WikiIslam - User contributions [en]

User talk:Axius

2015-10-03T17:58:40Z

92.12.197.254: /* Authorise */

[[Image:Crystal Clear action edit add.png|15px]] {{plainlink|url={{SERVER}}/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Axius&action=edit&section=new '''Leave a message'''}}

[[User talk:Axius/Archive]]

== Testimonies and private emails ==

Hi AX. When someone submits a new testimony, could you check to see if they have left an email at the bottom? It is to do with [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Special:Form/newapostate#Notes Notes #1] on the submission form that says:

:''"Consider providing a contact email address at the bottom of your testimony. If an email address is not submitted, then there may be difficulty in getting information altered/removed later on if such a request is made. Your email address will be wiped from the page history before being added to the wiki mainspace, meaning only administrators will be able to view it."''

The best thing to do is delete the email address and then wipe it from the history with an explanation (e.g. "Email (as per Notes #1 on the form)") so we know where to look if they ever contact us. These emails could be very private and I don't think they should be left out in the public for too long. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 01:51, 6 December 2014 (PST)
:Yea you're right they should not be left there for long. I'll try to keep an eye on it. We do database compaction sometimes so that removes the deleted page so maybe an option is to keep the emails locally on the computer or saved in an email account in a draft email, or we just remove the requirement of adding the email, or we ask them to send us an email when they submit their testimony so we have it privately on record. That will be the easiest for us. On another note could you check your email? --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 04:42, 6 December 2014 (PST)
::Thanks Ax, I'm reading it now. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 07:13, 6 December 2014 (PST)

== Dsarkosky ==

Hi Ax. That thing about "Porkistani/P*ki Muslims" was a mistake but not about 911. It's a racial slur (akin to the "N" word for blacks) against South Asians. This guy is clearly not an Arab, because an Arab would know the difference between my race and his. Mixing up Arabs with South Asians does happen, but it's usually troglodytes of European ancestry that do it. And it is mostly them who equate "p*ki" with "Muslim". I just thought I'd make you aware because I think America is the exception, and that word is not considered an insult over there. So obviously anything submitted to the site (even comments on talk pages) that contains that word would be going against the policies. Actually, any insults at all against race/ethnicity/nationality (e.g. "Porkistani") is against the policies.

Anyways, that "testimony" as a whole is crazy. Wow. So many calls for genocide in such a few amount of words. And lol at the "You need to eat bacon... to prove that you are no longer a Muslim" line. I'm a vegan, so with that line of thinking, it would mean that I must still be an under-cover Muslim. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 19:42, 3 January 2015 (PST)
:LOL. I just did an IP search and I was right. Whoever submitted that testimony did it from Western Europe. That's a long way from Oman (where he claims to originate) and Hong Kong (where he claims to now live). [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 19:49, 3 January 2015 (PST)
::Yea he mixed them up (said it was Pakistanis who did 9/11 when it was mostly people from Saudi arabia). Yea the bacon/pork requirement was strange. Oh I see so the IP did not match the locations. Good catch. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 12:37, 4 January 2015 (PST)

==Mia Khalifa==
Hi Axius, can we have an article on Mia Khalifa? She is in the news.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 10:53, 10 January 2015 (PST)
:If it was appropriate for the site sure, but we would need someone to do it. According to Wikipedia she is/was not a Muslim ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mia_Khalifa] unverified) so if its thats true we would probably not have the article. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 18:52, 10 January 2015 (PST)
::Yeah. Apparently, she was born into a Muslim family but is a Christian now. So a page about a porn star who was simply born to Muslims wouldn't be appropriate. There are a lot of Middle-Eastern pornstars, and it's a fair bet that the majority of them are from a Muslim background. This is nothing extraordinary. At best, the Freedom of Speech (links) page should have a link added under the US section. But nothing more. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 01:57, 11 January 2015 (PST)

== Muhammad and Aisha Task ==

Hi Ax. I don't understand why you added [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=WikiIslam:Tasks&curid=7002&diff=111648&oldid=111431 this] task. I think it is a pretty terrible idea. Those two pages have two distinct purposes, so merging them makes no sense. It would in fact make it harder for readers to use to counter Muslim arguments, make the page ridiculously long, AND make our other pedophilia pages redundant (if you want to merge the "Refutation of Modern Apologetics Against Aisha's Age" with the "Responses to Apologetics: Muhammad and Aisha" page, then why not also merge the [[Aisha_Age_of_Consummation|Aisha's Age of Consummation]]" page with the "Responses to Apologetics: Muhammad and Aisha" page? It's the exact same situation).

