WikiIslam - User contributions [en]

User talk:Alt

2013-07-31T00:52:18Z

Alt:

Hi,

You are citing Muslim sources and are criticizing this article and ignored the sources that do exist in the article so its clear you are a Muslim which is fine but you shouldn't say you are not.

I'm moving your comments here. We dont have any french editors here right now. Can you respond in English? If not, I would suggest that you can take this discussion on a French site about Islam.

I can respond to one of your points using translation [http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwikiislam.net%2Fw%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DTalk%3ALe_Coran_et_la_Terre_plate%26rcid%3D100294]. Regarding "no source for Christians saying Earth was round", the source is given as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globus_cruciger]. For example "Citizens of Rome were familiar with the plain round".

I'm sure the rest is easy to respond as well.

You can find alternate sites/forums here (not sure if there are any but you can check): [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_on_the_Net:_International]. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 17:06, 10 June 2013 (PDT)

{{quote||2=
Bonsoir,

je ne suis pas spécialiste, mais je voudrais faire quelques remarques.

1° Il est évident que les Grecs savaient que la Terre était sphérique, mais savaient-ils que la Terre était ovale et non sphérique ??

2° Vous citez plusieurs penseurs chrétiens, mais aucune source pour étayer le fait qu'ils savaient que la Terre était une sphère.

3° L'orbe que porte Charlemagne ne montre en aucun cas qu'ils savaient à l'époque que la Terre était sphérique.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbe_(insigne_royal)

''↑ Il ne s'agit bien sûr pas d'une conception de la rotondité de la terre avant l'heure (bien que certains savants grecs aient défendu cette idée et même donné des approximations acceptables du périmètre de celle-ci). Le globe renvoie à l'expression latine orbis terrarum, le cercle des pays, d'où le nom donné à celui-ci.''

4° Je ne suis pas un spécialiste de l'Islam ni de la langue arabe. Mais j'ai trouvé ceci, où quelqu'un affirme que :

''bien que le mot (dahâ) ne signifie pas seulement étaler il a plusieurs signification y compris aussi la mettre sous forme ovale et c est pas moi qui le dit''
ومن الباب أُدْحِيُّ النَّعام: الموضع الذي يُفَرِّخ فيه، أُفْعولٌ مِن دحوت؛ لأنّه يَدْحُوه برِجْله ثم يبيض فيه.
وليس للنّعامة عُشٌّ.
http://www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=دحوة

''mais les antis musulmans insistent sur le terme étaler ou apllati au lieu de "mettre sous forme ovale" ?? ok qu il soit ainsi( hi hih):''

''mais les antis islam insistent sur le terme étaler ou apllati au lieu de "mettre sous forme ovale" ?? ok qu il soit ainsi( hi hih)''

EDIT : la source est ici : http://islam-aarifa.conceptforum.net/t3084-la-terre-est-elle-plate-selon-le-coran

Mais je ne comprend pas ce qui est écrit en arabe, les logiciels de traduction n'ayant pu me sortir que quelques mots dont "autruche".

Un sphéroïde, qu'il soit oblate ou prolate, est un ovale. "Mettre sous forme d'ovale" pourrait donc correspondre ??

Harun Yahya donne son opinion lui aussi.

http://www.miraclesducoran.com/scientifique_17.html

Je répète que je ne suis pas spécialiste. Je ne suis même pas musulman.

Si vous ne pouvez pas répondre, pourriez vous demander à ceux qui ont écrit l'article en anglais, car je ne maitrise pas cette langue non plus.

D'avance merci.

[[User:Alt|Alt]] ([[User talk:Alt|talk]]) 15:40, 10 June 2013 (PDT)}}

NO sources? there were two sources. Axius provided one and I'll provide the other. In fact I'll go one better and quote the entire article for you:

'''<big>Myth of the Flat Earth (Wikipedia, June 11, 2013)'''</big>

{{Quote||
[[File:Flammarion.jpg|thumb|270px|The famous "Flat Earth" [[Flammarion engraving]] originates with Flammarion's 1888 ''L'atmosphère: météorologie populaire'' (p. 163)]]
[[File:Gossuin de Metz - L'image du monde - BNF Fr. 574 fo42 - miniature.jpg|thumb|Illustration of the [[spherical Earth]] in a 14th-century copy of ''[[Gautier de Metz|L'Image du monde]]'' (ca. 1246).]]

The '''myth of the Flat Earth''' is the modern misconception that the prevailing cosmological view during the [[Middle Ages]] saw the [[Earth]] as [[Flat Earth|flat]], instead of [[Spherical Earth|spherical]].<ref name="flat">{{harvnb|Russell|1991|p=3}}. See also {{harvnb|Russell|1997}}.</ref> The idea seems to have been widespread during the first half of the 20th century, so that the ''Members of the Historical Association'' in 1945 stated that:
<blockquote>
"The idea that educated men at the time of [[Christopher Columbus|Columbus]] believed that the earth was flat, and that this belief was one of the obstacles to be overcome by Columbus before he could get his project sanctioned, remains one of the hardiest errors in teaching."<ref>{{harvnb|Members of the Historical Association|1945|pp=4–5}} In this pamphlet the [[Historical Association]] listed "Columbus and the Flat Earth Conception" second of twenty in its first-published pamphlet on common errors in history.</ref>
</blockquote>

During the early Middle Ages, virtually all scholars maintained the spherical viewpoint first expressed by the Ancient Greeks. From at least the 14th century, belief in a flat earth among the educated was nearly nonexistent, in spite of fanciful depictions in art, such as the exterior of [[Hieronymus Bosch]]'s famous triptych ''[[The Garden of Earthly Delights]]'', in which a disc-shaped earth is shown floating inside a transparent sphere.<ref>
{{harvnb|Gombrich|1969|pp=162–170}}</ref>

According to [[Stephen Jay Gould]], "there never was a period of 'flat earth darkness' among scholars (regardless of how the public at large may have conceptualized our planet both then and now). Greek knowledge of sphericity never faded, and all major medieval scholars accepted the earth's roundness as an established fact of cosmology."<ref name=Gould1996>{{harvnb|Gould|1997}}</ref> Historians of science [[David C. Lindberg|David Lindberg]] and [[Ronald Numbers]] point out that "there was scarcely a Christian scholar of the Middle Ages who did not acknowledge [Earth's] sphericity and even know its approximate circumference".<ref>
{{harvnb|Lindberg|Numbers|1986|pp=338–354}}</ref>

Historian [[Jeffrey Burton Russell]] says the flat earth error flourished most between 1870 and 1920, and had to do with the ideological setting created by struggles over evolution.<ref>http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c034.html</ref> Russell claims "with extraordinary [sic] few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat", and credits histories by [[John William Draper]], [[Andrew Dickson White]], and [[Washington Irving]] for popularizing the flat-earth myth.<ref name="Russell97">{{harvnb|Russell|1997}}.{{Page needed|date=April 2011}} See also Russell's book {{Harv|Russell|1991}}.</ref>

==History==
In ''[[Inventing the Flat Earth|Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians]]'', Jeffrey Russell describes the Flat Earth theory as a fable used to [[wikt:impugn|impugn]] pre-modern civilization, especially that of the Middle Ages in Europe.<ref>{{harvnb|Russell|1991|}}.{{Page needed|date=September 2010}}</ref>

James Hannam wrote:

<blockquote>The myth that people in the Middle Ages thought the earth is flat appears to date from the 17th century as part of the campaign by Protestants against Catholic teaching. But it gained currency in the 19th century, thanks to inaccurate histories such as John William Draper's ''History of the Conflict Between Religion and Science'' (1874) and Andrew Dickson White's ''History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom'' (1896). Atheists and agnostics championed the [[conflict thesis]] for their own purposes, but historical research gradually demonstrated that Draper and White had propagated more fantasy than fact in their efforts to prove that science and religion are locked in eternal conflict.<ref>James Hannam. [http://www.patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Science-Versus-Christianity.html "Science Versus Christianity?"].</ref></blockquote>

===Early modern period===
French dramatist [[Cyrano de Bergerac (writer)|Cyrano de Bergerac]] in chapter 5 of his ''The Other World The Societies and Governments of the Moon'' (published 2 years posthumously in 1657) quotes St. Augustine as saying "that in his day and age the earth was as flat as a stove lid and that it floated on water like half of a sliced orange."<ref>[http://www.bewilderingstories.com/issue29/cyrano5.html The Other World The Societies and Governments of the Moon], translated by Donald Webb</ref> [[Robert Burton (scholar)|Robert Burton]], in his ''[[The Anatomy of Melancholy]]''<ref name=burton>Second Partition, Section 2, Member 3 "Air Rectified. With a Digression of the Air" [http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10800/10800-8.txt The Anatomy of Melancholy]</ref> wrote:
<blockquote>[[Vergilius of Salzburg|Virgil]], sometimes bishop of Saltburg (as Aventinus ''anno'' 745 relates) by [[Saint Boniface|Bonifacius]] bishop of Mentz was therefore called in question, because he held antipodes (which they made a doubt whether Christ died for) and so by that means took away the seat of hell, or so contracted it, that it could bear no proportion to heaven, and contradicted that opinion of Austin [St. Augustine], Basil, Lactantius that held the earth round as a [[Trencher (tableware)|trencher]] (whom [[José de Acosta|Acosta]] and common experience more largely confute) but not as a ball.</blockquote>

Thus, there is evidence that accusations of flatearthism, though somewhat whimsical (Burton ends his digression with a legitimate quotation of St. Augustine: "Better doubt of things concealed, than to contend about uncertainties, where Abraham's bosom is, and hell fire"<ref name=burton/>) were used to discredit opposing authorities several centuries before the 19th. Another early mention in literature is [[Ludvig Holberg]]'s comedy ''Erasmus Montanus'' (1723). Erasmus Montanus meets considerable opposition when he claims the Earth is round, since all the peasants hold it to be flat. He is not allowed to marry his fiancée until he cries "The earth is flat as a pancake". In Thomas Jefferson's book ''[[Notes on the State of Virginia]]'' (1784), framed as answers to a series of questions (queries), Jefferson uses the "Query" regarding religion to attack the idea of state-sponsored official religions. In the chapter, Jefferson relates a series of official erroneous beliefs about nature forced upon people by authority. One of these is the episode of [[Galileo]]'s struggles with authority, which Jefferson erroneously frames in terms of the shape of the globe:<ref>[http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=JefVirg.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=17&division=div1] Jefferson, Thomas, 1743–1826 . Notes on the State of Virginia, Query regarding RELIGION. Electronic Text Center, University of Virginia Library.</ref>

<blockquote>Government is just as infallible too when it fixes systems in physics. Galileo was sent to the inquisition for affirming that the earth was a sphere: the government had declared it to be as flat as a [[Trencher (tableware)|trencher]], and Galileo was obliged to abjure his error. This error however at length prevailed, the earth became a globe, and Descartes declared it was whirled round its axis by a [[Mechanical explanations of gravitation#Vortex|vortex]].</blockquote>

===19th century===
[[File:Orlando-Ferguson-flat-earth-map edit.jpg|thumb|right|Flat Earth map drawn by [[Orlando Ferguson]] in 1893. The map contains several references to biblical passages as well as various jabs at the "Globe Theory".]]
The 19th century was a period in which the perception of an antagonism between religion and science was especially strong. The disputes surrounding the [[Reaction to Darwin's theory|Darwinian revolution]] contributed to the birth of the [[conflict thesis]].<ref>{{Harvnb|Gould|1996}}</ref><ref>David B. Wilson writes about the development of the conflict thesis in "The Historiography of Science and Religion" {{Harv|Wilson|2002}}.</ref>

===Irving's biography of Columbus===
In 1828, Washington Irving's highly romanticised biography, ''[[A History of the Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus]]'',<ref>{{Harvnb|Irving|1861}}</ref> was published and mistaken by many for a scholarly work.<ref>{{Harvnb|Russell|1991||pp=51–56}}.</ref> In Book III, Chapter II of this biography, Irving gave a largely fictional account of the meetings of a commission established by the Spanish sovereigns to examine Columbus's proposals. One of his more fanciful embellishments was a highly unlikely tale that the more ignorant and bigoted members on the commission had raised scriptural objections to Columbus's assertions that the Earth was spherical.<ref>[http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moa;cc=moa;rgn=full%20text;idno=acb0796.0003.001;didno=ACB0796.0003.001;view=image;seq=120;page=root;size=s;frm=frameset Irving, p.90].{{Citation needed|date=April 2011}} </ref>

