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WikiIslam:Sandbox/La cosmologie du Coran

2014-10-09T22:51:10Z

Einstein reason: /* Introduction */

[[File:Ancient-Cosmology.jpg|right|thumb]]
Cet article analyse la nature et la structure de l'univers tel qu'il est décrit par le coran et la sunna.
==Introduction==

Cet article est conçu pour découvrir et expliquer la cosmologie présenté dans le Coran et la Sunna. Plus précisément, il va explorer la vision du Coran de la nature et de la structure de l'univers physique. Les intérpretations personelle des apologistes musulmans concernant le coran et le big bang, l'expansion de l'univers dans le coran sont analysés dans d'autres articles.

Sans surprise, La "Cosmologie coranique" n'a pas été plus avancée que celle des tribus de la péninsules arabique du 7ème siècle, et n'est même pas aussi sophistiquée et précise dans sa compréhension que celle des Grecs ou les Romains qui les avaient précédés par des siècles et qui avaient déja fait beaucoup d'avancées en cosmologie notemment concernant la figure géométrique de la terre. (Voir {{external link| url = http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_de_la_Terre_dans_l%27Antiquit%C3%A9| title = | publisher = Wikipedia | author = | date = | archiveurl = | deadurl = no}} )
Maintenant, il est reconnu par les apologistes que (comme dans presque tous les autre texte antique), une partie de ce qui est dit dans le Coran devait être pris à la lettre, tandis que quelque soit allégorique ou symbolique. Mais cette reconnaissance ne donne pas le droit au lecteur de rejeter purement et simplement certaines descriptions qui sont évidemment dans l'erreur, sans raison valable.

==Analysis==

===The Heavens and the Earth===

Any accounting of the cosmology of the Qur'an must begin with the fact that the Islamic universe is extremely small and simple. It consists entirely of two (and only two) components; the [[heaven]]s and the earth.

There is no recognition of any of the other features of the universe that modern peoples take for granted. There is no concept of solar systems, of galaxies, or of “space.” There is no hint that the earth is a planet like the other planets visible from it, or that stars are other suns, just very far away. Qur'anic cosmology is primarily limited to that which is visible to the naked eye, and where the authors attempt describe what is not actually visible, they are invariably wrong.

The fundamental status of the “heavens and the earth” as the two key components of [[creation]] is emphasized repeatedly in the Qur'an, and it is the “separation” of the two that stands as the initial creative act of [[Allah]].

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|30}}|Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?}}

The exclusivity of these two venues is also repeatedly stressed. There is (for example) no third place within which things might exist or conversations might take place. Whenever the authors of the Qur'an want to make a point concerning Allah’s omniscience, for example, the phrase “in heaven or on earth” is invariably used as shorthand for the entire universe.

{{Quote|{{Quran|14|38}}|O our Lord! truly Thou dost know what we conceal and what we reveal: for nothing whatever is hidden from Allah, whether on earth or in heaven.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|4}}|Say: "My Lord knoweth (every) word (spoken) in the heavens and on earth: He is the One that heareth and knoweth (all things).}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|22|70}}|Knowest thou not that Allah knows all that is in heaven and on earth? Indeed it is all in a Record, and that is easy for Allah.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|31|26}}|To Allah belong all things in heaven and earth: verily Allah is He (that is) free of all wants, worthy of all praise.}}

The “heavens and the earth” are also described as a sort of “container” within which the entire Universe (that man experiences) operates. There is only heaven, earth, and the things between them.

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|16}}|Not for (idle) sport did We create the heavens and the earth and all that is between!}}

Not surprisingly, the nature of this space “between the heavens and the earth” is described according to the straightforward (if false) perception of a human standing on the ground. Looking in all directions, the Earth appears to be basically flat, and the circular horizon gives the impression of standing at the center of a flat disc. Looking up, the sky (heaven) appears as a solid blue dome reaching its greatest height directly overhead, and anchored at or beyond the horizon. This is essentially (as we will discuss in detail) what we find in the Qur'an.