The [[Refutation_of_Modern_Apologetics_Against_Aishas_Age|Refutation of Modern Apologetics Against Aisha's Age]] page refutes only a single, stand-alone apologetic argument. This argument is basically, '''"Some Islamic sources say Aisha was aged 12, 14, 15, 17, 18 and 21 when Muhammad had sex with her"'''. If you look at the [[Responses_to_Apologetics_-_Muhammad_and_Aisha|Responses to Apologetics: Muhammad and Aisha]] page, this is [[Responses_to_Apologetics_-_Muhammad_and_Aisha#Some_Islamic_sources_say_Aisha_was_aged_12.2C_14.2C_15.2C_17.2C_18_and_21_when_Muhammad_had_sex_with_her|argument number six]]. So basically what your new task is saying is to copy/paste that detailed, long and well-crafted stand-alone article under argument number six. I don't understand why you would even consider that a viable option. That one argument (that the hadith say Aisha was older) is practically as long as the page you want to merge it with, and that page contains 20+ different arguments.

Think about it from a reader's view: that's like a science teacher (WikiIslam) having a creationist student (Muslim) question one single aspect of evolutionary theory (Muhammad's pedophilia), but rather than give a detailed rebuttal to that single objection (Aisha's age according to hadith), the teacher slaps a 1000 page encyclopedia about the evolutionary theory in front of him and tells him to find the answer in there somewhere.

And like I mentioned earlier, merging this article also begs the question; why not merge every page concerning Mo and Aisha into that one page? [[Responses_to_Apologetics_-_Muhammad_and_Aisha#The_hadiths_do_not_say_Muhammad_had_sex_with_Aisha_when_she_was_9._They_have_been_poorly_translated|Argument number 4]] is '''"The hadiths do not say Muhammad had sex with Aisha when she was 9. They have been poorly translated"''', so why not delete the "[[The Meaning of Consummate]]" page and copy/paste that into "Responses to Apologetics: Muhammad and Aisha" too? [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 21:29, 1 March 2015 (PST)
:The only reason I can think of is that both titles have similar words in them ("Refutation/Response" and "Apologetics"). If that's the case, then only a name change is needed to more accurately reflect the topics of the pages. TBH not only does "Refutation of Modern Apologetics Against Aisha's Age" need its name changed, but so does the "Aisha's Age of Consummation" page. I remember you previously said you preferred to keep the title as it is simply because that's an early article. However, the "Aisha's Age of Consummation" page has a misleading title as its content is not really about Aisha's age of consummation. It's about whether or not Mo can be classed as a pedophile. "Refutation of Modern Apologetics Against Aisha's Age" should be renamed "Aisha's Age of Consummation" because that IS the actual topic of the page. And "Aisha's Age of Consummation" should be renamed "Muhammad and Pedophilia" or something like that. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 21:42, 1 March 2015 (PST)
::"Muhammad and the Clinical Definition of Pedophilia" is a good name. I'll rename these pages when I can. There is a fair bit of redirecting that I will also have to do. Also wanted to add that if I am correct about the reason, then as administrators we must base our decisions off more than a cursory glance at the title of a page. A merge of those two pages would have big repercussions, not least to the logical structure and quality of the site. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 21:49, 1 March 2015 (PST)
:::Oh. Yea I totally missed that the title was "Responses to ... ''Aisha's Age''". So it was only the issue of her age for that title. I think whoever was doing the task would have noticed this before they started the task. Thanks for noticing that. I'll look into this again later.
:::Thanks for fixing those redirects. I wish there was a bot that could fix it. I'll make that a task in a new section for things that could be done by bots. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 02:19, 2 March 2015 (PST)
::::Cool. Yeah, sometimes finding where exactly the inline links are within a page can be hard. You have to go over the page text a couple of times before noticing it. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 02:36, 2 March 2015 (PST)
:::::I do a CTRL-F for the link's partial/full name or the page's name. Google chrome has good search highlighting features. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 03:10, 2 March 2015 (PST)
::::::Thanks Ax. I just tried that and it works great. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 16:12, 2 March 2015 (PST)

== About my modifications ==

Webcitation just failed caching my link. My other links'cache are ok.
:Oh. Yea it failed mine too for that same link. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 05:23, 14 March 2015 (PDT)