The issue in the 1490s was not the shape of the Earth, but its size, and the position of the east coast of Asia, as Irving in fact points out. Historical estimates from [[Ptolemy]] onwards placed the coast of Asia about 180° east of the [[Canary Islands]].<ref>Ptolemy, ''Geography'', book 1:14.</ref> Columbus adopted an earlier (and rejected) distance of 225°, added 28° (based on [[Marco Polo|Marco Polo's]] travels), and then placed [[Japan]] another 30° further east. Starting from [[Cape St. Vincent]] in [[Portugal]], Columbus made [[Eurasia]] stretch 283° to the east, leaving the [[Atlantic]] as only 77° wide. Since he planned to leave from the Canaries (9° further west), his trip to Japan would only have to cover 68° of longitude.<ref>{{Harvnb|Morison|1942}}, vol. 1, p. 65; {{Harvnb|Nunn|Edwards|1924}}, pp. 27–30.</ref>

Columbus mistakenly used a much shorter length for a degree (he substituted the shorter 1480 m Italian "mile" for the longer 2177 m Arabic "mile"), making his degree (and the circumference of the Earth) about 75% of what it really was.<ref>{{Harvnb|Nunn|Edwards|1924}}, pp. 1–2, 27–30.</ref> The combined effect of these mistakes was that Columbus estimated the distance to Japan to be only about 5,000 km (or only to the eastern edge of the [[Caribbean]]) while the true figure is about 20,000 km. The Spanish scholars may not have known the exact distance to the east coast of Asia, but they believed that it was significantly further than Columbus' projection; and this was the basis of the criticism in Spain and Portugal, whether academic or amongst mariners, of the proposed voyage.

The disputed point was not the shape of the Earth, nor the idea that going west would eventually lead to Japan and China, but the ability of European ships to sail that far across open seas. The small ships of the day (Columbus' three ships varied between 20.5 and 23.5 m – or 67 to 77 feet – in length and carried about 90 men) simply could not carry enough food and water to reach Japan. The ships barely reached the eastern Caribbean islands. Already the crews were mutinous, not because of some fear of "sailing off the edge", but because they were running out of food and water with no chance of any new supplies within sailing distance. They were on the edge of starvation.<ref>{{Harvnb|Morison|1942}}, pp. 209, 211.</ref>
What saved Columbus was the unknown existence of the Americas precisely at the point he thought he would reach Japan. His ability to resupply with food and water from the Caribbean islands allowed him to return safely to Europe. Otherwise his crews would have died, and the ships foundered.

===Letronne, Whewell and Flammarion===
In 1834, a few years after the publication of Irving's book, [[Jean Antoine Letronne]], a French academic of strong antireligious ideas, misrepresented the [[church fathers]] and their medieval successors as believing in a flat earth, in his ''On the Cosmographical Ideas of the Church Fathers''.<ref>{{Harvnb|Russell|1997}}.{{page needed|date=April 2011}}</ref> Then, in 1837, the English philosopher of science [[William Whewell]] first identified, in his ''History of the Inductive Sciences'', two minimally significant characters named [[Lactantius]] (245–325, also mocked by [[Copernicus]] in [[De revolutionibus]] of 1543, as someone who ''speaks quite childishly about the Earth's shape, when he mocks those who declared that the Earth has the form of a globe'') and [[Cosmas Indicopleustes]], who wrote his "[[Christian Topography]]" in 547–549. Whewell pointed to them as evidence of a medieval belief in a Flat Earth, and other historians quickly followed him, although they could identify few other examples.<ref>{{Harvnb|Gould|1997|p=42}}</ref>

The widely circulated engraving of a man poking his head through the firmament surrounding the Earth to view the [[Empyrean]], executed in the style of the 16th century was published in [[Camille Flammarion]]'s ''L'Atmosphère: Météorologie Populaire'' (Paris, 1888, p. 163).<ref>[http://homepage.mac.com/kvmagruder/flatEarth/source.html History_of_Science_Collections]</ref> The engraving illustrates the statement in the text that a medieval missionary claimed that "he reached the horizon where the Earth and the heavens met". In its original form, the engraving included a decorative border that places it in the 19th century; in later publications, some claiming that the engraving did, in fact, date to the 16th century, the border was removed. Flammarion, according to anecdotal evidence, had commissioned the ''[[Flammarion engraving]]'' himself.

=== 20th century ===
Since the early 20th century, a number of books and articles have documented the flat earth error as one of a number of widespread misconceptions in popular [[Medievalism|views of the Middle Ages]]. The misconception has had no currency in historical scholarship since at least 1920, but it persisted in popular culture and in some school textbooks into the 1960s. Both E.M.W. Tillyard's book ''The Elizabethan World Picture'' and C.S. Lewis' ''The Discarded Image'' are devoted to a broad survey of how the universe was viewed in Renaissance and medieval times, and both extensively discuss how the educated classes knew the world was round. Lewis draws attention to the fact that in Dante's ''The Divine Comedy'' about an epic voyage through hell, purgatory, and heaven, the earth is spherical with gravity being towards the center of the earth. As the devil is frozen in a block of ice in the center of the earth, Dante and Virgil climb down the devil's torso, but up from the devil's waist to his feet, as his waist is at the center of the earth.

An American schoolbook by Emma Miller Bolenius published in 1919 has this introduction to the suggested reading for [[Columbus Day]] (12 October):
{{quote|1=|2=When Columbus lived, people thought that the earth was flat. They believed the Atlantic Ocean to be filled with monsters large enough to devour their ships, and with fearful waterfalls over which their frail vessels would plunge to destruction. Columbus had to fight these foolish beliefs in order to get men to sail with him. He felt sure the earth was round.<ref>
{{Harvnb|Bolenius|1919}} quoted in {{Harvnb|Garwood|2007}}.</ref>}}

Previous editions of [[Thomas A. Bailey|Thomas Bailey]]'s ''[[The American Pageant]]'' stated that ''"The superstitious sailors [of Columbus' crew] ... grew increasingly mutinous...because they were fearful of sailing over the edge of the world"''; however, no such historical account is known.<ref>{{Harvnb|Loewen|1996}}, p. 56.</ref>  The 1937 popular song, [[They All Laughed (song)|''They All Laughed'']] contains the couplet "They all laughed at Christopher Columbus/When he said the world was round". In the Warner Bros. ''Merrie Melodies'' cartoon ''[[Hare We Go]]'' (1951) Christopher Columbus and Ferdinand the Catholic quarrel about the shape of the earth. The king states the earth is flat. In Walt Disney's 1963 animation ''[[The Sword in the Stone (film)|The Sword in the Stone]]'', wizard Merlin (who has traveled into the future) explains to his apprentice that "One day they will discover that the earth is round". [[Jeffrey Burton Russell]] rebutted the prevalence of belief in the flat earth in the monograph 1991 [Russell, Jeffrey Burton (1991), Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and modern historians, New York: Praeger, ISBN 0-275-95904-X] and the paper 1997 [Russell, Jeffrey Burton (1997), "The Myth of the Flat Earth", Studies in the History of Science (American Scientific Affiliation), retrieved 2007-07-14]. Louise Bishop (2008) states that virtually every thinker and writer of the 1000-year medieval period affirmed the spherical shape of the earth.<ref>{{Harvnb|Bishop|2008|p=99}}.</ref>

==See also==
* [[List of common misconceptions]]
* [[T and O map]]
* [[Mappa mundi]]
* [[Armillary sphere#History|Armillary sphere]]
* [[Pope Sylvester II#Armillary_sphere_and_sighting_tube|Pope Sylvester II]]

==Notes==
{{Reflist|2}}

==References==
*{{Citation
|first1 = Louise M. |last1 = Bishop
|year = 2008
|chapter = The Myth of the Flat Earth
|editor1-first = Stephen J. |editor1-last = Harris
|editor2-first = Bryon Lee |editor2-last = Grigsby
|title = Misconceptions about the Middle Ages
|publisher = Routledge
|isbn = 978-0-415-77053-8
}}
*{{Citation
|first1 = Emma Miller |last1 = Bolenius
|title= The Boys' and Girls' Reader: Fifth Reader
|publisher= Houghton Mifflin
|year=1919
}}
*{{Citation
|first1 = Christine |last1 = Garwood
|title= Flat Earth: the history of an infamous idea
|publisher= Macmillan
|year= 2007
|isbn= 0-312-38208-1
}}
*{{Citation
|first1 = E. H. |last1 = Gombrich
|year = 1969
|title = Bosch's "Garden of Earthly Delights": A progress report
|journal = Journal of the Warbourg and Courtauld Institutes
|volume = 32 |pages = 162–170
|url = http://www.jstor.org/stable/750611
}}
*{{Citation
| first1 = Stephen J. | last1 = Gould
| authorlink = Stephen Jay Gould
| year = 1997
| chapter = The late birth of a flat earth
| title = Dinosaur in a Haystack: Reflections in Natural History
| publisher = Three Rivers Press
| location = New York
| pages = 38–50
| edition=1st pbk.
| isbn = 0-517-88824-6
| url = http://www.inf.fu-berlin.de/lehre/SS05/efs/materials/FlatEarth.pdf
}}
*{{Citation
| first1 = Washington | last1 = Irving
| authorlink = Washington Irving
| title = The Works of Washington Irving
| publisher = University of Michigan Library
| year = 1861
| url = http://name.umdl.umich.edu/acb0796.0003.001
| accessdate = 2008-08-19
}}
*{{Citation
| first1 = David C. | last1 = Lindberg
| author-link = David C. Lindberg
| first2 = Ronald L. | last2 = Numbers
| author2-link = Ronald L. Numbers
| title = Beyond War and Peace: A Reappraisal of the Encounter between Christianity and Science
| journal = Church History
| volume = 55 | issue = 3 | pages = 338–354
| publisher = Cambridge University Press
| year = 1986
| doi = 10.2307/3166822
| jstor = 3166822
}}
*{{Citation
|first1 = James. W. |last1 = Loewen
|year = 1996
|title = Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong
|publisher = Touchstone Books
|isbn = 978-0-684-81886-3
}}
*{{Citation
| last= Members of the Historical Association
| title= Common errors in history
| publisher = P.S. King & Staples for the Historical Association
| year= 1945
| location= London
| others= General Series, G.1
}}
*{{Citation
|ref = CITEREFMorison1942
|first1 = Samuel Eliot |last1 = Morison
|authorlink = Samuel Eliot Morison
|year = [1942] 1991
|title = Admiral of the Ocean Sea. A Life of Christopher Columbus
|publisher = Little, Brown & Co.
|isbn = 0-316-58478-9
}}
*{{Citation
|ref = CITEREFNunnEdwards1924
|first1 = George E. |last1 = Nunn
|first2 = Clinton R. |last2 = Edwards
|year = [1924] 1992
|title = The Geographical Conceptions of Columbus
|publisher = [[American Geographical Society]] Golda Meir Library
|location = Milwaukee, Wisconsin, U.S.A.
|isbn = 1-879281-06-6
}}
*{{Citation
| first1= Jeffrey Burton | last1= Russell
| authorlink = Jeffrey Burton Russell
| title= Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and modern historians
| publisher= Praeger
| year= 1991
| location= New York
| isbn= 0-275-95904-X
}}
*{{Citation
| first1 = Jeffrey Burton | last1 = Russell
| authorlink = Jeffrey Burton Russell
| title = The Myth of the Flat Earth
| work = Studies in the History of Science
| publisher = [[American Scientific Affiliation]]
| year = 1997
| url = http://www.asa3.org/ASA/topics/history/1997Russell.html
| doi =
| accessdate = 2007-07-14
}}
*{{Citation
|first1 = David B. |last1 = Wilson
|year = 2002
|contribution= The Historiography of Science and Religion
|editor1-first = Gary B. |editor2-last = Ferngren
|title = Science and Religion: A Historical Introduction
|publisher = Johns Hopkins University Press
|isbn =0-8018-7038-0
}}

{{Use dmy dates|date=August 2011}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Myth Of The Flat Earth}}
[[Category:Pseudohistory]]
[[Category:Flat Earth theory]]
}}

Hi, I'm not good in English but I understand what you say.