Additionally, the Qur'an is clear that when Allah created the heavens and the earth, the earth came first.

{{Quote|{{cite quran|41|9|end=11|style=ref}}|Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters): Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days, and ascribe ye unto Him rivals? He (and none else) is the Lord of the Worlds. He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days, alike for (all) who ask; Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient.}}

And

{{Quote|{{Quran|2|29}}|He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things.}}

So there we have the basic framework. The earth is a flat disc, and the heavens are a solid dome (actually seven solid domes) overhead. For a look at more of the details, let us first consider the heavens.

===The Heavens and their Denizens===

As seen from the earth, the dome of the innermost heaven extends overhead, although in actuality they are more correctly described as seven concentric domes with the disk of the earth at their base.

{{Quote|{{Quran|2|29}}|It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|41|12}}|So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command.}}

These seven heavens are solid objects; this can be shown in several ways. For starters, they stand as barriers that both protect (as does a roof) and contain.

The protective nature of this roof is shown in verses such as:

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|32}}|And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!}}

And the fact that they are solid is shown by references to pieces of the heavens falling and potentially injuring residents of the earth.

{{Quote|{{Quran|34|9}}|See they not what is before them and behind them, of the sky and the earth? If We wished, We could cause the earth to swallow them up, or cause a piece of the sky to fall upon them. Verily in this is a Sign for every devotee that turns to Allah (in repentance).}}

In fact, they are so substantial that it is even conceivable to climb up onto them using a ladder.

{{Quote|{{Quran|6|35}}|If their spurning is hard on thy mind, yet if thou wert able to seek a tunnel in the ground or a ladder to the skies and bring them a sign,- (what good?).}}

And finally, the heavens are apparently heavy enough to require physical supports of some sort. Contrary to some claims, the Qur'an acknowledges that such supports are required, but also explains that they are invisible.

{{Quote|{{Quran|13|2}}|Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.}}

The authors here take it as obvious that the heavens require support of some kind. But their emphasis is on their invisibility, not their actual absence.

To further expound on the nature of the seven heavens, we need additional help from the [[hadith]]. Here we learn the distances between each heaven, as well as what is on the other side of the furthermost.

{{Quote|{{Abu Dawud|2|475}}|Narrated Al-Abbas ibn AbdulMuttalib: I was sitting in al-Batha with a company among whom the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) was sitting, when a cloud passed above them. The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) looked at it and said: What do you call this?

They said: Sahab.

He said: And muzn? They said: And muzn. He said: And anan? They said: And anan. AbuDawud said: I am not quite confident about the word anan. He asked: Do you know the distance between Heaven and Earth? They replied: We do not know. He then said: The distance between them is seventy-one, seventy-two, or seventy-three years. The heaven which is above it is at a similar distance (going on till he counted seven heavens). Above the seventh heaven there is a sea, the distance between whose surface and bottom is like that between one heaven and the next. Above that there are eight mountain goats the distance between whose hoofs and haunches is like the distance between one heaven and the next. Then Allah, the Blessed and the Exalted, is above that.}}

Ignoring the giant mountain goats which are never mentioned in the Qur'an itself, the outermost heaven lies beneath a sea that is as deep as the distances between adjacent heavens. That Allah’s “throne” is above such waters is mentioned in the Qur'an as well as the hadith.

{{Quote|{{Quran|11|7}}|He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death", the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!"}}

There are however no mentions of galaxies, quasars, galaxy clusters or empty space. Simply water, a throne, and Allah himself.

Additional details concerning the individual heavens are found in the accounts of Muhammad’s “night journey.” Rather than quoting at length, readers are referred to {{Bukhari|9|93|68}} for the long version. But here are the key points.

Each of the seven heavens is populated by multiple angels and a few other folks as well. These heavens are entered through doors in the solid domes, each with an angelic guard and each populated by a resident prophet. For example, immediately above the dome of the first heaven is where Muhammad met Adam, and discovered (in the absence of true geographic knowledge) the sources of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. The second heaven is the home of the Prophet Idris. Aaron is in the fourth heaven, Abraham the sixth, and Moses the seventh.