::Heitri2. It does that on pages because they respect the "norobot" txt or something. On the other hand, Archive.is archives the page regardless, so that site can be used instead. We mention both services [[WikiIslam:Citing_Sources#Archived_Links|here]]. And really, this information should be known to editors before they start editing links in pages. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 15:44, 14 March 2015 (PDT)

==Finished Translating Health effects Dress==

Hi! I think I've finished translating the article [[Health Effects of Islamic Dress]] into Spanish as [[WikiIslam:Sandbox/Efectos sobre la Salud de la Vestimenta Islámica]]. Any suggestions will be welcomed for next tasks. Cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Charles69|Charles69]] ([[User talk:Charles69|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Charles69|contribs]]) {{#if:| |}} ([[WikiIslam:Signatures#Signing_Posts|Remember to sign your comments]]) 
:Excellent. Thanks! I will wait for Sahab for finalizing this. [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/72_Virgins 72 virgins] is a great choice and any others from the [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Translations#Articles_to_Translate list]
:Sahab, help! I would try to do it but I'll miss some [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/User_talk:Sahab#Translation_steps steps.] --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 05:34, 18 March 2015 (PDT)
:I'll go for those chicks ;).--[[User:Charles69|Charles69]] ([[User talk:Charles69|talk]]) 05:57, 18 March 2015 (PDT)

== QURAN ERRORS ==

Quran verse describes the sun and the moon in parallel orbits, as Quran verse 36:40 says, "It is not allowable for the sun to reach the moon, nor does the night overtake the day, but each, in an orbit, is swimming."
'''Quran never ever said that, the earth moves or travels.'''

See Also: http://www.islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/Erroneous-Science-and-Contradictions-in-Quran.htm AND http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Qur%27anic_scientific_foreknowledge (THIS SITE EXPLAINS THE CLAIMED FOREKNOWLEDE IS FALSE AND ALSO GIVES REFERENCES TO OTHER SITES)--[[User:AAA|AAA]] ([[User talk:AAA|talk]]) 15:27, 1 June 2015 (PDT)
:We have this article on the topic. Check it out: [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Geocentrism_and_the_Quran].
:Thanks for the links. I did not know about the "heavy clouds" errors in the Quran. I'll add it to our tasks page to review and add if suitable. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 19:34, 1 June 2015 (PDT)

::Islam says that even the almighty Allah can change his mind. It's contradictory because Islam claims Allah knows and creates everything.--[[User:AAA|AAA]] ([[User talk:AAA|talk]]) 10:27, 5 July 2015 (PDT)

== Vacuum ==

*Dr. Keith Moore and the Islamic additions (in Uzbek)

:Hi! How are you doing? Excuse my ignorance, I'm having trouble with the placement of this quote. Please, help[http://s17.postimg.org/5je8jiv7j/quote_move.jpg] Source: [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Doktor_Keyt_Mur_va_Islomiy_embriologiya] --[[User:Vacuum|Vacuum]] ([[User talk:Vacuum|talk]]) 20:18, 13 June 2015 :(PDT)
::Sorry I've been more busy than usual. Give me a few days and I'll look into it. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 14:09, 14 June 2015 (PDT)
:::I got it. Thank you. --[[User:Vacuum|Vacuum]] ([[User talk:Vacuum|talk]]) 05:53, 15 June 2015 (PDT)

* Ideas

:I think we should create a (hub) page on [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareidolia/ Pareidolia] and attach references to Islamic "sign miracles", such as [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Praying_Tree]; [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Trees_Tomatoes_and_Bronchi_Saying_Shahadah]; [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Allah_Written_In_or_On_Various_Things]; --[[User:Vacuum|Vacuum]] ([[User talk:Vacuum|talk]]) 09:45, 16 June 2015 (PDT)
::We have it: [[Pareidolia]]. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 02:26, 24 June 2015 (PDT)

== Sun is folded claim ==

Hi again. I went through tafsirs for "The Sun is folded up/it is flat disk" claim which was challenged by somebody on the scientific errors page some time ago. The tafsirs make even more errors on this topic [http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=109&tSoraNo=81&tAyahNo=1&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2] [http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1387&Itemid=137]. So this can go into the QHS article? and link the relevant section of Scientific Errors in Quran to it? [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 01:45, 26 July 2015 (PDT)
:You can add it to the Tasks page or a Sandbox page. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 06:47, 26 July 2015 (PDT)