Can you ask to the person who translate this site in French to translate my message and my source about globus cruciger ? It explain why is not a reference about a spheric Earth.

I'm not muslim and I don't understand arab language. I just quote a site who answering about "daha". And the persons speack about the sentences that I quote in arabic language to prove what he says. Can you understand this arabic phrases and can you translate me because i can't and i want to know about what it is talk ?

Thanks a lot.

I'm agnostic.

[[User:Alt|Alt]] ([[User talk:Alt|talk]]) 00:00, 11 June 2013 (PDT)

:'''"Can you ask to the person who translate this site in French to translate my message and my source about globus cruciger ?"'''
:No, we're not a translation service.
:'''"source about globus cruciger ? It explain why is not a reference about a spheric Earth."'''
:It makes no difference what a disingenuous Muslim apologist has to say. It is a ''historical fact'' that the claim of medieval Christians believing in a flat earth is false. The second reference I quoted in full, confirms this. Therefore whatever they have to say on the subject is irrelevant.
:'''"I don't understand arab language. I just quote a site who answering about "daha". And the persons speack about the sentences that I quote in arabic language to prove what he says."'''
:The article already deals with that claim. [[User:Sahabah|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 00:31, 11 June 2013 (PDT)
::Alt, you can also read/take a quick look at: [[Arabic Terms]], [[Islam and Propaganda]] and [[Before Converting to Islam]]. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 04:11, 11 June 2013 (PDT)

Ok, thanks, but, Some of you speak arab or not ?

I just want to have a translation to know what it is written in the quote i supply in arab.

Can you help me please ?

I send a message to the author to ask him what is the translation of his phrases to know what he wanted to say.

Thanks a lot.

[[User:Alt|Alt]] ([[User talk:Alt|talk]]) 10:19, 11 June 2013 (PDT)

:We are not a forum. If you need help with Arabic, go to a language forum or [http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/ FaithFreedom International] and ask for help. Thanks. [[User:Sahabah|--Sahabah]] ([[User talk:Sahabah|talk]]) 10:25, 11 June 2013 (PDT)

Hello.

I need help please. I not speack english but I understand a little.

It's about the "Dead Sea miracle".

Muslims says that in the Quran it is mentionned that the Dead Sea is the lower land of the Earth and that the usual translation is an error.

See that please :

http://quran-m.com/firas/france/index.php/dans-lunivers/122-le-point-le-plus-bas-de-la-terre

''Dans le troisième verset de la sourate ar-Roûm, nous apprenons que les Romains ont été vaincus dans la région la plus basse de la Terre. Cette expression, "adnâ al-ard" en arabe, a été interprétée dans la plupart des traductions comme signifiant "un endroit voisin". Cependant, ce n'est pas le sens littéral de l'expression, mais plutôt une interprétation au sens figuré. Le mot ‘adnâ’ en arabe est dérivé du mot ‘ânî’ qui signifie bas, et ‘ard’ signifie la Terre. Donc , l'expression ‘adnâ al-ard’ signifie "l'endroit le plus bas de la Terre ".''

"In the third verse of Surat ar-Rum, we learn that the Romans have been defeated in the lowest region of the Earth. This expression, "Adna al Ard" in Arabic, has been interpreted in most translations as meaning "a nearby place". However, this is not the literal meaning of the term, but rather an interpretation figuratively. The word 'Adna' is derived from the Arabic word 'ani' means low, and 'ard' meaning Earth. So the expression 'Adna al Ard "means" the lowest place on Earth. ""

http://www.examinethetruth.com/omars_response_to_sina1.htm

Here, a muslim says :

These translations are outdated and contain various other errors in them.

"This is of course wishful thinking of a deluded believer and the absurdity of that is self-evident. The Romans were not defeated in the Red Sea but in Jerusalem and Jerusalem is above sea level."

The word "fi" means "near" or “beside” too. The Romans were defeated near the Dead Sea, which is true.

"If we had to take Mr. Ahmed for his word and disregard the obvious meaning of the word, this verse would have become yet another blunder of Muhammad."

It says "fi adna alard"

If it really meant in the nearer land, it must have been

"fi adna ard" without the "al".

The "adna" means lower in the Quran. Let's look at an example from the Quran;

"ثم دنى فتدلى"

53:8 Then be drew nigh and came down Picktall

Thumma dana fatadalla

"Dana" here means down/low. So "adna" in the Quran means lower......

"Fi" also means "near". And obviously the Romans were defeated near the Dead Sea.

"However all the interpreters of the Quran have translated the verse correctly."

No, they got it wrong. Read the Reformist Translation of the Quran to get a clearer idea of what it says. I also elaborated above of why the correct translation is “lowest” not “near”.

So, can you help me, i don't know what is right or wrong.

Thanks a lot.

Alt.[[User:Alt|Alt]] ([[User talk:Alt|talk]]) 17:52, 30 July 2013 (PDT)

User talk:Alt

2013-06-11T17:19:56Z

Alt:

User talk:Alt

2013-06-11T07:00:58Z

Alt:

Hi, I'm not good in English but I understand what you say.

Can you ask to the person who translate this site in French to translate my message and my source about globus cruciger ? It explain why is not a reference about a spheric Earth.

I'm not muslim and I don't understand arab language. I just quote a site who answering about "daha". And the persons speack about the sentences that I quote in arabic language to prove what he says. Can you understand this arabic phrases and can you translate me because i can't and i want to know about what it is talk ?

Thanks a lot.

I'm agnostic.

[[User:Alt|Alt]] ([[User talk:Alt|talk]]) 00:00, 11 June 2013 (PDT)

Hi,

You are citing Muslim sources and are criticizing this article and ignored the sources that do exist in the article so its clear you are a Muslim which is fine but you shouldn't say you are not.

I'm moving your comments here. We dont have any french editors here right now. Can you respond in English? If not, I would suggest that you can take this discussion on a French site about Islam.

I can respond to one of your points using translation [http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=fr&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwikiislam.net%2Fw%2Findex.php%3Ftitle%3DTalk%3ALe_Coran_et_la_Terre_plate%26rcid%3D100294]. Regarding "no source for Christians saying Earth was round", the source is given as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globus_cruciger]. For example "Citizens of Rome were familiar with the plain round".

I'm sure the rest is easy to respond as well.

You can find alternate sites/forums here (not sure if there are any but you can check): [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Islam_on_the_Net:_International]. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 17:06, 10 June 2013 (PDT)

{{quote||2=
Bonsoir,

je ne suis pas spécialiste, mais je voudrais faire quelques remarques.

1° Il est évident que les Grecs savaient que la Terre était sphérique, mais savaient-ils que la Terre était ovale et non sphérique ??

2° Vous citez plusieurs penseurs chrétiens, mais aucune source pour étayer le fait qu'ils savaient que la Terre était une sphère.

3° L'orbe que porte Charlemagne ne montre en aucun cas qu'ils savaient à l'époque que la Terre était sphérique.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbe_(insigne_royal)

''↑ Il ne s'agit bien sûr pas d'une conception de la rotondité de la terre avant l'heure (bien que certains savants grecs aient défendu cette idée et même donné des approximations acceptables du périmètre de celle-ci). Le globe renvoie à l'expression latine orbis terrarum, le cercle des pays, d'où le nom donné à celui-ci.''

4° Je ne suis pas un spécialiste de l'Islam ni de la langue arabe. Mais j'ai trouvé ceci, où quelqu'un affirme que :

''bien que le mot (dahâ) ne signifie pas seulement étaler il a plusieurs signification y compris aussi la mettre sous forme ovale et c est pas moi qui le dit''
ومن الباب أُدْحِيُّ النَّعام: الموضع الذي يُفَرِّخ فيه، أُفْعولٌ مِن دحوت؛ لأنّه يَدْحُوه برِجْله ثم يبيض فيه.
وليس للنّعامة عُشٌّ.
http://www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=دحوة

''mais les antis musulmans insistent sur le terme étaler ou apllati au lieu de "mettre sous forme ovale" ?? ok qu il soit ainsi( hi hih):''

''mais les antis islam insistent sur le terme étaler ou apllati au lieu de "mettre sous forme ovale" ?? ok qu il soit ainsi( hi hih)''

EDIT : la source est ici : http://islam-aarifa.conceptforum.net/t3084-la-terre-est-elle-plate-selon-le-coran

Mais je ne comprend pas ce qui est écrit en arabe, les logiciels de traduction n'ayant pu me sortir que quelques mots dont "autruche".

Un sphéroïde, qu'il soit oblate ou prolate, est un ovale. "Mettre sous forme d'ovale" pourrait donc correspondre ??

Harun Yahya donne son opinion lui aussi.

http://www.miraclesducoran.com/scientifique_17.html

Je répète que je ne suis pas spécialiste. Je ne suis même pas musulman.

Si vous ne pouvez pas répondre, pourriez vous demander à ceux qui ont écrit l'article en anglais, car je ne maitrise pas cette langue non plus.

D'avance merci.

[[User:Alt|Alt]] ([[User talk:Alt|talk]]) 15:40, 10 June 2013 (PDT)}}

NO sources? there were two sources. Axius provided one and I'll provide the other. In fact I'll go one better and quote the entire article for you:

'''<big>Myth of the Flat Earth (Wikipedia, June 11, 2013)'''</big>

{{Quote||
[[File:Flammarion.jpg|thumb|270px|The famous "Flat Earth" [[Flammarion engraving]] originates with Flammarion's 1888 ''L'atmosphère: météorologie populaire'' (p. 163)]]
[[File:Gossuin de Metz - L'image du monde - BNF Fr. 574 fo42 - miniature.jpg|thumb|Illustration of the [[spherical Earth]] in a 14th-century copy of ''[[Gautier de Metz|L'Image du monde]]'' (ca. 1246).]]

The '''myth of the Flat Earth''' is the modern misconception that the prevailing cosmological view during the [[Middle Ages]] saw the [[Earth]] as [[Flat Earth|flat]], instead of [[Spherical Earth|spherical]].<ref name="flat">{{harvnb|Russell|1991|p=3}}. See also {{harvnb|Russell|1997}}.</ref> The idea seems to have been widespread during the first half of the 20th century, so that the ''Members of the Historical Association'' in 1945 stated that:
<blockquote>
"The idea that educated men at the time of [[Christopher Columbus|Columbus]] believed that the earth was flat, and that this belief was one of the obstacles to be overcome by Columbus before he could get his project sanctioned, remains one of the hardiest errors in teaching."<ref>{{harvnb|Members of the Historical Association|1945|pp=4–5}} In this pamphlet the [[Historical Association]] listed "Columbus and the Flat Earth Conception" second of twenty in its first-published pamphlet on common errors in history.</ref>
</blockquote>

During the early Middle Ages, virtually all scholars maintained the spherical viewpoint first expressed by the Ancient Greeks. From at least the 14th century, belief in a flat earth among the educated was nearly nonexistent, in spite of fanciful depictions in art, such as the exterior of [[Hieronymus Bosch]]'s famous triptych ''[[The Garden of Earthly Delights]]'', in which a disc-shaped earth is shown floating inside a transparent sphere.<ref>
{{harvnb|Gombrich|1969|pp=162–170}}</ref>

According to [[Stephen Jay Gould]], "there never was a period of 'flat earth darkness' among scholars (regardless of how the public at large may have conceptualized our planet both then and now). Greek knowledge of sphericity never faded, and all major medieval scholars accepted the earth's roundness as an established fact of cosmology."<ref name=Gould1996>{{harvnb|Gould|1997}}</ref> Historians of science [[David C. Lindberg|David Lindberg]] and [[Ronald Numbers]] point out that "there was scarcely a Christian scholar of the Middle Ages who did not acknowledge [Earth's] sphericity and even know its approximate circumference".<ref>
{{harvnb|Lindberg|Numbers|1986|pp=338–354}}</ref>