===The Celestial Objects===
Inside the nearest heaven (i.e. less than 73 years away) are the stars and (apparently) also the sun and [[moon]]. We can be certain that the stars are inside this closest heaven, as the Qur'an is quite explicit on this point.

{{Quote|{{Quran|37|6}}|We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|41|12}}|So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.}}

The idea that the stars might actually be objects on the scale of the sun, but much farther away was clearly missed by the authors of the Qur'an.

===The Sun and the Moon===

The sun and moon are a bit more ambiguous, as all we know is that they are in the “midst” of the heavens, and not explicitly inside the lowest of them.

{{Quote|{{Quran|71|16}}|And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?}}

These two lights (along with the stars and planets) follow prescribed paths along the curved walls of the solid heavenly domes.

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|33}}|It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.}}
{{Quote|{{Quran|36|40}}|It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).}}

And at the end of their daily paths across the sky, the sun (and presumably also the moon and stars) pass through the earth’s flat disk near the far Western edge using openings filled with water.

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|86}}|Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."}}

Once out of view of the humans that populate the top of the earthly disc, their motion stops, and they rest for the night in particular resting places.

{{Quote|{{Quran|36|38}}|And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.}}

At some point during the night, however (and here again we call to the hadith for details) the sun must negotiate its return the next day with a direct appeal for Allah’s permission.

{{Quote|{{Bukhari|4|54|421}}|Narrated Abu Dhar:

The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west.}}

And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah:

{{Quote|{{Quran|36|38}}|And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.}}

With permission to rise received, the sun passes back through the earthly disk near its Eastern edge to commence the next day. While no “muddy pools” are specifically mentioned for the sunrise, the description of people living nearby the exit point mirrors the description of the [[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring|place where the sun set]].

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|90}}|Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.}}

===Eclipses of the Sun or Moon===

The Qur'an demonstrates no understanding whatsoever of eclipses. Perhaps this is understandable. The hadith claim that Muhammad only experienced one solar eclipse during his lifetime, an experience which frightened him into a spectacular act of piety. But the Qur'an only makes a single reference to eclipses, and that is a lunar eclipse that will take place at the end of the world.

In fact, the Qur'an actually makes a statement that would conceivably make eclipses impossible.

{{Quote|{{Quran|36|40}}|It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).}}

For a solar eclipse to occur however, the sun and the moon actually must (from the perspective of the earth) "catch up" to each other in their "orbits." But since the moon itself is not visible at that time, the authors of the Qur'an never noticed this.

But then, when discussing the end of time the Qur'an assumes that a lunar eclipse (which can only occur when the sun and moon are on opposite sides of the earth) can occur at the same time the sun and moon finally do “catch up” to each other.

{{Quote|{{cite quran|75|6|end=9|style=ref}}|He asketh: “When will be this Day of Resurrection?” But when sight is confounded And the moon is eclipsed And sun and moon are united,}}

The “uniting” of the sun and the moon not only demonstrate a singular instance when they do “catch up” with each other, but also indicate that the authors of the Qur'an believed they were comparable in size. This is of course only an illusion of comparative distance.

===Night and Day===

The fact that the authors of the Qur'an did not realize that the sun and moon actually cause eclipses (as opposed to simply experiencing them) is similar to their failure to realize that the sun actually causes day and night. In the Qur'an, night is not simply the absence of day. Night and day are each specific, tangible creations of Allah, and they engage in a form of balanced conflict independent of the celestial bodies.

{{Quote|{{Quran|3|27}}|Thou causest the night to gain on the day, and thou causest the day to gain on the night; Thou bringest the Living out of the dead, and Thou bringest the dead out of the Living; and Thou givest sustenance to whom Thou pleasest, without measure.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|3|190}}|Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed Signs for men of understanding.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|13|3}}|He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider!}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|22|61}}|That is because Allah merges night into day, and He merges day into night, and verily it is Allah Who hears and sees (all things).}}

Day and night are clearly entities independent from the sun, moon or any other celestial objects. Even when considered in the same verse, night and day are independent of the sun, with no recognition that the sun causes either of them.