== Spanish translations ==

Hi! I asked this to Sahab before but since he has been inactive, I ask you to check these two articles already finished: [[WikiIslam:Sandbox:Versos coránicos malinterpretados|Misinterpreted Qur'anic Verses]] and [[WikiIslam:Sandbox/Pedofilia en el Corán|Pedophilia in the Qur'an]]. Thanks! [[User:Aelu|Aelu]] ([[User talk:Aelu|talk]]) 09:03, 28 August 2015 (PDT)
:I probably didnt do as good as a job that Sahab does but I think I got it right: [[Pedofilia en el Corán]] and [[Versos coránicos malinterpretados]]. Thank you!
:I noticed these two words spelled differently. I assume thats how its supposed to be: Coránicas [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Art%C3%ADculos_en_espa%C3%B1ol_-_Articles_in_Spanish] 2nd bullet / coránicos [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Versos_cor%C3%A1nicos_malinterpretados] (also note, small capitals is used for the 2nd word). --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 17:41, 28 August 2015 (PDT)
::Yeah, they're spelled correctly, and thank you heheh :) -[[User:Aelu|Aelu]] ([[User talk:Aelu|talk]]) 16:24, 29 August 2015 (PDT)

== Italian==

Hi Axius, I've translated a new article, it's the "fastest growing religion".
:Ok. thanks. I think it needs this section [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Le_72_vergini#Vedi_anche Vedi anche] to be updated like other articles. Also it needs the Italian category.

:Also I think this section is not complete [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/La_religione_che_cresce_di_pi%C3%B9#Analisi]. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 10:40, 19 September 2015 (PDT)

Hi Axius, I just amended the two articles, but I don't know how to translate the short phrase near the hub content in these articles, in the section "Vedi anche"...
Thank you very much for underlining my errors and oversights.
:Ok. I made a few other [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=La_religione_che_cresce_di_pi%C3%B9&type=revision&diff=112971&oldid=112966 fixes]. I will add these steps to the Check-list. I was able to see the fixes after looking at another previously translated [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Le_72_vergini article] and comparing the main elements (headings, formatting etc).
:I have linked the article in the various places now (main page, Italian articles and added a link from the English article).
:For References, is it "Riferimenti" or "Referenze"? The first term is used here [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Le_72_vergini]. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 13:29, 20 September 2015 (PDT)

Hi, both of the terms could be used, but in this case it's better to use "Riferimenti". I'll use it in future articles.
I've also translated the article of "Taqiyya". but I can't translate the "Lying (Primary Sources)" of that page.
But.. it seems that I've accidentaly deleted (?) the original in english...
:The Italian version is saved and it can be moved into a new title called [[Taqiyya-it]] (following the example of [[Sunnah-fr]]). I have created the new page now.
:For 'Lying (Primary Sources)' we can make a new heading called 'Inglese' and list the EN link there. I did that too. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 16:19, 21 September 2015 (PDT)

== Translation of Pagan origins of Islam ==

Hi, I translate the article "Pagan Origins of Islam" here in my sandbox : http://wikiislam.net/wiki/User:Maxime/Sandbox_1, if you can tell me if the article is good or to correct, thanks. --[[User:Maxime|Maxime]] ([[User talk:Maxime|talk]]) 13:22, 19 September 2015 (PDT)
:Looks good, I made a few fixes [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=User%3AMaxime%2FSandbox_1&type=revision&diff=112978&oldid=112956 diff]. I added the translation links and category. I also changed the 'Références' heading after seeing thats the word used in a previous translation. Is that correct, or should it be 'References'?
: Let me know the final Page title and I will move it to the new title and make the various links. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 13:55, 20 September 2015 (PDT)
::Hi, yes you were right to correct "Reference" to "Références", I made the last corrections to franchify the whole article. It is now ready and the title of translation will be simply "Les origines païennes de l'Islam", thanks. --[[User:Maxime|Maxime]] ([[User talk:Maxime|talk]]) 05:20, 21 September 2015 (PDT)
:::Ok. I created the page and linked it now. Thank you! --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 16:34, 21 September 2015 (PDT)
==Authorise==
Please authorise my edit here: http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=Rape_in_Islam&action=history