Historian [[Jeffrey Burton Russell]] says the flat earth error flourished most between 1870 and 1920, and had to do with the ideological setting created by struggles over evolution.<ref>http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c034.html</ref> Russell claims "with extraordinary [sic] few exceptions no educated person in the history of Western Civilization from the third century B.C. onward believed that the earth was flat", and credits histories by [[John William Draper]], [[Andrew Dickson White]], and [[Washington Irving]] for popularizing the flat-earth myth.<ref name="Russell97">{{harvnb|Russell|1997}}.{{Page needed|date=April 2011}} See also Russell's book {{Harv|Russell|1991}}.</ref>

==History==
In ''[[Inventing the Flat Earth|Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and Modern Historians]]'', Jeffrey Russell describes the Flat Earth theory as a fable used to [[wikt:impugn|impugn]] pre-modern civilization, especially that of the Middle Ages in Europe.<ref>{{harvnb|Russell|1991|}}.{{Page needed|date=September 2010}}</ref>

James Hannam wrote:

<blockquote>The myth that people in the Middle Ages thought the earth is flat appears to date from the 17th century as part of the campaign by Protestants against Catholic teaching. But it gained currency in the 19th century, thanks to inaccurate histories such as John William Draper's ''History of the Conflict Between Religion and Science'' (1874) and Andrew Dickson White's ''History of the Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom'' (1896). Atheists and agnostics championed the [[conflict thesis]] for their own purposes, but historical research gradually demonstrated that Draper and White had propagated more fantasy than fact in their efforts to prove that science and religion are locked in eternal conflict.<ref>James Hannam. [http://www.patheos.com/Resources/Additional-Resources/Science-Versus-Christianity.html "Science Versus Christianity?"].</ref></blockquote>

===Early modern period===
French dramatist [[Cyrano de Bergerac (writer)|Cyrano de Bergerac]] in chapter 5 of his ''The Other World The Societies and Governments of the Moon'' (published 2 years posthumously in 1657) quotes St. Augustine as saying "that in his day and age the earth was as flat as a stove lid and that it floated on water like half of a sliced orange."<ref>[http://www.bewilderingstories.com/issue29/cyrano5.html The Other World The Societies and Governments of the Moon], translated by Donald Webb</ref> [[Robert Burton (scholar)|Robert Burton]], in his ''[[The Anatomy of Melancholy]]''<ref name=burton>Second Partition, Section 2, Member 3 "Air Rectified. With a Digression of the Air" [http://www.gutenberg.org/files/10800/10800-8.txt The Anatomy of Melancholy]</ref> wrote:
<blockquote>[[Vergilius of Salzburg|Virgil]], sometimes bishop of Saltburg (as Aventinus ''anno'' 745 relates) by [[Saint Boniface|Bonifacius]] bishop of Mentz was therefore called in question, because he held antipodes (which they made a doubt whether Christ died for) and so by that means took away the seat of hell, or so contracted it, that it could bear no proportion to heaven, and contradicted that opinion of Austin [St. Augustine], Basil, Lactantius that held the earth round as a [[Trencher (tableware)|trencher]] (whom [[José de Acosta|Acosta]] and common experience more largely confute) but not as a ball.</blockquote>

Thus, there is evidence that accusations of flatearthism, though somewhat whimsical (Burton ends his digression with a legitimate quotation of St. Augustine: "Better doubt of things concealed, than to contend about uncertainties, where Abraham's bosom is, and hell fire"<ref name=burton/>) were used to discredit opposing authorities several centuries before the 19th. Another early mention in literature is [[Ludvig Holberg]]'s comedy ''Erasmus Montanus'' (1723). Erasmus Montanus meets considerable opposition when he claims the Earth is round, since all the peasants hold it to be flat. He is not allowed to marry his fiancée until he cries "The earth is flat as a pancake". In Thomas Jefferson's book ''[[Notes on the State of Virginia]]'' (1784), framed as answers to a series of questions (queries), Jefferson uses the "Query" regarding religion to attack the idea of state-sponsored official religions. In the chapter, Jefferson relates a series of official erroneous beliefs about nature forced upon people by authority. One of these is the episode of [[Galileo]]'s struggles with authority, which Jefferson erroneously frames in terms of the shape of the globe:<ref>[http://etext.virginia.edu/etcbin/toccer-new2?id=JefVirg.sgm&images=images/modeng&data=/texts/english/modeng/parsed&tag=public&part=17&division=div1] Jefferson, Thomas, 1743–1826 . Notes on the State of Virginia, Query regarding RELIGION. Electronic Text Center, University of Virginia Library.</ref>

<blockquote>Government is just as infallible too when it fixes systems in physics. Galileo was sent to the inquisition for affirming that the earth was a sphere: the government had declared it to be as flat as a [[Trencher (tableware)|trencher]], and Galileo was obliged to abjure his error. This error however at length prevailed, the earth became a globe, and Descartes declared it was whirled round its axis by a [[Mechanical explanations of gravitation#Vortex|vortex]].</blockquote>

===19th century===
[[File:Orlando-Ferguson-flat-earth-map edit.jpg|thumb|right|Flat Earth map drawn by [[Orlando Ferguson]] in 1893. The map contains several references to biblical passages as well as various jabs at the "Globe Theory".]]
The 19th century was a period in which the perception of an antagonism between religion and science was especially strong. The disputes surrounding the [[Reaction to Darwin's theory|Darwinian revolution]] contributed to the birth of the [[conflict thesis]].<ref>{{Harvnb|Gould|1996}}</ref><ref>David B. Wilson writes about the development of the conflict thesis in "The Historiography of Science and Religion" {{Harv|Wilson|2002}}.</ref>

===Irving's biography of Columbus===
In 1828, Washington Irving's highly romanticised biography, ''[[A History of the Life and Voyages of Christopher Columbus]]'',<ref>{{Harvnb|Irving|1861}}</ref> was published and mistaken by many for a scholarly work.<ref>{{Harvnb|Russell|1991||pp=51–56}}.</ref> In Book III, Chapter II of this biography, Irving gave a largely fictional account of the meetings of a commission established by the Spanish sovereigns to examine Columbus's proposals. One of his more fanciful embellishments was a highly unlikely tale that the more ignorant and bigoted members on the commission had raised scriptural objections to Columbus's assertions that the Earth was spherical.<ref>[http://quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/t/text/pageviewer-idx?c=moa;cc=moa;rgn=full%20text;idno=acb0796.0003.001;didno=ACB0796.0003.001;view=image;seq=120;page=root;size=s;frm=frameset Irving, p.90].{{Citation needed|date=April 2011}} </ref>

The issue in the 1490s was not the shape of the Earth, but its size, and the position of the east coast of Asia, as Irving in fact points out. Historical estimates from [[Ptolemy]] onwards placed the coast of Asia about 180° east of the [[Canary Islands]].<ref>Ptolemy, ''Geography'', book 1:14.</ref> Columbus adopted an earlier (and rejected) distance of 225°, added 28° (based on [[Marco Polo|Marco Polo's]] travels), and then placed [[Japan]] another 30° further east. Starting from [[Cape St. Vincent]] in [[Portugal]], Columbus made [[Eurasia]] stretch 283° to the east, leaving the [[Atlantic]] as only 77° wide. Since he planned to leave from the Canaries (9° further west), his trip to Japan would only have to cover 68° of longitude.<ref>{{Harvnb|Morison|1942}}, vol. 1, p. 65; {{Harvnb|Nunn|Edwards|1924}}, pp. 27–30.</ref>

Columbus mistakenly used a much shorter length for a degree (he substituted the shorter 1480 m Italian "mile" for the longer 2177 m Arabic "mile"), making his degree (and the circumference of the Earth) about 75% of what it really was.<ref>{{Harvnb|Nunn|Edwards|1924}}, pp. 1–2, 27–30.</ref> The combined effect of these mistakes was that Columbus estimated the distance to Japan to be only about 5,000 km (or only to the eastern edge of the [[Caribbean]]) while the true figure is about 20,000 km. The Spanish scholars may not have known the exact distance to the east coast of Asia, but they believed that it was significantly further than Columbus' projection; and this was the basis of the criticism in Spain and Portugal, whether academic or amongst mariners, of the proposed voyage.

The disputed point was not the shape of the Earth, nor the idea that going west would eventually lead to Japan and China, but the ability of European ships to sail that far across open seas. The small ships of the day (Columbus' three ships varied between 20.5 and 23.5 m – or 67 to 77 feet – in length and carried about 90 men) simply could not carry enough food and water to reach Japan. The ships barely reached the eastern Caribbean islands. Already the crews were mutinous, not because of some fear of "sailing off the edge", but because they were running out of food and water with no chance of any new supplies within sailing distance. They were on the edge of starvation.<ref>{{Harvnb|Morison|1942}}, pp. 209, 211.</ref>
What saved Columbus was the unknown existence of the Americas precisely at the point he thought he would reach Japan. His ability to resupply with food and water from the Caribbean islands allowed him to return safely to Europe. Otherwise his crews would have died, and the ships foundered.

===Letronne, Whewell and Flammarion===
In 1834, a few years after the publication of Irving's book, [[Jean Antoine Letronne]], a French academic of strong antireligious ideas, misrepresented the [[church fathers]] and their medieval successors as believing in a flat earth, in his ''On the Cosmographical Ideas of the Church Fathers''.<ref>{{Harvnb|Russell|1997}}.{{page needed|date=April 2011}}</ref> Then, in 1837, the English philosopher of science [[William Whewell]] first identified, in his ''History of the Inductive Sciences'', two minimally significant characters named [[Lactantius]] (245–325, also mocked by [[Copernicus]] in [[De revolutionibus]] of 1543, as someone who ''speaks quite childishly about the Earth's shape, when he mocks those who declared that the Earth has the form of a globe'') and [[Cosmas Indicopleustes]], who wrote his "[[Christian Topography]]" in 547–549. Whewell pointed to them as evidence of a medieval belief in a Flat Earth, and other historians quickly followed him, although they could identify few other examples.<ref>{{Harvnb|Gould|1997|p=42}}</ref>

The widely circulated engraving of a man poking his head through the firmament surrounding the Earth to view the [[Empyrean]], executed in the style of the 16th century was published in [[Camille Flammarion]]'s ''L'Atmosphère: Météorologie Populaire'' (Paris, 1888, p. 163).<ref>[http://homepage.mac.com/kvmagruder/flatEarth/source.html History_of_Science_Collections]</ref> The engraving illustrates the statement in the text that a medieval missionary claimed that "he reached the horizon where the Earth and the heavens met". In its original form, the engraving included a decorative border that places it in the 19th century; in later publications, some claiming that the engraving did, in fact, date to the 16th century, the border was removed. Flammarion, according to anecdotal evidence, had commissioned the ''[[Flammarion engraving]]'' himself.

=== 20th century ===
Since the early 20th century, a number of books and articles have documented the flat earth error as one of a number of widespread misconceptions in popular [[Medievalism|views of the Middle Ages]]. The misconception has had no currency in historical scholarship since at least 1920, but it persisted in popular culture and in some school textbooks into the 1960s. Both E.M.W. Tillyard's book ''The Elizabethan World Picture'' and C.S. Lewis' ''The Discarded Image'' are devoted to a broad survey of how the universe was viewed in Renaissance and medieval times, and both extensively discuss how the educated classes knew the world was round. Lewis draws attention to the fact that in Dante's ''The Divine Comedy'' about an epic voyage through hell, purgatory, and heaven, the earth is spherical with gravity being towards the center of the earth. As the devil is frozen in a block of ice in the center of the earth, Dante and Virgil climb down the devil's torso, but up from the devil's waist to his feet, as his waist is at the center of the earth.