{{Quote|{{Quran|7|54}}|Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|14|33}}|And He hath made subject to you the sun and the moon, both diligently pursuing their courses; and the night and the day hath he (also) made subject to you.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|33}}|It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|31|29}}|’Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and he merges Day into Night; that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his Law), each running its course for a term appointed; and that Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do?}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|39|5}}|He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?}}

So, if the sun does not cause day and night, what is its purpose other than merely being the brighter of the two major celestial lamps?

Well, it turns out that the purpose of these objects is primarily time and calendar keeping.

{{Quote|{{Quran|6|96}}|He it is that cleaveth the day-break (from the dark): He makes the night for rest and tranquillity, and the sun and moon for the reckoning (of time): Such is the judgment and ordering of (Him), the Exalted in Power, the Omniscient.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|10|5}}|It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand.}}

===The Stars, Planets and Meteors===

It is not obvious from the [[Mistranslated Verses|translations]] of the Qur'an that the authors of the Qur'an actually distinguished between stars and planets, as the same word is often translated to mean either. But as ancient peoples generally knew that planets were different from ordinary stars (they moved) it is a safe assumption that the earliest Muslims were equally aware.

But the mistaken (if understandable) belief that stars are very small nearby objects is not merely reflected in the placement of them inside the nearest dome. As with most other ancient people, the authors of the Qur'an believed that meteors literally were “falling stars.” Yet with the unmistakable flavor of Arab martial creativity, they do not fall without purpose. [[Mistranslations of Quran 67-5|Verse 67:5]] tells us they are weapons against devils and jinn.

{{Quote|{{Quran|67|5}}|And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.}}

This appears to be part of the protective role of the heavens.

{{Quote|{{Quran|72|8}}|And (the Jinn who had listened to the Quran said): We had sought the heaven but had found it filled with strong warders and meteors.}}

===The Earth and its Denizens===

The authors of the Qur'an felt a lesser need to describe the nature of the earth than the heavens, since much of the earth’s nature was obvious to the people that lived upon it. There was simply much less to explain. But the descriptions that do exist provide us with unassailable conclusions.

First and foremost, the earth is flat. Repeatedly, the authors of the Qur'an use the same word to describe the “spreading out” of the earth that Arabs used to discuss the spreading out of a “carpet,” a usage that translators often make use of.

{{Quote|{{Quran|15|19}}|And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|20|53}}|"He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|43|10}}|(Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way);}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|50|7}}|And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)-}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|51|48}}|And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out!}}

In fact, at one point the Qur'an even emphasizes how much flatter the earth would be were it not for the mountains that disrupt the view.

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|47}}|One Day We shall remove the mountains, and thou wilt see the earth as a level stretch, and We shall gather them, all together, nor shall We leave out any one of them.}}

And in the same way one would stake down a tent or a carpet to keep it from shifting or blowing away, the mountains are described as serving [[The Quran and Mountains|this same purpose]].

{{Quote|{{Quran|16|15}}|And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves;}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|78|7}}|And the mountains as pegs?}}

Perhaps the one unclear facet of Islamic cosmology is the fact that the Qur'an mentions without explanation that there are (like the heavens), [[Science and the Seven Earths|seven earths]]:

{{Quote|{{Quran|65|12}}|Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.}}

The seven concentric domes of the heavens are fairly straightforward. The seven different earths are a bit more difficult to picture. One hint is given by the Qur'ans mention that in the same way “things” can “come down from” or “mount up to” the heavens, there are also things that can “come forth out of” or “enter within” the earth.

