WikiIslam:Sandbox/EDIT THIS PART: Difference between revisions

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(→‎Meteors as stars fired at devils: I am creating a longer page analysing the claim of stars being built as a protection against devils - please hide it until it is created (if not being done automatically). Thank you.)
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SAHIH MUSLIM 26:5538 'Abdullah. Ibn 'Abbas reported: A person from the Ansar who was amongst the Companions of Allah's Messenger (pbuh reported to me: As we were sitting during the night with Allah's Messenger (pbuh), a meteor shot gave a dazzling light. Allah's Messenger (pbuh) said: What did you say in the pre-Islamic days when there was such a shot (of meteor)? They said: Allah and His Messenger know best (the actual position), but we, however, used to say that that very night a great man had been born and a great man had died, whereupon Allah's Messenger pbuh) said: (These meteors) are shot neither at the death of anyone nor on the birth of anyone. Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, issues Command when He decides to do a thing. Then (the Angels) supporting the Throne sing His glory, then sing the dwellers of heaven who are near to them until this glory of God reaches them who are in the heaven of this world. Then those who are near the supporters of the Throne ask these supporters of the Throne: What your Lord has said? And they accordingly inform them what He says. Then the dwellers of heaven seek information from them until this information reaches the heaven of the world. In this process of transmission (the jinn snatches) what he manages to overhear and he carries it to his friends. And when the Angels see the jinn they attack them with meteors. If they narrate only which they manage to snatch that is correct but they alloy it with lies and make additions to it.
SAHIH MUSLIM 26:5538 'Abdullah. Ibn 'Abbas reported: A person from the Ansar who was amongst the Companions of Allah's Messenger (pbuh reported to me: As we were sitting during the night with Allah's Messenger (pbuh), a meteor shot gave a dazzling light. Allah's Messenger (pbuh) said: What did you say in the pre-Islamic days when there was such a shot (of meteor)? They said: Allah and His Messenger know best (the actual position), but we, however, used to say that that very night a great man had been born and a great man had died, whereupon Allah's Messenger pbuh) said: (These meteors) are shot neither at the death of anyone nor on the birth of anyone. Allah, the Exalted and Glorious, issues Command when He decides to do a thing. Then (the Angels) supporting the Throne sing His glory, then sing the dwellers of heaven who are near to them until this glory of God reaches them who are in the heaven of this world. Then those who are near the supporters of the Throne ask these supporters of the Throne: What your Lord has said? And they accordingly inform them what He says. Then the dwellers of heaven seek information from them until this information reaches the heaven of the world. In this process of transmission (the jinn snatches) what he manages to overhear and he carries it to his friends. And when the Angels see the jinn they attack them with meteors. If they narrate only which they manage to snatch that is correct but they alloy it with lies and make additions to it.


Other relevant verses are {{Quran|55|33-35}} (flame of fire and smoke, though a slightly different context) and Quran 72:8-9.
Other relevant verses are {{Quran|55|33-35}} (flame of fire and smoke, though a slightly different context) and {{Quran|72|8-9}} .


{{Quran|55|33-35}} O company of jinn and mankind, if you are able to pass beyond the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass. You will not pass except by authority [from Allah]. So which of the favors of your Lord would you deny? There will be sent upon you a flame of fire and smoke, and you will not defend yourselves.
{{Quote|{{Quran|55|33-35}}|O company of jinn and mankind, if you are able to pass beyond the regions of the heavens and the earth, then pass. You will not pass except by authority [from Allah]. So which of the favors of your Lord would you deny? There will be sent upon you a flame of fire and smoke, and you will not defend yourselves.}}{{Quote|{{Quran|72|8-9}}|And we have sought [to reach] the heaven but found it filled with powerful guards and burning flames. And we used to sit therein in positions for hearing, but whoever listens now will find a burning flame lying in wait for him.}}


{{Quran|72|8-9}} And we have sought [to reach] the heaven but found it filled with powerful guards and burning flames. And we used to sit therein in positions for hearing, but whoever listens now will find a burning flame lying in wait for him.
If the flaming missiles mentioned by the Quran are to be identified with meteors burning up in the Earth's atmosphere, this would locate the eavesdropping devils (or jinn) in the upper atmosphere too, which leaves no way for the (extremely distant) stars to serve as guards in this process as outlined in the verses.  
If the flaming missiles mentioned by the Quran are to be identified with meteors burning up in the Earth's atmosphere, this would locate the eavesdropping devils (or jinn) in the upper atmosphere too, which leaves no way for the (extremely distant) stars to serve as guards in this process as outlined in the verses. However, these verses would of course fit a relatively small universe as imagined by 7th century Arabs, in which a heavenly firmament is adorned with stars able to pelt shooting stars at any devils or jinn in their vicinity, seeming to cover interstellar distances in a flaming streak across the sky. This is further supported by Quran 21:32 which describes the heaven as a guarded ceiling.
 