An American schoolbook by Emma Miller Bolenius published in 1919 has this introduction to the suggested reading for [[Columbus Day]] (12 October):
{{quote|1=|2=When Columbus lived, people thought that the earth was flat. They believed the Atlantic Ocean to be filled with monsters large enough to devour their ships, and with fearful waterfalls over which their frail vessels would plunge to destruction. Columbus had to fight these foolish beliefs in order to get men to sail with him. He felt sure the earth was round.<ref>
{{Harvnb|Bolenius|1919}} quoted in {{Harvnb|Garwood|2007}}.</ref>}}

Previous editions of [[Thomas A. Bailey|Thomas Bailey]]'s ''[[The American Pageant]]'' stated that ''"The superstitious sailors [of Columbus' crew] ... grew increasingly mutinous...because they were fearful of sailing over the edge of the world"''; however, no such historical account is known.<ref>{{Harvnb|Loewen|1996}}, p. 56.</ref>  The 1937 popular song, [[They All Laughed (song)|''They All Laughed'']] contains the couplet "They all laughed at Christopher Columbus/When he said the world was round". In the Warner Bros. ''Merrie Melodies'' cartoon ''[[Hare We Go]]'' (1951) Christopher Columbus and Ferdinand the Catholic quarrel about the shape of the earth. The king states the earth is flat. In Walt Disney's 1963 animation ''[[The Sword in the Stone (film)|The Sword in the Stone]]'', wizard Merlin (who has traveled into the future) explains to his apprentice that "One day they will discover that the earth is round". [[Jeffrey Burton Russell]] rebutted the prevalence of belief in the flat earth in the monograph 1991 [Russell, Jeffrey Burton (1991), Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and modern historians, New York: Praeger, ISBN 0-275-95904-X] and the paper 1997 [Russell, Jeffrey Burton (1997), "The Myth of the Flat Earth", Studies in the History of Science (American Scientific Affiliation), retrieved 2007-07-14]. Louise Bishop (2008) states that virtually every thinker and writer of the 1000-year medieval period affirmed the spherical shape of the earth.<ref>{{Harvnb|Bishop|2008|p=99}}.</ref>

==See also==
* [[List of common misconceptions]]
* [[T and O map]]
* [[Mappa mundi]]
* [[Armillary sphere#History|Armillary sphere]]
* [[Pope Sylvester II#Armillary_sphere_and_sighting_tube|Pope Sylvester II]]

==Notes==
{{Reflist|2}}

==References==
*{{Citation
|first1 = Louise M. |last1 = Bishop
|year = 2008
|chapter = The Myth of the Flat Earth
|editor1-first = Stephen J. |editor1-last = Harris
|editor2-first = Bryon Lee |editor2-last = Grigsby
|title = Misconceptions about the Middle Ages
|publisher = Routledge
|isbn = 978-0-415-77053-8
}}
*{{Citation
|first1 = Emma Miller |last1 = Bolenius
|title= The Boys' and Girls' Reader: Fifth Reader
|publisher= Houghton Mifflin
|year=1919
}}
*{{Citation
|first1 = Christine |last1 = Garwood
|title= Flat Earth: the history of an infamous idea
|publisher= Macmillan
|year= 2007
|isbn= 0-312-38208-1
}}
*{{Citation
|first1 = E. H. |last1 = Gombrich
|year = 1969
|title = Bosch's "Garden of Earthly Delights": A progress report
|journal = Journal of the Warbourg and Courtauld Institutes
|volume = 32 |pages = 162–170
|url = http://www.jstor.org/stable/750611
}}
*{{Citation
| first1 = Stephen J. | last1 = Gould
| authorlink = Stephen Jay Gould
| year = 1997
| chapter = The late birth of a flat earth
| title = Dinosaur in a Haystack: Reflections in Natural History
| publisher = Three Rivers Press
| location = New York
| pages = 38–50
| edition=1st pbk.
| isbn = 0-517-88824-6
| url = http://www.inf.fu-berlin.de/lehre/SS05/efs/materials/FlatEarth.pdf
}}
*{{Citation
| first1 = Washington | last1 = Irving
| authorlink = Washington Irving
| title = The Works of Washington Irving
| publisher = University of Michigan Library
| year = 1861
| url = http://name.umdl.umich.edu/acb0796.0003.001
| accessdate = 2008-08-19
}}
*{{Citation
| first1 = David C. | last1 = Lindberg
| author-link = David C. Lindberg
| first2 = Ronald L. | last2 = Numbers
| author2-link = Ronald L. Numbers
| title = Beyond War and Peace: A Reappraisal of the Encounter between Christianity and Science
| journal = Church History
| volume = 55 | issue = 3 | pages = 338–354
| publisher = Cambridge University Press
| year = 1986
| doi = 10.2307/3166822
| jstor = 3166822
}}
*{{Citation
|first1 = James. W. |last1 = Loewen
|year = 1996
|title = Lies My Teacher Told Me: Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong
|publisher = Touchstone Books
|isbn = 978-0-684-81886-3
}}
*{{Citation
| last= Members of the Historical Association
| title= Common errors in history
| publisher = P.S. King & Staples for the Historical Association
| year= 1945
| location= London
| others= General Series, G.1
}}
*{{Citation
|ref = CITEREFMorison1942
|first1 = Samuel Eliot |last1 = Morison
|authorlink = Samuel Eliot Morison
|year = [1942] 1991
|title = Admiral of the Ocean Sea. A Life of Christopher Columbus
|publisher = Little, Brown & Co.
|isbn = 0-316-58478-9
}}
*{{Citation
|ref = CITEREFNunnEdwards1924
|first1 = George E. |last1 = Nunn
|first2 = Clinton R. |last2 = Edwards
|year = [1924] 1992
|title = The Geographical Conceptions of Columbus
|publisher = [[American Geographical Society]] Golda Meir Library
|location = Milwaukee, Wisconsin, U.S.A.
|isbn = 1-879281-06-6
}}
*{{Citation
| first1= Jeffrey Burton | last1= Russell
| authorlink = Jeffrey Burton Russell
| title= Inventing the Flat Earth: Columbus and modern historians
| publisher= Praeger
| year= 1991
| location= New York
| isbn= 0-275-95904-X
}}
*{{Citation
| first1 = Jeffrey Burton | last1 = Russell
| authorlink = Jeffrey Burton Russell
| title = The Myth of the Flat Earth
| work = Studies in the History of Science
| publisher = [[American Scientific Affiliation]]
| year = 1997
| url = http://www.asa3.org/ASA/topics/history/1997Russell.html
| doi =
| accessdate = 2007-07-14
}}
*{{Citation
|first1 = David B. |last1 = Wilson
|year = 2002
|contribution= The Historiography of Science and Religion
|editor1-first = Gary B. |editor2-last = Ferngren
|title = Science and Religion: A Historical Introduction
|publisher = Johns Hopkins University Press
|isbn =0-8018-7038-0
}}

{{Use dmy dates|date=August 2011}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Myth Of The Flat Earth}}
[[Category:Pseudohistory]]
[[Category:Flat Earth theory]]
}}

Le Coran et la Terre plate

2013-06-10T22:38:42Z

Alt: /* Introduction */

{{Quote||"La terre est plate. Quiconque clame qu'elle est sphérique est un athée méritant un châtiment." 

- '''Cheikh 'Abdul-'Aziz Ibn Baaz, autorité religieuse suprême d'Arabie Saoudite, 1993''' <ref>autorité religieuse suprême d'Arabie Saoudite, 1993 - édité dans "[{{Reference archive|1=http://www.nytimes.com/1995/02/12/world/muslim-edicts-take-on-new-force.html|2=2011-11-30}} Les édits musulmans prennent une nouvelle force]", New York Times, 12 février 1995.</ref><ref>Sheikh Abdul Aziz Ben Baz (1395 AH [1974 AD]), ''"Evidence that the Earth is Standing Still"'', Islamic University of Medina, Saudi Arabia. First edition, p. 23.</ref>}}
[[File:Flat Earth The Wonders of Creation.jpg|right|thumb|175px|D' "Acai-ul Makhlukat" ("les Merveilles de la Création") de Zekeriya Kazvinî. Traduit de l'arabe vers le turc. Istanbul: vers 1553. Cette carte montre "une projection musulmane traditionnelle du monde comme un disque plat entouré de mers arrêtées par les montagnes du Qaf tout autour".<ref>[http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/world/earth.html Views of the Earth] - Trésors mondiaux de la Bibliothèque du Congrès, 29 juillet 2010</ref> ]]
== Introduction ==

La connaissance de la terre non-plate, aujourd'hui, à notre époque, serait plutôt difficile à renier. Nous avons l'imagerie satellite, des témoignages venant directement d'astronautes lors de nombreuses missions spatiales, et ainsi de suite. Mais qu'en est-il du passé, avant la création de ces inventions modernes que nous considérons souvent comme garanties? [[File:Charlemagneglobe.jpg|right|thumb|150px|Charlemagne, premier empereur de l'Empire carolingien (742-814), représenté dans une statue du IXème siècle, tenant un globe représentant le monde, preuve que la terre était considérée comme sphérique.]]Le caractère sphérique de la terre n'est-il connu que par nous grâce à nos appareils avantageux? La réponse à cette question est un clair 'non'.<ref>Pour plus de détails voyez: [[Islamic Inventions? How Islamic Inventors Did Not Change The World#Earth_is_round|Comment les inventeurs musulmans n'ont pas changé le monde/ La Terre est ronde]]</ref><ref>[http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_de_la_Terre_dans_l%27Antiquit%C3%A9 Mythe de la Terre plate] - Wikipédia, 1 juillet 2011</ref>

Le fait que la terre n'est pas plate est connu depuis des milliers d'années. Les grecs Pythagore (570 - 495 av. J.C.), Aristote (384 - 322 av. J.C.) et Hipparque (190 - 120 av. J.C.) le savaient bien. L'astronome et mathématicien indien Aryabhata (476 - 550 ap. J.C.) le savait. Les savants chrétiens des premiers temps du christianisme tels qu'Anicius Boèce (480 - 524 ap. J.C.), l'évêque Isidore de Séville (560 - 636 ap.J.C.), l'évêque Raban Maur (780 - 856 ap. J.C.), le moine Bède (672 - 735 ap. J.C.), l'évêque Virgile de Salzburg (700 - 784 ap. J.C.) et saint Thomas d'Aquin (1225 - 1274 ap. J.C.) le savaient tout autant. En réalité, contrairement à ce que l'on peut souvent lire ou entendre, le caractère sphérique de la terre était une connaissance répandue chez les européens du début du Moyen-Âge, et le Saint-Empire romain utilisait dès 395 ap. J.C. une orbe pour représenter la terre sphérique. (Référence nécessaire).

Il est certain que si le [[Qur'an|Coran]] est une dictée venant, lettre par lettre, d'[[Allah]], il serait d'accord, informerait sur ce fait qui était connu à travers le monde ''avant'' sa révélation, et contredirait la vision de la terre plate telle que les bédouins d'Arabie y croyaient au 7ème siècle.

== Analyses des versets du Coran ==
=== Verset 15:19 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|15|19}}|''' والارض مددناها''' والقينا فيها رواسي وانبتنا فيها من كل شئ موزون'''

Wa al-ardha m[a]dednaha wa al-qayna fiha r[a]wasiya wa anb[a]tna fiha min kulli chey-in mawzunin

'''Et quant à la terre, Nous l'avons étalée''' (comme un tapis*); et y avons jeté des montagnes, et fait pousser dedans de toute chose équilibrée. }}
مَدَدْ = maded = prolonger, atteindre, allonger, faire une extension, étirer, rallonger, tirer, étaler, étendre, dilater, pénétrer.

[Il s'agit d'une note de la version anglaise]

=== Verset 20:53 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|20|53}}| '''الذي جعل لكم الارض مهدا''' وسلك لكم فيها سبلا وانزل من السماء ماء فاخرجنا به ازواجا من نبات شتى

Al-lathi jaﻋala lakumu al-ardham[a]hdan wassal[a]k[a] likum fiha subulan wa anz[a]l[a] mina as-s[a]ma-ima'n fakhr[a]jna bihi azwajan min n[a]bat chatta

'''Lui qui vous a assigné la terre comme berceau''', et vous y a acheminé des chemins; et qui du ciel a fait descendre de l'eau.» Puis, par elle, Nous avons fait sortir par couples différentes plantes.}}
مَهْدًا = mahdan = (Nom) berceau ou lit, (verbe:) aplatir, assouplir, lisser, niveler, cimenter, classer, enfoncer, rouler.