I added a ref and archived it. |You will find it useful--[[Special:Contributions/92.12.197.254|92.12.197.254]] 11:26, 27 September 2015 (PDT)
:Does that hadith add something new to that page? I see there are other hadiths that mention the same kind of thing (an explanation about 4:24). So could you go over the page and look at the existing sources and compare it to the hadith (Sunan Abu Dawud - Book 12, Hadith 110) you're linking? --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 14:40, 27 September 2015 (PDT)
:::That hadith was missing the source and translation. I gave a reference. Thats all--[[Special:Contributions/92.12.197.254|92.12.197.254]] 10:58, 3 October 2015 (PDT)

User talk:Axius

2015-09-27T18:26:48Z

92.12.197.254: /* Translation of Pagan origins of Islam */

Rape in Islamic Law

2015-09-27T18:24:33Z

92.12.197.254: /* Context */ added a ref

{{Quote|1=

{{cite web quotebox|url= http://islamqa.info/en/10382|title= Ruling on having intercourse with a slave woman when one has a wife|publisher= Islam Q&A, Fatwa No. 10382|author= |date= November 24, 2005|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/10382&date=2012-01-17|deadurl=no}}|2=Islam allows a man to have intercourse with his slave woman, whether he has a wife or wives or he is not married...Whoever regards that as haraam is a sinner who is going against the consensus of the scholars. }}

==Definitions==

===Rape===

{{Quote|1=[{{Reference archive|1=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/rape|2=2012-02-17}} Rape] Dictionary.com|2='''rape''' [reyp] '''''noun, verb,'' raped, rap·ing.'''
'''''noun'''''

# the unlawful compelling of a person through physical force or duress to have sexual intercourse.}}

====Duress====

{{Quote|1=[{{Reference archive|1=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duress|2=2012-02-17}} Duress] Wikipedia|2=In jurisprudence, duress or coercion refers to a situation whereby a person performs an act as a result of violence, threat or other pressure against the person. Black's Law Dictionary (6th ed.) defines duress as "any unlawful threat or coercion used... to induce another to act [or not act] in a manner [they] otherwise would not [or would]". Duress is pressure exerted upon a person to coerce that person to perform an act that he or she ordinarily would not perform. The notion of duress must be distinguished both from undue influence in the civil law and from necessity.

Duress has two aspects. One is that it negates the person's consent to an act, such as sexual activity or the entering into a contract; or, secondly, as a possible legal defense or justification to an otherwise unlawful act.<ref>Gaines, Larry; Miller, LeRoy (2006). Criminal Justice In Action: The Core. Thomson/Wadsworth. ISBN 0-495-00305-0.</ref> A defendant utilizing the duress defense admits to breaking the law, but claims that he/she is not liable because, even though the act broke the law, it was only performed because of extreme unlawful pressure.<ref>[http://www.pi1stclass.com/glossary.htm 1st Class Investigations Glossary]</ref> In criminal law, a duress defense is similar to a plea of guilty, admitting partial culpability, so that if the defense is not accepted then the criminal act is admitted.

Duress or coercion can also be raised in an allegation of rape or sexual assault to negate a defense of consent on the part of the person making the allegation.}}

==Qur'an==

There is no equivalent term for ‘[[rape]]’ in the [[Qur'an]]. Likewise, there is not a single verse in the Qur'an which even remotely discourages forced sex. In contrast, there are several verses in this book which give the green light to rape and other sexual crimes against [[Islam and Women|women]].

[[Surah]] [[The Holy Qur'an: An-Nisa (Women)|an-Nisa]] discusses lawful and forbidden women for pious Muslims. Before we delve into the particular verse, it should be noted that it is not easy to understand what is being suggested using the verse alone. Therefore, relying on authoritative [[Tafsir]]s (Qur'an interpretations) and [[Sahih]] (authentic) [[Hadith]]s associated with it, are necessary to get the exact picture.

===Verse 4:24===

{{Quote|{{Quran|4|24}}|Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess. Thus has Allah ordained for you. All others are lawful, provided you seek them from your property, desiring chastity, not fornication. So with those among them whom you have enjoyed, give them their required due, but if you agree mutually after the requirement (has been determined), there is no sin on you. Surely, Allah is Ever All-Knowing, All-Wise.}}

What we see in the beginning of this verse as “forbidden” refers to sexual intercourse. The Qur'an dictates, women already married are forbidden for Muslims except those whom their right hands possess (sex [[Slavery|slaves]]).

