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User:CPO675/Sandbox 1: Difference between revisions
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*Scientific claim - Quran says absolutely nothing about different densities, hence no-one ever thought it did until many years after the discovery - Scientist William Hayes denouncing miracle claim | *Scientific claim - Quran says absolutely nothing about different densities, hence no-one ever thought it did until many years after the discovery - Scientist William Hayes denouncing miracle claim | ||
Whether the two seas mentioned in the Qur'an referred to these mythological seas or a more general inviolable barrier between bodies of salt and fresh water, critics argue that the verse in question is scientifically wrong. | Whether the two seas mentioned in the Qur'an referred to these mythological seas or a more general inviolable barrier between bodies of salt and fresh water, critics argue that the verse in question is scientifically wrong. | ||
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* Not actually named in Quran (only called a servant of God)- only hadith name him | * Not actually named in Quran (only called a servant of God)- only hadith name him | ||
* the [[The Islamic Whale|Islamic whale]] swimming in the ocean with Earth on it's back | * the [[The Islamic Whale|Islamic whale]] swimming in the ocean with Earth on it's back | ||
=== Islamic Views === | |||
'''Hadith''' | |||
In the two most authoritative hadith collections, we see in Sahih Bukhari that Muhammad is recorded as saying that when going into the seven heavens on a night journey (see [[Buraq]]), the rivers in paradise came to Earth via the Nile and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphrates Euphrates]. This clearly backs up the idea that fresh water comes in via a freshwater cosmic ocean | |||
{{Quote|{{Bukhari|4|54|429}}|...Then I was shown Sidrat-ul-Muntaha (i.e. a tree in the seventh heaven) and I saw its Nabk fruits which resembled the clay jugs of Hajr (i.e. a town in Arabia), and its leaves were like the ears of elephants, and four rivers originated at its root, two of them were apparent and two were hidden. I asked Gabriel about those rivers and he said, 'The two hidden rivers are in Paradise, and the apparent ones are the Nile and the Euphrates.'...}} | |||
And this idea is backed up in Sahih Muslim: | |||
{{Quote|{{Muslim|40|6807}}|Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying: Saihan, Jaihan, Euphrates and Nile are all among the rivers of Paradise.}} | |||
'''Commentaries''' | |||
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qurtubi Al-Qurtubi], a prominent Sunni Scholar | |||
{{Quote|{{cite web| url=https://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=1&tTafsirNo=5&tSoraNo=25&tAyahNo=53&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=1 | title=Tafsir al-Qurtabi 25:53}}|Ibn Abbas and Ibn Jubayr said: It refers to the ocean of the sky and the ocean of the earth. Ibn Abbas further explained: They meet each other every year, and between them is a barrier decreed by Allah. "And a barrier between them is forbidden to be crossed." It is forbidden for the salty water to mix with the sweet water or for the sweet water to become salty.}} | |||
Similarly Ibn Kathir | |||
later commentaries after the flat earth model was rejected by astronomers state this barrier refers to land | |||
{{Quote|2=(And it is He Who has let free the two seas, this is palatable and sweet, and that is salty and bitter;) means, He has created the two kinds of water, sweet and salty. The sweet water is like that in rivers, springs and wells, which is fresh, sweet, palatable water. This was the view of Ibn Jurayj and of Ibn Jarir, and this is the meaning without a doubt, for nowhere in creation is there a sea which is fresh and sweet. Allah has told us about reality so that His servants may realize His blessings to them and give thanks to Him. The sweet water is that which flows amidst people. Allah has portioned it out among His creatures according to their needs; rivers and springs in every land, according to what they need for themselves and their lands.... | |||
..<b>(a barrier) means a partition, which is dry land.</b>}} | |||
This is obviously incorrect as coral doesn't form in fresh water, let alone springs. And the rivers are especially not connected - so is not a barrier between two seas? | |||
=== Biblical literature === | |||
The story of Moses and his servant is one of four stories in Surah al-Kahf. Modern academic scholarship has identified antecedents of each story in the lore of late antiquity. This particular story is almost unanimously considered to derive from a legend about Alexander the Great and his search for the water of life. For details see the section on the four stories in Surah al-Kahf in the article [[Parallels Between the Qur'an and Late Antique Judeo-Christian Literature]]. | |||
=== Other religions an cosmic waters === | === Other religions an cosmic waters === | ||