=== Verset 43:10 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|43|10}}| '''الذي جعل لكم الارض مهدا''' وجعل لكم فيها سبلا لعلكم تهتدون

Al-lathi j[a]ﻋ[a]l[a] l[a]kumu al-ardh[a]m[a]hdan waj[a]ﻋ[a]l[a] l[a]kum fiha subulan laﻋ[a]lakum t[a]ht[a]dun[a]

'''Lequel vous a étalé la terre, afin d'en faire berceau, ''', et vous y a assigné des sentiers, –peut-être vous guideriez-vous?–}}
مَهْدًا = mahdan = (Nom) berceau ou lit, (verbe:) aplatir, lisser, assouplir, niveler, cimenter, classer, enfoncer, rouler.

=== Verset 50:7 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|50|7}}| '''والارض مددناها''' والقينا فيها رواسي وانبتنا فيها من كل زوج بهيج

Wa al-ardh[a] madadnaha wa al-qayna fiha r[a]wasiya wa anb[a]tna fiha min kulli zawjin b[a]hijin

'''Et la terre, que Nous avons étalée!''' et Nous y avons lancé des montagnes et y avons fait croître de tout couple joli! }}
مَدَدْ = maded = prolonger, atteindre, allonger, faire une extension, étirer, rallonger, tirer, étaler, étendre, dilater, pénétrer.

=== Verset 51:48 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|51|48}}| والارض فرشناها فنعم الماهدون

Wa al-ardh[a] f[a]r[a]chnaha f[a]niﻋm[a] al-mahidun[a]

Et la terre, Nous l'avons faite lit. Et quel excellent berceur Nous sommes! }}
فَرَشَْ = faracha = meubler, aplatir, étaler, écraser, circuler, cimenter, classer, éventer, étirer, atteindre, défoncer, étaler, allonger, déplier, tourner, rouler.

الْمَهِدُونَ à partir d'مَهِدُ = aplatir, détendre, assouplir, lisser, bercer, écraser, rouler, aplatir.

=== Verset 71:19 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|71|19}}| والله جعل لكم الارض بساطا

Wa Allahu jaﻋala lakumu al-ardh[a] bisaṭan
Et c'est Allah qui vous a assigné la terre comme tapis (étalé), }}
بِسَاطًا = bisaṭan = droguet (étoffe de laine et de fil)<ref>http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/droguet</ref>, tapis, moquette,
à partir du verbe بسط = étaler, aplatir, égaliser, écraser, mettre à niveau, rendre atteignable, paver, lisser, rouler, cimenter.

=== Verset 78:6 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|78|6}}| الم نجعل الارض مهادا

Al[a]m n[a]jﻋ[a]li al-ardha mihadan

N'avons nous pas désigné la terre plate [et sans obstacle],}}
مهاد = pays plat, plat, plain, aplati.

=== Verset 79:30 ===
Beaucoup d'apologistes musulmans ont essayé de détourner la critique disant que le Coran promeut la croyance erronée que la terre est plate en se fixant sur le terme ''dahaha'' utilisé dans le verset 79:30 du Coran, communément traduit par "écarté", "étalé" ou "étiré".
{{Quote|{{Quran|79|30}}| '''En arabe:''' والارض بعد ذلك دحاها

'''Translittération:''' ''Wa al-ardh[a] baﻋd[a] dhalika dahaha''
'''Littéralement:''' Et la terre/planète Terre après qu'il souffla dessus et l'étala. <ref name="ia-79-30">[http://islamawakened.org/Quran/3/default.htm#003_054 Islam Awakened - Verset 79:30]</ref> }}
==== Traductions du Coran ====
{{quote ||
'''Hamidullah:''' Et quant à la terre, en plus de cela, Il l'a étendue: }}
{{quote ||
'''Claude Savary:''' Il étendit la terre ; }}
{{quote ||
'''Hisnulmuslim:''' de même qu’Il a, ensuite, étendu la terre, }}
{{quote ||
'''André Chouraqui:''' Il déploie la terre <ref>http://nachouraqui.tripod.com/id16.htm</ref>}}
{{quote ||
'''Coran de la Mosquée de Lyon:''' Et quant à la terre, après cela, Il l'a étendue: <ref>[http://www.mosquee-lyon.org/?cat=Coran Coran de la Mosquée de Lyon, sourate 79 verset 30.]</ref> }}

Quelques traductions ont cherché à traduire le terme ''dahaha'' de manière à ce qu'il signifie "en forme d'œuf", ou encore "œuf d'autruche".
{{quote ||
'''Khalifa:''' Il fit la terre en forme d'œuf. <ref name="ia-79-30"/> }}

==== Apologistes musulmans ====
{{quote || De toutes manières, pour répondre à votre question qui est "pourquoi Allah le Tout-puissant a-t-il utilisé le terme "dahaha" dans le noble Verset 79:30", est bien c'est parce que c'est le mot le plus précis de tous. Il décrit la rondeur et le caractère plat de la terre à la fois. <ref>[http://web.archive.org/web/20071227021224/http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth_in_islam.htm Answering Christianity sur l'usage du mot dahaha]</ref>}}
D'autres clament aussi que la racine de dahaha est duhiya qui signifie "œuf d'autruche".
{{quote || 4. La terre est géo-sphérique dans sa forme

Le Coran mentionne la véritable forme de la terre dans le verset suivant:

“Et Nous fîmes la terre en forme d'œuf”. [Al-Qur’an 79:30]

Le mot arabe "dahaha" signifie "en forme d'œuf". Il veut dire aussi "une largeur". "Dahaha" dérive de "Duhiya" qui se réfère spécifiquement à l'œuf d'un autruche qui est sphérique dans sa forme, exactement comme la terre.

Ainsi le Coran et la science établie actuelle sont en parfaite harmonie. <ref>[http://www.islamicvoice.com/February2006/QuestionHour-DrZakirNaik/?PHPSESSID=c30907389ab7486d8886b1a992e9ae1a Q & A (Questions et réponses) - Zakir Naik - dahaha]</ref>}}
Cependant, beaucoup de musulmans s'accrochent toujours à la croyance que ''dahaha'' signifie "œuf d'autruche", malgré la fausseté scientifique que cela représente en ce que la terre est sphéroïde oblate alors que l'œuf d'autruche est un sphéroïde prolate. Ainsi la terre est l'œuf d'autruche sont dissemblables en trois dimensions.

Une autre idée avancée par les apologistes consiste à parler d'un jeu joué par les Mecquois pour essayer de lier ''dahaha'' à la rondeur.

{{quote || Au verset 79:30, Allah dit,

[Translittération] Wa al-ardha baﻋda thalika dahaha [79:30]

Le mot clé dans le verset ci-dessus est “dahaha”. En arabe, il y a une expression: “iza dahaha” ce qui signifie “quand il envoie les pierres par dessus le sol vers le trou”. Le trou est appelé “Udhiyatun”. “Almadahi” se réfère à des pierres rondes selon la taille du trou dans le sol dans lequel les pierres sont envoyées, dans ce jeu. “Almadahi” veut aussi dire quelque chose de rond fait par le travail d'un groupe de personnes. Il y a donc un sens de "RONDEUR" dans la racine du mot “dahaha”. D'après plusieurs étymologistes, le mot signifiant “œuf d'autruche” a la même racine que “dahaha”. Ils retirent de cela l'idée que la terre a la forme d'un œuf d'autruche. Les dernières découvertes scientifiques confirment que la terre n'est pas entièrement sphérique, mais qu'il s'agit d'un ellipsoïde, car aplati à ses pôles, [comme la forme d'un œuf d'autruche].

Les mots arabes pour “plat” ou “nivelé” ou encore “de forme plate” sont “sawi” et “al-mustawi”. Il n'y a pas un seul endroit dans le Coran où il est indiqué que la terre est "plate" ou “de forme aplatie”. Le mot “farach” aux versets 2:22, 51:48; le mot “wasia” utilisé dans les versets 4:97, 29:56, 30:10; le terme “mahd” à 20:53, 43:10, 78:6; le mot “basaat” au verset 71:19; le mot “suttihat” à 88:20; et le terme “tahaha” au verset 91:6, tous ces mots peuvent signifier, “étaler”, “écarter” ou “se prolonger” avec des nuances dans leurs connotations mais aucun ne signifie que la terre est aplatie ou plate. <ref>[http://www.quranicteachings.co.uk/earth-shape.htm QuranTeachings.co.uk - 79:30]</ref>}}
L'argument islamique disant qu'"almadahi" et qu'"udhiyatun" contiennent l'idée de rondeur qu'ils lient à la racine de ''dahaha'' est fausse parce que la "rondeur" d'"almadahi" et d'"udhiyatun" est seulement en deux dimensions. L'"almadahi" est rond comme un morceau de pain arabe (qui est souvent de la forme d'un disque) et l'"udhiyatun" est aussi rond en deux dimensions. Néanmoins, l'un des sens de "dahaha" est "envoyer", "jeter" et c'est de la que viennent les dérivés "almadahi" et "udhiyatun".

==== Daha et Duhiya ====
En arabe, chaque mot dérive d'une racine. La racine consiste habituellement en trois lettres et elle est modifiée par l'ajout de voyelles, de préfixes et de suffixes afin de produire différents mots avec des sens différents. Par exemple: "ka-ta-ba" (écrire) est la racine de nombreux mots tels que "kitab" (livre), "maktaba" (bibliothèque), "kàtib" (auteur), "maktub" (écrit), kitabat (écrits) etc.

Prenons maintenant le terme mentionné signifiant "œuf d'autruche": "Duhiya". Ce mot n'est ''pas'' une racine. C'est un nom et il est dérivé de (la racine) "da-ha-wa", la racine dont vient le terme "dahaha". De plus, "Duhiya" ne signifie même pas "œuf d'autruche". Voici ce que disent les dictionnaires les plus respectables, sur ce sujet:

===== Lissan Al 'Arab =====
{{quote || الأُدْحِيُّ و الإدْحِيُّ و الأُدْحِيَّة و الإدْحِيَّة و الأُدْحُوّة مَبِيض النعام في الرمل , وزنه أُفْعُول من ذلك , لأَن النعامة تَدْحُوه برِجْلها ثم تَبِيض فيه وليس للنعام عُشٌّ . و مَدْحَى النعام : موضع بيضها , و أُدْحِيُّها موضعها الذي تُفَرِّخ فيه .ِ}}
Traduction: Al-udhy, Al-idhy, Al-udhiyya, Al-idhiyya, Al-udhuwwa: La place dans le sable où l'autruche pond son œuf. L'autruche creuse la terre (ou le sable) avec ses pieds, quand elle va pondre: une autruche n'a pas de nid.

{{quote || الدَّحْوُ البَسْطُ . دَحَا الأَرضَ يَدْحُوها دَحْواً بَسَطَها . وقال الفراء في قوله والأَرض بعد ذلك دَحاها قال : بَسَطَها ; قال شمر : وأَنشدتني أَعرابية : الحمدُ لله الذي أَطاقَا

بَنَى السماءَ فَوْقَنا طِباقَا

ثم دَحا الأَرضَ فما أَضاقا

قال شمر : وفسرته فقالت دَحَا الأَرضَ أَوْسَعَها ; وأَنشد ابن بري لزيد بن عمرو بن نُفَيْل : دَحَاها , فلما رآها اسْتَوَتْ

على الماء , أَرْسَى عليها الجِبالا

و دَحَيْتُ الشيءَ أَدْحاهُ دَحْياً بَسَطْته , لغة في دَحَوْتُه ; حكاها اللحياني . وفي حديث عليّ وصلاتهِ , اللهم دَاحِيَ المَدْحُوَّاتِ يعني باسِطَ الأَرَضِينَ ومُوَسِّعَها , ويروى ; دَاحِيَ المَدْحِيَّاتِ . و الدَّحْوُ البَسْطُ . يقال : دَحَا يَدْحُو و يَدْحَى أَي بَسَطَ ووسع }}
Traduction: Faire daha le sol: l'éparpiller, l'étendre (à l'extérieur).
Le dictionnaire mentionne ensuite quelques poèmes arabes confirmant ce sens. Quiconque lit l'arabe comprendra que c'est la preuve définitive que "Daha" signifie "étendre [à l'extérieur]", "déployer".