{{Quote|{{Quran|57|4}}|He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do.}}

This leads to the conclusion that the seven earths are stacked one atop the other, similar to a stack of coins. This view is confirmed in the hadith:

{{Quote|1=[{{Reference archive|1=http://www.oocities.org/tirmidhihadith/page8.html|2=2014-01-07}} Al Tirmidhi 5735]|2=Narrated AbuHurayrah:

While Allah's Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions were sitting clouds came over them and Allah's Prophet (peace be upon him) asked [...] "Do you know what is below you?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "It is the earth." He then asked, "Do you know what is under that?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "Under it there is another Earth with a journey of five hundred years between them," and so on till he had counted seven earths with a journey of five hundred years between each pair. He then said, "By Him in Whose hand Muhammad's soul is, if you were to drop a rope to the lowest earth it would not pass out of Allah's knowledge."...}}

===Where are Paradise and Hell?===

Islamic cosmology takes a perfectly prosaic position in terms of Paradise and [[Hell]], and places them firmly within the cosmos that consists of the heavens and the earth. The description of Muhammad’s “night journey” shows each of the seven heavens already populated with the departed prophets in Paradise. This is consistent with the Qur'ans description of the size of Paradise.

{{Quote|{{Quran|3|133}}|Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous,-}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|57|21}}|Be ye foremost (in seeking) Forgiveness from your Lord, and a Garden (of Bliss), the width whereof is as the width of heaven and earth, prepared for those who believe in Allah and His messengers: that is the Grace of Allah, which He bestows on whom he pleases: and Allah is the Lord of Grace abounding.}}

If the heavens (to include the seventh and largest) are already populated with denizens of Paradise, the width of Paradise would be precisely that of heaven and earth.

And since Paradise is on the other side of the first heaven, it follows that Hell is below the surface of the first earth, filling the spaces beneath and between the seven earths. This is consistent with the descriptions of hell as being a completely enclosed place.

{{Quote|{{Quran|7|41}}|For them there is Hell, as a couch (below) and folds and folds of covering above: such is Our requital of those who do wrong.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|9|49}}|Among them is (many) a man who says: "Grant me exemption and draw me not into trial." Have they not fallen into trial already? and indeed Hell surrounds the Unbelievers (on all sides).}}

Further, the direction of hell, when it is mentioned, is invariably “down.”''

{{Quote|{{Quran|52|13}}|That Day shall they be thrust down to the Fire of Hell, irresistibly.}}

Elsewhere, it is described as an underground dungeon.

{{Quote|{{Quran|17|8}}|It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, but if ye repeat (the crime) We shall repeat (the punishment), and We have appointed hell a dungeon for the disbelievers.}}

And in yet another reference, an observer is directed to “look down” in order to witness a denizen of hell.

{{Quote|{{cite quran|37|54|end=55|style=ref}}|(A voice) said: "Would ye like to look down?"
He looked down and saw him in the midst of the Fire.}}

And so, we have the Islamic Universe in completion.

==Conclusion==

The Qur'an is not a book of [[Islam and Science|science]]. As such, it makes no extended effort to describe the cosmos in the way a textbook might. Yet dealing as it does with universal questions of creation, purpose and fate it cannot avoid revealing its cosmological framework as it describes the workings of Allah.

In so doing, while it never comes out and says “this is the form of the universe,” a consistent and comprehensive cosmology still reveals itself. And to no surprise, this proves to be the mythical cosmos of 7th century Arabia rather than an accurate description of the real universe.

In the Qur'an, the entire universe is very small and contains simply the earth and its surrounding heavens. There are no galaxies, other solar systems, or such a thing as “outer space.”

The earth is the top-most of seven, flat discs, surrounded by the seven solid concentric domes of the heavens. The celestial objects that do exist (sun, moon, stars and planets) are quite small, very close, and they follow semi-circular paths within the innermost of the seven heavenly domes. When they are not in the sky above the earth, they are resting somewhere underneath it, except while petitioning Allah’s permission to return the following day (or night). Paradise exists between the seven heavens, and hell exists between the seven earths.

All of this is submerged in a cosmic sea, above which is the throne of Allah.