====Context====

It is important to know the context of this verse, as it sheds light onto the nature of allowance. If we go through a Sahih Hadith in Sunan Abu Dawud:

{{Quote|Abu Dawud 2:2150| Abu Said al-Khudri said: "The apostle of Allah sent a military expedition to Awtas on the occasion of the battle of Hunain. They met their enemy and fought with them. They defeated them and took them captives. Some of the Companions of the apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers. So Allah, the Exalted, sent down the Quranic verse, "And all married women (are forbidden) unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess". That is to say, they are lawful for them when they complete their waiting period." [The Quran verse is 4:24] <ref>[http://quranx.com/hadith/AbuDawud/Book-12/Hadith-110/ Sunan Abu Dawud - Book 12, Hadith 110], Quranx.com ([http://www.webcitation.org/6brTvQ0Nx archive])</ref>}}

Here in the above hadith, we are told why verse 4:24 was revealed to [[Muhammad]]. It was to encourage his fighters, who were reluctant, to have sexual contacts with female captives even while their husbands were alive as prisoners of war. This is made clear when we read:

:'''"Some of the Companions of the apostle of Allah were reluctant to have intercourse with the female captives in the presence of their husbands who were unbelievers."'''

The Abu Dawud hadith is confirmed by the two Sahih collections, namely Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.

In Sahih Bukhari we read:

{{Quote|{{Bukhari|5|59|459}}|Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Said Al-Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah's Apostle for the Ghazwa of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interrupt us, we said, 'How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah's Apostle who is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said, 'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist."}}

Similarly in Sahih Muslim:

{{Quote|{{Muslim|8|3432}}|Abu Sa'id al-Khudri reported that at the Battle of Hunain Allah's Messenger sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that:" And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (Quran 4:. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end).}}

There is an entire chapter devoted to this in the Sahih Muslim collection. The title of the chapter speaks in volumes as we read:

:'''Sahih Muslim. Chapter 29: Title: It is permissible to have sexual intercourse with a captive woman after she is purified of menses or delivery. In case she has a husband, her marriage is abrogated after she becomes captive.'''

Ibn Kathir, the most prominent of all Qur'an interpreters, had this to say in regards to verse 4:24:

{{Quote|1=[http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=10803 Forbidding Women Already Married, Except for Female Slaves] Tafsir Ibn Kathir|2=The Ayah (verses) means Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess.), you are prohibited from marrying women who are already married, except those whom your right hands possess) except those whom you acquire through war, for you are allowed such women after making sure they are not pregnant. Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri said, "We captured some women from the area of Awtas who were already married, and we disliked having sexual relations with them because they already had husbands. So, we asked the Prophet about this matter, and this Ayah (verse) was revealed, Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess). Accordingly, we had sexual relations with these women." (Alternate translation can be: as a result of these verses, their (Infidels) wives have become lawful for us) This is the wording collected by At-Tirmidhi An-Nasa'i, Ibn Jarir and Muslim in his Sahih.}}

Similarly in Tafsir al-Jalalayn (Qur'an interpretation by two Jalals namely: Jalaluddin Mahalli and Jalaluddin Suyuti):

{{Quote|1=[http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=4&tAyahNo=24&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2 Qur'an 4:24] Tafsir al-Jalalayn|2=And, forbidden to you are, wedded women, those with spouses, that you should marry them before they have left their spouses, be they Muslim free women or not; save what your right hands own, of captured [slave] girls, whom you may have sexual intercourse with, even if they should have spouses among the enemy camp, but only after they have been absolved of the possibility of pregnancy [after the completion of one menstrual cycle]; this is what God has prescribed for you.}}

The tafsir attributed to Ibn Abbas, Muhammad's paternal cousin, further confirms:

{{Quote|1=[http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=4&tAyahNo=24&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2 Qur'an 4:24] Tafsir 'Ibn Abbas| 2= And all married women (are forbidden unto you save those (captives) whom your right hands possess) of captives, even if they have husbands in the Abode of War, after ascertaining that they are not pregnant, by waiting for the lapse of one period of menstruation. (It is a decree of Allah for you) that which I have mentioned to you is unlawful in Allah's Book.}}

===Further Verses===

====Verses 23:1-6====

There are other verses in the Qur'an similar to verse 4:24. For example, Surah [[The Holy Qur'an: Al-Mumenoon (The Believers)|al-Mumenoon]] makes mention of successful Muslims and their characteristics:

{{Quote|{{Quran|23|1-6}}|Successful indeed are the believers, who are humble in their prayers and who keep aloof from what is vain and who are givers of poor-rate and who guard their private parts, except before their mates or those whom their right hands possess, for they surely are not blamable.}}

Guarding private parts is denotative of abstaining from sexual activities. The Qur'an points out successful believers are those who are indulging in sexual activities only with their wives and sex-slaves.