===== Al Qamoos Al Muhit =====
{{quote || (دَحَا): الله الأرضَ
(يَدْحُوهَا وَيَدْحَاهَا دَحْواً) بَسَطَها}}
Traduction: Allah daha la Terre: Il l'étala.

===== Al Wasiit =====
{{quote || دَحَا الشيءَ: بسطه ووسعه. يقال: دحا اللهُ الأَرض }}
Traduction: Faire daha quelque chose: l'étaler, le déployer. Par exemple: Allah daha la Terre.

===== Lexique de Lane =====
{{quote ||2= Dhahilath voir ''dahl'', vers la fin du paragraphe. "dhahhal" Quelqu'un qui blesse, ou attrape [lors d'un] jeu, en utilisant le dhahool comme dans le vers cité voce dhahool l. (TA.) Dhahil Plein de rancœur, malveillant, malin, porteur de dépit; cachant l'inimitié, violent dans sa coiffure, dans son cœur, et porté à exercer cette violence. (Az, TA.)

Dhahool (mot arabisé venant du persan ''Dhakhool'') Quelque chose que place le chasseur de gazelles (afin de les effrayer au lieu où elles vivent, ou dans ses environs), consistant en un ensemble de morceaux de bois: (S : ) ou quelque chose que pose le chasseur (dans l'intérêt d'effrayer) les ânes (sauvages), (K, TA,) et les gazelles, (TA,) consistant en morceaux de bois, échardes assez grosses (K,* TA) placées dans le sol, avec quelques tissus au dessus, et parfois placées la nuit, pour (effrayer) la gazelle, à côté d'une lampe allumée; (TA; ) (d'où) Dhu-r-Rummeh qui dit:
 Wa Yashrabna Ajnan Wannujoomu Ka’annaha
 Masabeeh dahhalin Yuzakkee Zubalaha

(Et ils boivent de l'eau qui est rendue mauvaises dans le goût et la couleur, pendant que les étoiles sont comme les lampes du chasseur au moyen du dhahool quand il briller leurs mèches fort.): (TA : ) le pl. est dawaheel (K.)

Dahw

1. Daha (., MM_b;,, 1,) première personne. Dahouth aor, yad'hoo inf. N. dahoo Il étala; étaler vers l'extérieur ou au loin; élargi ou étendu; (S, Msb, K; ) une chose; (K; ) et, quand on mentionne Dieu, la terre; (Fr, S, Mb, 1V; ) Également daha première personne. dahaithu (K en art. daha) aor. yaad’heae inf. n. dahae: (Msb, et K en art. dahae : ) ou Il (Dieu) fit la Terre large, ou ample; comme expliqué à Ch. par une arabe du désert: (TA : ) aussi, quand on mentionne une autruche (S, TA,) elle étala ou élargit, (TA,) avec sa patte, ou jambe, le lieu où elle dépose ses œufs: (S, TA : ) et, dit d'un homme: il étala, &c., aplati ou lissa. (TA dans l'art. dhaha ) - Aussi, dit d'un homme, (K,,) aor. yad’hoo, inf. n. dahwu(TA,) i.q. Jamie et aussi daja; sous l'autorité de 1Abr. (TA.) (Vous dites, dhahaha Il la compressa; comme vous dites aussi, dhajaha.) _ Aussi il lança, ou jeta, et pousser, propulsé, retirer de sa place -une pierre, avec sa main (TA.) On dit aussi, de celui qui joue avec des noix, "abidil maddha wa adhhuhu", ce qui signifie (Prendre une grande distance, et) [les] lancer. (S,TA.: Voir aussi midh’hath, en deux endroits. Et d'un torrent on dit "dhaha bilbat’hai" Il se lance (sur la douce terre et les galets dans son cours; ou les fait circuler avec lui). (TA.) Et de la pluie, on dit, "dhaha Al hissa an waj’hil Ardhi" (S,Msb) Elle fait circuler les galets sur la surface de la terre; (Msb; ) ou les a fait bouger. (TA.) (Voir aussi dhaha, dans l'art. suivant.) Et "aldhahwu bilhijarathi" signifie aussi Le rival, [contre son rival], au lancer de pierres, essayant de le surpasser (en faisant ainsi); et aussi al-Midahath (inf. n- de dahee). (TA marra yad’hoo inf.n. dahow dit d'un cheval: Il vint s'élançant avec ses pattes de devant sans trop relever ses sabots du sol. (S,TA.) = dhahal bathan Le ventre était, ou devint, large, et pendant; (Kr, K; ) et Indhahee (le ventre) était, ou devin large, ou distendu: (MF : ) les deux signifient que (le ventre) se gonfla, ou s'enfla, ou grossit,. et pendait, à cause du gras ou d'une maladie; comme aussi Dhau et Indah (TA dans l'art. dooh.)
 3. Dhahee inf.n. Mudahath: see 1.
 5. Thud'hee Il [s']étala, ou s'étendit; syn. Thabassuth. (K: dans l'art. Daha.): Vous dites "nama fulan fathadhahha" Un tel [être] dormit, et (s'étendit de manière à ce qu'il) gise sur un espace vide de terre (TA dans cet art.) - Et "thadhahhathil ibilu fil ardhi" Les chameaux firent des trous dans le sol où ils se couchèrent, comme il était doux/maniable; y laissant des cavités comme (de la forme de) celles des ventres: ils ne font ainsi que s'ils sont gros. (El-'Itreefee, TA dans l'art. Daha. )
 7. voir 1, dernière phrase.
 9. id'havi (de la mesure if’alath pour if’alle comme Ar’awa) Cela (une chose, TA) était, ou devint, étalé, étendu vers l'extérieur ou l'avant, agrandi ou extendu. (K.)

*Dhahin (act. part. n. de 1). "Allahumma dhahil Mad’huwwath" dans une prière de ‘Ali, signifie: "Ô Dieu Celui qui étale et agrandit les (sept) terres": (TA : ) al Mdhuwwath (littéralement) signifie les choses qui sont étalées, &c.; comme également Al Mudh’hiyyath. (TA dans l'art. dhaha ) _ "Al’Matharuddahi" La pluie qui déplace (ou fait couler) les galets de la surface de la terre. (TA.)

Ud'hiyy (S.K) (Originellement ''od'huwa'' de la mesure Uf’ool de ''dhahaithu'' dans le S pour être de la mesure de ''dhahouthu'' le dial. var. dhahaithu n'y étant pas mentionné,) et id’hiyy et Ud’hiyyath et ud’huwwath (K) Le lieu où l'on pond ses œufs, (S, K,) et où ils éclosent, (S,) [les œufs] de l'autruche, (S. K. ) dans le sable; (K; ) parce que cet oiseau le creuse, et l'élargit, avec son pied, ou sa jambe; parce que l'autruche n'a pas (de nid proprement dit) Ush (S: ) pl. Adahin (TA dans le présent art.) et Adahi (c'est-à-dire, s'il ne s'agit pas d'une mauvaise transcription, Adahiyyu s'accordant avec le singulier.): (TA dans l'art. dhaha et mudhhiyya (de même) signifie le lieu des œufs de l'autruche. (S.) (De là,) binthu Adh’hiyyathun Une autruche femelle. (TA.)_(De là aussi,) Al Udkhiyyu et Al Id’hiyyu Une certaine étape dans la course de la lune, (K, TA,) (à savoir, la vingt-et-unième étape,) entre le Na’aai’m sa’dha zabih (plus communément) appelé Al Baldath lié à l'''Adhahhi'' de l'autruche. (TA.)

Ud’huwwath et udh’hiyyath: Voir le paragraphe précédent en trois endroits: - et pour le deuxième voir aussi ''mid’hath'', ci-dessous.

Mad’han voir ud’hiyy

Mid’hath Une chose en bois avec laquelle un enfant marche (yud’ha), et laquelle, passée sur le sol, balaie tout ce qui vient contre elle (K, TA.) - D'apr. Sh, Une certaine chose avec laquelle les habitants de la Mecque jouent: il dit: "J'ai entendu El-Asadi la décrire ainsi: Almadahiyy et Almasadiyy signifient des pierres comme le (petit gâteau de pain rond appelé) qursath, selon la taille du trou qui est crevé, et étalé un petit peu: ils lancent ensuite les pierres (yad’hoona biha) vers le trou, et si la pierre y tombe, la personne gagne; mais sinon, elle est vaincue: on dit d'elle yad’hu et yasdu quand elle lance les pierres (Iza dhahaha) du sol vers le trou: et le trou est appelé ud'hiyyath. (TA.) (Selon Freytag, l'autorité de la Diwan El-Hudhaliyin, une chose ronde faite de plombe, par le lancement de laquelle les gens concourent.)

Pour Almadhuwwath et almad’hiyyath voir Dahin,

Dhaha

1. Dhaha première pers. Dhahaithu, aor. yad’ha inf.n. dhah’ya: voir 1 art. Dhahoo.__ dhahaithul ibil (K,) inf. n. tel qu'au-dessus, (TA,) J'ai emmené le chameau,; (K; ) comme aussi dhahaithuha (TA.)

(4 mentionné par Freytag comme étant l'autorité sur le K est une erreur du 5)

5 (mentionné dans cet art. dans le V et TA): voir art. Dhahoo

7 (mentionné dans cet art. par MF): voir art. Dhahoo.

Dhah’yath Une seule action de dhahy, c'est-à-dire d'étalement, (Msb.) = Une guenon. (K.)
dhihyath Un mode, ou une manière de dhahyu, c'est-à-dire d'étalement, &c. (Msb.) = Un chef, la tête (d'un mouvement, etc.), (R, K, TA,) dans un sens absolu, dans le dial. d'El-Yemen, (R, TA,) et particulièrement d'une armée, ou d'une force militaire. (K, TA.) AA dit que cela signifie "un seigneur", ou "un chef" en persan; mais cela semble venir de dhahahu aor. yadh’hoohu, signifiant "il l'étala, et le rendit plat ou lisse" parce que c'est au chef de le faire; l'a. étant changé en LS comme il en est dans swibyath et fith’yath; et si c'est ainsi, il appartient à l'art. dahoo. (TA.) (Selon Golius, le pl. est dihau; mais je pense que c'est plus probablement dhahan.) Il est dans une trad. que ce qui est appelé Albaithul Ma’emoor (q.v. dans l'art. Amr) est pénétré chaque jour par mille compagnies d'anges, chacune d'entre elles ayant avec elles un dhih’yath et étant composée de soixante-dix mille anges. (TA.).

Ud’hiyyun et Id’hiyyun voir l'art. dhaha.

Ud’hiyyath: voir ud’hiyyu, dans l'art. dahoo, en deux endroits.<ref>[http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000023.pdf Lane's Lexicon - daha (PDF)] </ref>}}
Notez qu'une note plus haut indique que Lane traduit aussi dahaha par "le lieu où l'autruche pond ses œufs", et non pas les œufs eux-mêmes.

=== Verset 88:20 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|88|20}}| والى الارض كيف سطحت

Wa-il[a] al-ardhi keyf[a] suṭih[a]t

et la terre comme elle est nivelée?}}
Remarquez-vous le mot سَطَّحَ ? Si vous recherchez le mot dans le texte arabe du Coran vous trouverez que le mot سطحت est le féminin de سَطَّحَ

سَطَّحَ = étaler, déplier, dérouler, rouler, allonger, niveler, paver, se répandre, circuler, aplatir, atteindre, égaliser, étaler vers l'extérieur, aplanir, lisser.