However, these verses would of course fit a relatively small universe as imagined by 7th century Arabs, in which a heavenly firmament is adorned with stars able to pelt shooting stars at any devils or jinn in their vicinity, seeming to cover interstellar distances in a flaming streak across the sky. This is further supported by [https://quranx.com/21.32 Quran 21:32] which describes the heaven as a guarded ceiling.


Two alternative interpretations popular in modern times are that the Quran is referring to coronal mass ejections (large eruptions of charged matter from the sun or other stars), or cosmic rays (high energy, sub-atomic particles travelling through interstellar space). However, coronal mass ejections move slowly in cosmic terms, disperse over distance and do not come from surprise directions (Quran 37:8 states that the devils are pelted from every side, and pursued by a piercing flame if they escape with anything they overheard). Cosmic rays do not emit light as they travel through space and therefore nor could these be the flaming missiles of fire and smoke in the Quran.
Two alternative interpretations popular in modern times are that the Quran is referring to coronal mass ejections (large eruptions of charged matter from the sun or other stars), or cosmic rays (high energy, sub-atomic particles travelling through interstellar space). However, coronal mass ejections move slowly in cosmic terms, disperse over distance and do not come from surprise directions (Quran 37:8 states that the devils are pelted from every side, and pursued by a piercing flame if they escape with anything they overheard). Cosmic rays do not emit light as they travel through space and therefore nor could these be the flaming missiles of fire and smoke in the Quran.
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On a separate note, though stars are described as an ornament or beauty for the sky in Quran 37:6, Quran 37:60, and Quran 67:5, there are an estimated minimum c.100 septillion stars in the known universe[16], but only a few thousand are actually visible to the naked eye.[17]
On a separate note, though stars are described as an ornament or beauty for the sky in Quran 37:6, Quran 37:60, and Quran 67:5, there are an estimated minimum c.100 septillion stars in the known universe[16], but only a few thousand are actually visible to the naked eye.[17]
'''Meteors, meteorites and asteroids:'''
Clarifying the technical definitions again: Asteroids are rocky bodies in space found in space.
Meteors are objects that enter Earth’s atmosphere from space, which are typically pieces of dust no larger than a grain of rice, burn up before reaching the ground, though can be larger (meteorites refer to rocks that survive left over on Earth). As they vaporize, they leave behind the fiery trails sometimes called “shooting stars,” even though meteors are not really stars.
The source of meteors are asteroids, either directly by them being pulled out of the belt by Jupiter's gravity, then moving to the inner solar system where they collide with Earth (99.8% of them), or indirectly as they collide with other rocky objects, i.e. the moon or Mars (0.02% of them) which then come into Earths gravitational tug.
Other than the fact that these asteroids are not stars or 'star-like', but just rocks and metal with no light source, and therefore cannot accurately be said to match the description of 'lamps' - the most densely populated space for these is the asteroid belt.
This is problematic as despite there being many millions of objects in the asteroid belt, the average distance between them is ~600,000 miles (about 1 million km). Making them very difficult to use for a protection as the angels could only be close to a maximum of one at a time, having to move millions of miles to pick up more, leaving them unable to ward off one if they miss just once, or one coming after another at different points in time, or multiple using any flanking method. (The plural (devils) implies there are multiple devils/jinns. And this is supported by the fact they repeatedly come to the meetings, with the jinns being successful at stealing information in Quran 37:6-10, but unsuccessful in 72:8-9.)
Another problem arises in that they are said to be pursued with flame, however there is no oxygen in space, so you can't start a fire (or get smoke). Let alone by throwing a rock through space. They only burn in Earths atmosphere due to friction from travelling extremely fast in a vacuum which takes no energy, to being compressed by air in the atmosphere, rising the temperature and setting fire where there is oxygen.
The distance between Earth and the closest edge of the Belt is approximately a minimum ~179.5, to 329 million km (111.5 to 204.43 million mi). But of course, at any given time, part of the Asteroid Belt will be on the opposite side of the Sun relative to us as well, far, far further than that.
Therefore, for them to make a 'clear flame' by turning into meteors, this would have to be thrown a minimum ~179.5 million km / 111.5 million miles while the jinn are still in the Earths atmosphere, with the flame 'pursuing them' for only a tiny fraction of the process (<0.01%), adding to the problematic nature of these verses.
Stars:
Stars are an average 5 light years away from each other in our galaxy. For context, a light year is the distance light travels in one year, which at 186,000 miles/300,000 kilometres per second equals 5.88 trillion miles/9.46 trillion kilometres. This again makes them an odd choice for a protection/guard, with trillions of miles/kilometers of mostly empty space between them.
However these verses and story would of course fit a relatively small universe as imagined by 7th century Bedouins, with the stars appearing visible distances away from each other, and were assumed to be the same thing as 'shooting stars'/meteors, as it was interpretated at the time (including by many other cultures), and backed up by 'sahih' (authentic) hadith.
On a separate note, though stars are described as an ornament or beauty for the sky in Quran 37:6, Quran 37:60, and Quran 67:5, there are an estimated minimum c.100 septillion stars in the known universe, but only a few thousand are actually visible to the naked eye.




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