====Verses 70:29-30====

This is confirmed again in Surah [[The Holy Qur'an: Al-Maarij (The Ascending Stairways)|al-Maarij]]:

{{Quote|{{Quran|70|29-30}}|And those who guard their private parts, except in the case of their wives or those whom their right hands possess-- for these surely are not to be blamed,}}

==Muhammad==

This practice of raping war captives was practiced by Islam’s very own prophet Muhammad, in his life. On two occasions, he married (for the sake of sexual gratification only) war captives and raped them. Those victims were namely [[Safiyah]] and [[Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Muhammads Wives and Concubines#Juwairiya|Juwairiyah]].

===Safiyah===

Safiyah the daughter of Huayy was the wife of a Jewish Rabbi named [[Kinana]]. When Muhammad conquered the Jewish village of Khaibar, he tortured and killed the Rabbi and took captive his wife. Sahih Hadith in Bukhari testify to this fact:

{{Quote|{{Bukhari|1|8|367}}|Narrated 'Abdul 'Aziz: Anas said, 'When Allah's Apostle invaded Khaibar, we offered the Fajr prayer there yearly in the morning) when it was still dark. The Prophet rode and Abu Talha rode too and I was riding behind Abu Talha. The Prophet passed through the lane of Khaibar quickly and my knee was touching the thigh of the Prophet . He uncovered his thigh and I saw the whiteness of the thigh of the Prophet. When he entered the town, he said, 'Allahu Akbar! Khaibar is ruined. Whenever we approach near a (hostile) nation (to fight) then evil will be the morning of those who have been warned.' He repeated this thrice. The people came out for their jobs and some of them said, 'Muhammad (has come).' (Some of our companions added, "With his army.") We conquered Khaibar, took the captives, and the booty was collected. Dihya came and said, 'O Allah's Prophet! Give me a slave girl from the captives.' The Prophet said, 'Go and take any slave girl.' He took Safiya bint Huyai. A man came to the Prophet and said, 'O Allah's Apostles! You gave Safiya bint Huyai to Dihya and she is the chief mistress of the tribes of Quraiza and An-Nadir and she befits none but you.' So the Prophet said, 'Bring him along with her.' So Dihya came with her and when the Prophet saw her, he said to Dihya, 'Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.' Anas added: The Prophet then manumitted her and married her." Thabit asked Anas, "O Abu Hamza! What did the Prophet pay her (as Mahr)?" He said, "Her self was her Mahr for he manumitted her and then married her." Anas added, "While on the way, Um Sulaim dressed her for marriage (ceremony) and at night she sent her as a bride to the Prophet . So the Prophet was a bridegroom and he said, 'Whoever has anything (food) should bring it.' He spread out a leather sheet (for the food) and some brought dates and others cooking butter. (I think he (Anas) mentioned As-SawTq). So they prepared a dish of Hais (a kind of meal). And that was Walima (the marriage banquet) of Allah's Apostle ."}}

===Juwairiyah===

The following hadith from Sunan Abu Dawud bears out how Muhammad obtained Juwairiyah, a beautiful woman of a tribe called Banu Mustaliq. Muhammad was attacking the tribe without warning and conquering them:

{{Quote|1=[http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=29&translator=3&start=0&number=3920#3920 Abu Dawud 29:3920]|2=Narrated Aisha, Ummul Mu'minin: Juwayriyyah, daughter of al-Harith ibn al-Mustaliq, fell to the lot of Thabit ibn Qays ibn Shammas, or to her cousin. She entered into an agreement to purchase her freedom. She was a very beautiful woman, most attractive to the eye. Aisha said: She then came to the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) asking him for the purchase of her freedom. When she was standing at the door, I looked at her with disapproval. I realised that the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) would look at her in the same way that I had looked. She said: Apostle of Allah, I am Juwayriyyah, daughter of al-Harith, and something has happened to me, which is not hidden from you. I have fallen to the lot of Thabit ibn Qays ibn Shammas, and I have entered into an agreement to purchase of my freedom. I have come to you to seek assistance for the purchase of my freedom. The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) said: Are you inclined to that which is better? She asked: What is that, Apostle of Allah? He replied: I shall pay the price of your freedom on your behalf, and I shall marry you. She said: I shall do this. She (Aisha) said: The people then heard that the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) had married Juwayriyyah. They released the captives in their possession and set them free, and said: They are the relatives of the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) by marriage. We did not see any woman greater than Juwayriyyah who brought blessings to her people. One hundred families of Banu al-Mustaliq were set free on account of her.}}