=== Verset 91:6 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|91|6}}| والارض وماطحاها

Wa al-ardhi wama ṭ[a]haha

Et par la terre comme il l'a étendue!}}

== Preuves supplémentaires ==

===Verset 2:22===

{{Quote|{{Quran|2|22}}| الذي جعل لكم الارض فراشا والسماء بناء وانزل من السماء ماء فاخرج به من الثمرات رزقا لكم فلا تجعلوا لله اندادا وانتم تعلمون

Al-l[a]thi j[a]ﻋ[a]l[a] l[a]kumu al-ardh[a] firachan wa as-sama' binan wa anz[a]l[a] min[a] as-sama' man fakhr[a]j[a] bihi min[a} al-th[a]m[a]rati rizqan l[a]kum fal[a] t[a]jﻋ[a]lu lillahi andadan wa antum t[a]ﻋlamun[a]

Celui-là qui vous a fait la terre comme un lit et le ciel comme une tente; et qui du ciel a fait descendre de l'eau; puis par elle Il a fait sortir des fruits, votre portion. Ne donnez donc pas de rivaux à Dieu, alors que vous savez }}

Le mot traduit par "tente" est "binaa" ou "binan" ( بِنَاء ). Ce terme signifie "bâtiment". Les cieux sont un bâtiment à plusieurs étages au-dessus de la terre. Il y a cet niveaux ou étages à ce bâtiment appelé "ciel". Les cieux sont bâtis sur une fondation "plate" nommée "la terre". Le tafsir d'ibn Kathir confirme cette vision des choses:

{{quote || Ces ayat indiquent qu'Allah a commencé la création en bâtissant la terre, puis Il fit les cieux en sept cieux. C'est ainsi que les construction commencent habituellement, avec les bas étages d'abord puis les étages du haut, <ref>[http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1494 Tafsir 'ibn Kathir]</ref> }}

===Verset 18:86===

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|86}}| حتى اذا بلغ مغرب الشمس وجدها تغرب في عين حمئة ووجد عندها قوما قلنا ياذا القرنين اما ان تعذب واما ان تتخذ فيهم حسنا

Hatta itha b[a]lagha m[a]ghrib[a] ach-chamsi wa j[a]d[a]ha t[a]ghrubu fi ﻋaynin hami-atin wa waj[a]d[a] ﻋind[a]ha qawman qulna ye tha al-q[a]rn[a]yni imma an tuﻋathiba wa-imma an t[a]ttakhitha fihim husnan

Et quand il eut atteint le Couchant, il trouva le soleil se couchant dans une source bouillonnante, et, près d'elle, une peuplade. Nous dîmes: « Ô Dhou'l-Qarnaïn, ou tu châties, ou tu adoptes de la bienveillance à leur égard.» }}

Ce verset sur le [[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Controversy in the Qur'an|coucher du soleil]] dans une eau fangeuse supporte l'idée que la terre est plate.

===Verset 18:47===

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|47}}| ويوم نسير الجبال وترى الارض بارزة وحشرناهم فلم نغادر منهم احدا

Wa yawm[a] nusayyiru al-jibala wa t[a]r[a] al-ardha bariz[a]t[a]n wa h[a]ch[a]rnahum f[a]l[a]m nughadir minhum ah[a]dan

Et le jour où Nous ferons marcher les montagnes[!] et tu verras la terre devenir plaine! Et Nous les rassemblerons sans en abandonner aucun! }}

Dans ce verset on nous explique que ce sont les montagnes qui font que la terre n'est pas totalement plate.

===Verset 2:144===

{{Quote|{{Quran|2|144}}|Oui, nous te voyions le visage tourné vers le ciel. Eh bien, Nous te tournerons certainement vers une orientation qui te complaira. Tourne ton visage, donc, vers la sainte Mosquée. Où que vous soyez, tournez-y vos visages. Oui, et ceux à qui le Livre a été donné savent que voilà bien la vérité de la part de leur Seigneur. Et Dieu n'est pas inattentif à ce qu'ils font.}}

Ce verset demande à tous les musulmans de prier en direction de la [[Ka'aba]] (la qibla étant la direction que l'on doit prendre pour faire ceci). Ceci n'est possible qu'avec un modèle de terre plate. À cause du caractère sphérique de la terre, une prière dans n'importe quelle direction serait en fait dirigée vers le ciel/l'espace, pas vers la Mecque.
[[File:Verse 2-144.gif|right]]
Pour les gens qui prient à grande distance de la Mecque, leur qibla serait quelque part en direction du sol, et les gens vivant de l'autre 'côté' de la terre auraient à prier verticalement, en bas, vers le centre de la terre.

Comme remarqué par AIM, les musulmans situés dans les Îles Salomon blasphèment contre Allah, car ils défèquent en direction de la Ka'aba quand ils répondent à l'appel de la nature.<ref>Abu Taleb - [http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fislammonitor.org%2Findex.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D1382%26Itemid%3D63&date=2011-03-26 The Earth is Flat] - Australian Islamist Monitor, May 22, 2008</ref>

Même si nous utilisions la méthode traditionnelle musulmane pour étudier la qibla (c'est-à-dire un [[W:Grand cercle|grand cercle]]) cela serait quand même un blasphème car nous prierons en face de la Ka'aba et nous lui tournerions le dos à la fois.

En addition à toutes les preuves directes que nous avons donné, cela n'est qu'un des problèmes qui indiquent indirectement que le narrateur/écrivain du Coran croyait à un modèle de terre plate.

===Verset 2:187===

{{Quote|{{Quran|2|187}}|On vous a permis, la nuit du jeûne, de vous approcher de vos femmes; elles sont un vêtement pour vous et vous êtes un vêtement pour elles. Dieu sait comme vous vous trahissiez vous-mêmes, vraiment! Aussi a-t-Il reçu votre repentir, et Il vous a donné rémission. Fréquentez-les donc, maintenant, et cherchez ce que Dieu a prescrit en votre faveur: mangez et buvez jusqu'à ce que se distingue, pour vous, du fait de l'aube, le fil blanc du fil noir. Puis, accomplissez le jeûne jusqu'à la nuit. Mais ne les fréquentez pas pendant que vous êtes en retraite rituelle dans les mosquées. Voilà les bornes de Dieu: n'en approchez donc pas! ainsi Dieu explique-t-Il aux gens Ses signes. Peut-être seraient-ils pieux!}}

Ce verset dit aux musulmans que, pendant le ramadan, ils ne mangeront, ne boiront, ni n'auront de [[Reproduction|relations sexuelles]] durant les heures où brille le soleil. Cela peut causer un [[The Ramadan Pole Paradox|immense problème]] pour ceux vivant près des Pôles nord ou sud.

Plus l'on s'approche des pôles, plus les jours ou les nuits s'allongent. Ils peuvent même durer plusieurs mois chacun, rendant ce verset, le quatrième [[Five Pillars of Islam|Pilier de l'islam]], impossible à pratiquer sans mourir de faim. Encore une fois, ce problème n'existerait pas sur une terre plate.

== Apologies générales ==
{{Quote|{{Quran|31|29}}| الم تر ان الله يولج الليل في النهار ويولج النهار في الليل وسخر الشمس والقمر كل يجري الى اجل مسمى وان الله بما تعملون خبير

Al[a]m t[a]ra ann[a] Allah[a] yuliju al-leyla fi an-n[a]hari wayuliju an-n[a]hara fi al-leyli wa s[a]khkh[a]r[a] ach-chamsa wa al-qamara kullun yajri ila ajalin musamman wa anna Allaha bima taﻋmaloona kh[a]beerun

N'as-tu pas vu que Dieu fait que la nuit pénètre dans le jour, et que le jour pénètre dans la nuit? et qu'Il a assujetti le soleil et la lune à couler chacun jusqu'à un terme dénommé? et que Dieu est bien informé vraiment de ce que vous faites?}}
{{Quote|{{Quran|39|5}}| خلق السماوات والارض بالحق يكور الليل على النهار ويكور النهار على الليل وسخر الشمس والقمر كل يجري لاجل مسمى الا هو العزيز الغفار

Khalaqa as-samawati wa al-ardha bialhaqqi yukawiru al-leyla ﻋala an-nahari wa yukawiru an-nahara ﻋala al-leyli wa s[a]khkh[a]r[a] ach-chamsa wa alqamara kullun yajri li-ajalin musamman ala huwa alﻋazizu al-ghaffaru

Avec vérité Il a créé les cieux et la terre. Il enroule la nuit au jour, et enroule le jour à la nuit, tandis qu'Il a assujetti le soleil et la lune à couler chacun vers un terme dénommé. N'est-ce pas Lui le puissant, le grand pardonneur?}}
{{Quote|{{Quran|22|61}}| ذلك بان الله يولج الليل في النهار ويولج النهار في الليل وان الله سميع بصير

Dhalika bi-ann[a] Allah[a] yuliju al-leyla fi an-n[a]hari wa-yuliju an-n[a]hara fi al-leyli wa ann[a] Allaha samiﻋain basirun
C'est qu'en Vérité Dieu fait que la nuit pénètre dans le jour, et que le jour pénètre dans la nuit. Dieu, cependant, entend, Il observe, vraiment!}}

Les musulmans clament parfois que "Enrouler signifie ici que la nuit se transforme graduellement en jour et vice-versa. Ce phénomène ne peut avoir lieu que si la terre est sphérique. Si la terre était plate, il y aurait un changement soudain de la nuit au jour et du jour à la nuit."

Cet argument est faux. Le mouvement graduel du jour à la nuit et vice-versa arriverait quand même dans le modèle d'une terre plate. La seule différence serait que la terre plate serait éclairée partout, il n'y aurait pas de zones que le soleil n'éclairerait pas, seulement la même nuit et le même jour pour tous.

Vous pouvez faire l'expérience vous-mêmes. Tout ce dont vous avez besoin est une chambre sombre, une table et une lampe torche. Laissez la lumière de la lampe torche naître doucement au dessus d'un côté de la table, comme un lever de soleil, (puis continuez) et vous verrez ensuite un passage progressif de la nuit au jour. Les versets 31:29, 39:5 et 22:61 ne nous disent rien sur la forme de la terre. Ce sont de simples observations que n'importe qui pourrait faire.

De plus ces versets se réfèrent de manière erronée à la lumière et à l'obscurité comme étant deux choses différents. Elles sont en fait la même chose. La nuit ne "chevauche" pas le jour, ne s'y "enroule" pas autour parce qu'il n'y a que de la lumière, et l'obscurité n'est que l'absence de lumière.

== Conclusion ==

Comme cité au début de cet article, le Cheik 'Abdul-'Aziz Ibn Baaz, l'autorité religieuse suprême de l'Arabie Saoudite, croit que la terre est plate, comme le chercheur en astronomie musulman Fadhel Al-Sa'd, qui a déclaré dans un débat télévisé sur Iraqi Al-Fayhaa TV (le 31 octobre 2007) que la terre est plate comme cela est prouvé par les versets coraniques et que le soleil est bien plus petit que la terre et tourne autour d'elle.<ref>[http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1684.htm Iraqi Researcher Defies Scientific Axioms: The Earth Is Flat and Much Larger than the Sun (Which Is Also Flat)] - MEMRI TV, Video No. 1684</ref> En tant que musulmans dévots, ils ont de bonnes raisons de conclure que la terre est plate; les versets coraniques 15:19, 20:53, 43:10, 50:7, 51:48, 71:19, 78:6, 79:30, 88:20 et 91:6 font clairement état de cela et il n'y a pas un seul verset dans le Coran qui pourrait faire penser à une terre sphérique. Alors que beaucoup on tenté d'expliquer cette 'bizarrerie' à d'autres musulmans et aux Occidentaux, ils se basent sur l'ignorance présumée de la langue arabe de leur audience. Bref, il n'y a aucune échappatoire au fait que, selon le Coran, la terre est plate comme une crêpe.

{{Core Science}}

== Voir aussi ==

* [[Les articles en francais - Articles in French|Les articles en français (Articles in French)]]

'''En anglais'''

* [[Islamic Prophecies]]
* [[Cosmology]] ''- A hub page that leads to other articles related to Cosmology''

{{Translation-links-francais|[[Flat Earth and the Qur'an|anglaise]]}}

==Liens externes (en anglais)==

*[http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/earth_egg.html Is the Earth Egg-Shaped?] ''- [[Answering Islam]]''
*[http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fislammonitor.org%2Findex.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D1382%26Itemid%3D63&date=2011-03-26 The Earth is Flat] - ''Islam Monitor''
*[{{Reference archive|1=http://www.islam-watch.org/SujitDas/MuslimGenius.htm|2=2011-03-26}} A Tribute to a Muslim Genius (Sheik Abdul-Aziz Ibn Baaz)] ''- [[Islam Watch]]''

== Références ==
{{reflist}}

[[Category:Français (French)]]
[[Category:Islam et Science]]
[[Category:Coran]]