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=== Introduction === | === Introduction === | ||
The Quran refers to two different bodies of water, emphasising there is one sweet and one fresh, that there is a batter between them. Both early (and medieval Muslims) (cite), and modern Academic scholarship<ref>Damien Janos (2012) [https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0048721X.2012.642573 Qur’ānic cosmography in its historical perspective: some notes on the formation of a religious worldview], Religion, 42:2, 215-231, DOI: 10.1080/0048721X.2012.642573</ref>, have identified this with an ancient belief of there being a cosmic ocean of water surrounding the world. (Also Tommaso Tesei Some Cosmological Notions from Late Antiquity in Q 18:60–65: The Quran in Light of Its Cultural Context https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7817/jameroriesoci.135.1.19) | The Quran refers to two different bodies of water, emphasising there is one sweet and one fresh, that there is a batter between them. Both early (and medieval Muslims) (cite), and modern Academic scholarship<ref>Damien Janos (2012) [https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/0048721X.2012.642573 Qur’ānic cosmography in its historical perspective: some notes on the formation of a religious worldview], Religion, 42:2, 215-231, DOI: 10.1080/0048721X.2012.642573</ref>, have identified this with an ancient belief of there being a cosmic ocean of water surrounding the world. (Also Tommaso Tesei Some Cosmological Notions from Late Antiquity in Q 18:60–65: The Quran in Light of Its Cultural Context https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7817/jameroriesoci.135.1.19) Other classical scholars have attributed it to the way fresh water bodies of water are separate to the salty seas and oceans in general.<ref>Tasfir Ibn Kathir on [https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/25.51 verses 25:51-54]</ref><ref>Tafsir Al-Jalalayn on [https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Jalal/25.53 verse 25:53]</ref> | ||
Some modern Muslims have tried to reconcile the relevant verses with natural phenomena, including estuaries meeting the sea, and different seas having different salt levels. However critics do not believe the verses accurately describe this, and many actually conflict with the description. | Some modern Muslims have tried to reconcile the relevant verses with natural phenomena, including estuaries meeting the sea, and different seas having different salt levels. However critics do not believe the verses accurately describe this, and many actually conflict with the description. | ||
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* This description could easily apply to someone sailing nearby or over one of these, as the colours are often different (as seen in the image X), leading people to assu<nowiki/>me there was an actual barrier between the two waters, and assuming they didn't mix - as there's no science about mixing bodies of water in the barrier stated in the Quran verses. Hence no-body was able to discover anything new from the verse, and as observable (and arguably incorrect as we will discuss below), it is certainly not a miracle. | * This description could easily apply to someone sailing nearby or over one of these, as the colours are often different (as seen in the image X), leading people to assu<nowiki/>me there was an actual barrier between the two waters, and assuming they didn't mix - as there's no science about mixing bodies of water in the barrier stated in the Quran verses. Hence no-body was able to discover anything new from the verse, and as observable (and arguably incorrect as we will discuss below), it is certainly not a miracle. | ||
* Density of salt water is more than freshwater. This was first discovered by Aristotle. “The drinkable, sweet water, then, is light and is all of it drawn up: the salt <nowiki/>water is heavy and remains behind.” -Aristotle (382 BC to 322 BC)<ref>[https://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/meteorology.2.ii.html Meteorology.] Aristotle. ~350BC</ref> | * - such as this kind of sea https://ecobnb.com/blog/2018/11/denmark-two-seas/ - explore - two salty bodies of water? | ||
* Density of salt water is more than freshwater.<nowiki/> This was first discovered by Aristotle. “The drinkable, sweet water, then, is light and is all of it drawn up: the salt <nowiki/>water is heavy and remains behind.” -Aristotle (382 BC to 322 BC)<ref>[https://classics.mit.edu/Aristotle/meteorology.2.ii.html Meteorology.] Aristotle. ~350BC</ref> | |||
* There are many different types of estuaries (e.g. salt wedge, Fjord-type, Slightly Stratified - you can read about them [https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/tutorial_estuaries/est05_circulation.html here]), however despite what it may look like on<nowiki/> the surface they all mix to varying degrees - which is not a logic inference of having a barrier between them that they cannot pass<nowiki/>https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/tutorial_estuaries/est05_circulation.html | * There are many different types of estuaries (e.g. salt wedge, Fjord-type, Slightly Stratified - you can read about them [https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/tutorial_estuaries/est05_circulation.html here]), however despite what it may look like on<nowiki/> the surface they all mix to varying degrees - which is not a logic inference of having a barrier between them that they cannot pass<nowiki/>https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/tutorial_estuaries/est05_circulation.html | ||