The following hadith from Sahih Bukhari is evidentiary to the above:

{{Quote|{{Bukhari|3|46|717}}|Narrated Ibn Aun: I wrote a letter to Nafi and Nafi wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi said that Ibn 'Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn 'Umar was in that army.}}

==Muslim Apologetics==

===Claims about verse 24:33===

Muslims will frequently quote the following when confronted with the passages provided in this article and others like it:

{{Quote|1={{Quran|24|33}}|2=Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allah gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which Allah has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is Allah, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),}}

The first part of the verse is telling unmarried people to keep themselves chaste. Now, the important thing to remember is that the Islamic definition of ''chaste'' is different than the commonly agreed upon definitions of the word. According to {{Quran|23|6}}, {{Quran|33|50}}, {{Quran|33|52}}, and {{Quran|70|30}} a Muslim man is considered "chaste" so long as he only has sex with his wives (of whom he may have up to four) and his right-hand possessions (female captives/slaves). An unmarried Muslim man who has sex with his slave girl is still considered to be "chaste" by Islamic standards.<ref>[{{Reference archive|1=http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/10382|2=2012-01-17}} Ruling on having intercourse with a slave woman when one has a wife] - Islam Q&A, Fatwa No. 10382, November 24, 2005</ref>

The second sentence speaks about slaves who ask for a way to pay for their freedom (like indentured servants) as long as the master knows of "any good in them". It would be interesting to discover how female slaves could earn any money at all if they had been kidnapped from their families and forced into slavery and did not have money-making skills. And if a female slave was to earn her freedom, where then could she go if her family had been massacred? How could she support herself and keep herself safe from rape, prostitution, etc.? Practicalities aside, this verse only tells Muslims to let their slaves purchase their freedom (but puts in a convenient disclaimer of "if ye know any good in them"). To give Muhammad credit, he did stipulate that the masters should give their slaves something (again conveniently leaving out what and how much).

The third sentence is what pertains to the Muslim claim that rape is forbidden. However, the word used is not simply sexual intercourse but is more specifically "prostitution" or "whoredom". Prostitution is not simply about sex, but sex for a price. This is why it is often referred to as one of the oldest professions. What this verse speaks of is a master forcing his maid to be a prostitute thereby making money by allowing other men to have sex with her. This verse says nothing about a master forcing himself upon his slave-girl who is considered "halal" for him according to [[Islamic law]]. The fourth sentence says that if a girl is indeed forced into prostitution, then Allah will forgive her for committing [[zina]]. What this verse does not say is what the punishment should be for a man who forces his maid into prostitution. All it says is that he should not do it. And what it definitely does not say is that a Muslim man cannot force himself on his own slave-girl.

===Claims about Muhammad's behavior===

==Conclusion==

From 4:24, it can be rightly assumed, that the Qur'an does not see any wrong-doing in Muslims having sex with captive women even if these women are married and their husbands are still alive. This clearly indicates that the Qur'an allows rape, as captive women, even in the unlikely case of agreeing to sexual intercourse, would still be having that intercourse under duress.

{{Core Women}}

==See Also==
{{Hub4|Rape|Rape}}
*[[Adultery is Permitted in Islam]]

==External Links==
*{{external link|url= http://womanstats.wordpress.com/2013/01/16/the-high-rape-scale-in-saudi-arabia/|title= The High Rape-Scale in Saudi Arabia|publisher= WomanStats Project (blog)|author= |date= January 16, 2013|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwomanstats.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F01%2F16%2Fthe-high-rape-scale-in-saudi-arabia%2F&date=2013-07-13|deadurl=no}}
*[http://www.islam-watch.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=259:sexual-slavery-and-concubinage-in-islam&catid=111:fakhour&Itemid=58 Sexual Slavery and Concubinage in Islam] ''- [[Islam Watch]]''
*[{{Reference archive|1=http://answer-islam.org/Rape.html|2=2011-05-20}} What is the punishment for rape in Christianity and in Islam?] ''- Answers to Islam''
*[http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=25949 Rape Law in Islam - THERE'S NONE] - ''[[Faith Freedom International|FFI Forum]]''

==References==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Islam and Women]]
[[Category:Islamic Law]]
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