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User talk:Saggy: Difference between revisions
Actually I take back previous edit summary. restore comment and respond
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(Actually I take back previous edit summary. restore comment and respond) |
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:::::::''"My point is that it ONLY benefits their propaganda"'' - Again they are a minority. The other side effect is letting the rest of the Muslims know that these contradictions exist. Most Muslims view hadiths as holy. I would say that they would have to deal with the contradiction when they see it and it creates a challenge for them. | :::::::''"My point is that it ONLY benefits their propaganda"'' - Again they are a minority. The other side effect is letting the rest of the Muslims know that these contradictions exist. Most Muslims view hadiths as holy. I would say that they would have to deal with the contradiction when they see it and it creates a challenge for them. | ||
::::::: My main point here again is that cases can be argued against equally. Its a Sandbox page and people have the right to work on a Sandbox which later may or may not be approved (as long its not an obvious content violation). --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 05:13, 11 April 2014 (PDT) | ::::::: My main point here again is that cases can be argued against equally. Its a Sandbox page and people have the right to work on a Sandbox which later may or may not be approved (as long its not an obvious content violation). --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 05:13, 11 April 2014 (PDT) | ||
::::::::You have not dealt with anything I've actually said, so no they can't be argued against equally. I've mentioned several times why I deleted that page from the sandbox but you continue acting like I never explained. If that is how you get your way in a discussion, then it's very effective. Your opinion on Bukhari's criteria is irrelevant. Mat'n is a well known thing. Hence, contradictions between the Qur'an and certain hadith will not effect mainstream Islam in the slightest. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 05:09, 11 April 2014 (PDT) | ::::::::You have not dealt with anything I've actually said, so no they can't be argued against equally. I've mentioned several times why I deleted that page from the sandbox but you continue acting like I never explained. If that is how you get your way in a discussion, then it's very effective. Your opinion on Bukhari's criteria is irrelevant. Mat'n is a well known thing. Hence, contradictions between the Qur'an and certain hadith will not effect mainstream Islam in the slightest. And wth, you're telling editors to stay away from me now? The discussion we're having now isn't even on my talk page, so maybe you should have considered a more appropriate time or place to mention this or considered how it would look to others? [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 05:09, 11 April 2014 (PDT) | ||
::::::::::Although you're right my comment could have been made at a better time (so ok, I apologize again for making it at the wrong time), I never asked anyone to stay away from you. You had removed some comments from your own talk page earlier if you recall [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Sahab&diff=106769&oldid=106768] so I was stressing the point that others should use the forum page for general issues and not someone's talk page. | |||
::::::::::I'm asking everyone to follow talk page guidelines and core principles [[WikiIslam:Core_Principles|community principles]] and assume good faith. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 12:12, 13 April 2014 (PDT) | |||
:::::::::"Matn"'s definition on Wikipedia doesnt mention Bukhari or the contradiction issue, why is that? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_studies#Sanad_and_matn]. "text of the report" =matn is what I'm seeing, not a contradiction with the Quran issue. Are there are sources to support what Matn means? As I mentioned, the issue of deletion arises at the point of review when something is being considered for main space but not before that when it is in a temporary condition (in the Sandbox). Saggy knows it may or may not be approved. As for whether you're right or I'm right, I've shown that points can be made on both sides. Lets do that full debate when the time comes for a review of that piece. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 05:23, 11 April 2014 (PDT) | :::::::::"Matn"'s definition on Wikipedia doesnt mention Bukhari or the contradiction issue, why is that? [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith_studies#Sanad_and_matn]. "text of the report" =matn is what I'm seeing, not a contradiction with the Quran issue. Are there are sources to support what Matn means? As I mentioned, the issue of deletion arises at the point of review when something is being considered for main space but not before that when it is in a temporary condition (in the Sandbox). Saggy knows it may or may not be approved. As for whether you're right or I'm right, I've shown that points can be made on both sides. Lets do that full debate when the time comes for a review of that piece. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 05:23, 11 April 2014 (PDT) | ||
::::::::::To hightlight it again our page [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muhammads_Miracles] that you pointed to in the begining and you refered to it again, claims ''"His third criteria is mat'n, i.e. the content of a narration must not be in contradiction with the Qur'an."'', but there's no reference for that. According to other sources Matn means "text of the hadith", not "must not be in contradiction with the Quran". Bukhari's criteria of this contradiction cannot apply to other Hadith scholars (it is his own personal opinion). And even if we were to assume such a criteria, we are faced by the question: Is a Sahih hadith being declared invalid simply because of the contradiction? Why was it considered in the first place if it was actually invalid? The hadith was considered authentic because the events narrated actually happened. | ::::::::::To hightlight it again our page [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muhammads_Miracles] that you pointed to in the begining and you refered to it again, claims ''"His third criteria is mat'n, i.e. the content of a narration must not be in contradiction with the Qur'an."'', but there's no reference for that. According to other sources Matn means "text of the hadith", not "must not be in contradiction with the Quran". Bukhari's criteria of this contradiction cannot apply to other Hadith scholars (it is his own personal opinion). And even if we were to assume such a criteria, we are faced by the question: Is a Sahih hadith being declared invalid simply because of the contradiction? Why was it considered in the first place if it was actually invalid? The hadith was considered authentic because the events narrated actually happened. | ||