* In {{Quran|25|53}} We are told that there are specifically the '''two seas(l-baḥrayni)''', one freshwater (palatable and sweet), and one seawater (salt and bitter), and that there is a barrier that it is forbidden to be pass. Yet this happens in many places (i.e. more than two) all across the world - why would it be talking about two seas with the definite 'al' particle (arguably it happens with all sweet and salty water/less dense water). Why is would be talking about two specific bodies of water, which are repeatedly referred to when so may other things - this does make sense in its historical context | * In {{Quran|25|53}} We are told that there are specifically the '''two seas(l-baḥrayni)''', one freshwater (palatable and sweet), and one seawater (salt and bitter), and that there is a barrier that it is forbidden to be pass. Yet this happens in many places (i.e. more than two) all across the world - why would it be talking about two seas with the definite 'al' particle (arguably it happens with all sweet and salty water/less dense water). Why is would be talking about two specific bodies of water, which are repeatedly referred to when so may other things - this does make sense in its historical context | ||
* The sea isn't permanently there, they completely change over time. Even the estuaries didn't exist when the Earth was made, so God letting the two bodies going free and a permanent barrier if false. | * The sea isn't permanently there, they completely change over time. Even the estuaries didn't exist when the Earth was made, so God letting the two bodies going free and a permanent barrier if false. | ||
* It doesn't say riverنھر (Nahar) and sea, which would have been a more accurate way to describe it if the mixing zone isn't part of either sea being mentioned but a 'barrier' - ''although to be fair every large body of water was referred to using this word in classical Arabic''. Also arguably 3 bodies of water, it could have stated something along the lines of one is mixed blocking the others - which would have been a closer description to a barrier | * It doesn't say riverنھر (Nahar) and sea, which would have been a more accurate way to describe it if the mixing zone isn't part of either sea being mentioned but a 'barrier' - ''although to be fair every large body of water was referred to using this word in classical Arabic''. Also arguably 3 bodies of water, it could have stated something along the lines of one is mixed blocking the others - which would have been a closer description to a barrier. Should describe one as a river in this case | ||
* Estuary water sweet and palatable or filled with dirt? Estuary water often is salty as well (not just sweet), and dirty. Not an accurate description<ref>[https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/tutorial_estuaries/est01_whatis.html#:~:text=The%20mixture%20of%20seawater%20and,%2C%20weather%2C%20or%20other%20factors. What is an Estuary?] National Ocean Service. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration</ref> | * Estuary water sweet and palatable or filled with dirt? Estuary water often is salty as well (not just sweet), and dirty. Not an accurate description<ref>[https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/tutorial_estuaries/est01_whatis.html#:~:text=The%20mixture%20of%20seawater%20and,%2C%20weather%2C%20or%20other%20factors. What is an Estuary?] National Ocean Service. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration</ref> | ||
* | * | ||
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* For the second point about the difference between the Atlantic and Mediterranean oceans not mixing , this is not true, as Piers Chapman - Oceanography - Texas A&M University writes in Water Encyclopaedia Ocean Mixing http://www.waterencyclopedia.com/Mi-Oc/Ocean-Mixing.html | * For the second point about the difference between the Atlantic and Mediterranean oceans not mixing , this is not true, as Piers Chapman - Oceanography - Texas A&M University writes in Water Encyclopaedia Ocean Mixing http://www.waterencyclopedia.com/Mi-Oc/Ocean-Mixing.html | ||
* | *BBC Science focus article on Atlantic and Pacific oceans mixing, and that previous videos showing non-mixing are incorrect https://www.sciencefocus.com/planet-earth/is-it-true-that-the-pacific-and-atlantic-oceans-dont-mix | ||
=== Refutation of the claim main points === | === Refutation of the claim main points === | ||
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[https://islamqa.info/en/answers/165094/tafseer-of-the-verse-he-has-let-loose-the-two-seas-the-salt-water-and-the-sweet-meeting-together-between-them-is-a-barrier-which-none-of-them-can-transgress-ar-rahmaan-5519-20 (https://islamqa.info/en/answers/165094/tafseer-of-the-verse-he-has-let-loose-the-two-seas-the-salt-water-and-the-sweet-meeting-together-between-them-is-a-barrier-which-none-of-them-can-transgress-ar-rahmaan-5519-20]) | [https://islamqa.info/en/answers/165094/tafseer-of-the-verse-he-has-let-loose-the-two-seas-the-salt-water-and-the-sweet-meeting-together-between-them-is-a-barrier-which-none-of-them-can-transgress-ar-rahmaan-5519-20 (https://islamqa.info/en/answers/165094/tafseer-of-the-verse-he-has-let-loose-the-two-seas-the-salt-water-and-the-sweet-meeting-together-between-them-is-a-barrier-which-none-of-them-can-transgress-ar-rahmaan-5519-20]) | ||
=== Biblical literature === | === The Biblical and Judeo-Christian background literature === | ||
The story of Moses and his servant is one of four stories in Surah al-Kahf. Modern academic scholarship has identified antecedents of each story in the lore of late antiquity. This particular story is almost unanimously considered to derive from a legend about Alexander the Great and his search for the water of life. For details see the section on the four stories in Surah al-Kahf in the article [[Parallels Between the Qur'an and Late Antique Judeo-Christian Literature]]. | The story of Moses and his servant is one of four stories in Surah al-Kahf. Modern academic scholarship has identified antecedents of each story in the lore of late antiquity. This particular story is almost unanimously considered to derive from a legend about Alexander the Great and his search for the water of life. For details see the section on the four stories in Surah al-Kahf in the article [[Parallels Between the Qur'an and Late Antique Judeo-Christian Literature]]. | ||