{{Core Science}}

==See Also==

{{Hub4|Cosmology|Cosmology}}
* [[Qur'an Explains the Universe]] - ''Muslim article''

{{Translation-links-english|[[Olamning Qurondagi manzarasi|Uzbek]]}}

[[Category:Qur'an]]
[[Category:Islam and Science]]
[[Category:Miracles]]
[[Category:THHuxley]]
[[ru:Коранический_взгляд_на_Вселенную]]
{{page_title|Cosmologie du Coran}}

WikiIslam:Sandbox/La cosmologie du Coran

2014-10-09T22:47:33Z

Einstein reason: /* Introduction */

[[File:Ancient-Cosmology.jpg|right|thumb]]
Cet article analyse la nature et la structure de l'univers tel qu'il est décrit par le coran et la sunna.
==Introduction==

Cet article est conçu pour découvrir et expliquer la cosmologie présenté dans le Coran et la Sunna. Plus précisément, il va explorer la vision du Coran de la nature et de la structure de l'univers physique. Les intérpretations personelle des apologistes musulmans concernant le coran et le big bang, l'expansion de l'univers dans le coran sont analysés dans d'autres articles.

To no surprise, “Islamic Cosmology” was not advanced beyond that of any of its ancient neighbors, and in fact is far less sophisticated and accurate in its understanding than the Greeks or Romans that had preceded them by centuries. While other civilizations had (for example) long before realized that the earth was a globe, the Qur'an betrays no understanding that the earth is [[Flat Earth and the Quran|anything but flat]].

Sans surprise, La "Cosmologie coranique" n'a pas été plus avancée que celle des tribus de la péninsules arabique du 7ème siècle, et n'est même pas aussi sophistiquée et précise dans sa compréhension que celle des Grecs ou les Romains qui les avaient précédés par des siècles et qui avaient déja fait beaucoup d'avancées en cosmologie notemment concernant la figure géométrique de la terre. (Voir http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_de_la_Terre_dans_l%27Antiquit%C3%A9)

Maintenant, il est reconnu par les apologistes que (comme dans presque tous les autre texte antique), une partie de ce qui est dit dans le Coran devait être pris à la lettre, tandis que quelque soit allégorique ou symbolique. Mais cette reconnaissance ne donne pas le droit au lecteur de rejeter purement et simplement certaines descriptions qui sont évidemment dans l'erreur, sans raison valable.

==Analysis==

===The Heavens and the Earth===

Any accounting of the cosmology of the Qur'an must begin with the fact that the Islamic universe is extremely small and simple. It consists entirely of two (and only two) components; the [[heaven]]s and the earth.

There is no recognition of any of the other features of the universe that modern peoples take for granted. There is no concept of solar systems, of galaxies, or of “space.” There is no hint that the earth is a planet like the other planets visible from it, or that stars are other suns, just very far away. Qur'anic cosmology is primarily limited to that which is visible to the naked eye, and where the authors attempt describe what is not actually visible, they are invariably wrong.

The fundamental status of the “heavens and the earth” as the two key components of [[creation]] is emphasized repeatedly in the Qur'an, and it is the “separation” of the two that stands as the initial creative act of [[Allah]].

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|30}}|Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?}}

The exclusivity of these two venues is also repeatedly stressed. There is (for example) no third place within which things might exist or conversations might take place. Whenever the authors of the Qur'an want to make a point concerning Allah’s omniscience, for example, the phrase “in heaven or on earth” is invariably used as shorthand for the entire universe.

{{Quote|{{Quran|14|38}}|O our Lord! truly Thou dost know what we conceal and what we reveal: for nothing whatever is hidden from Allah, whether on earth or in heaven.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|4}}|Say: "My Lord knoweth (every) word (spoken) in the heavens and on earth: He is the One that heareth and knoweth (all things).}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|22|70}}|Knowest thou not that Allah knows all that is in heaven and on earth? Indeed it is all in a Record, and that is easy for Allah.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|31|26}}|To Allah belong all things in heaven and earth: verily Allah is He (that is) free of all wants, worthy of all praise.}}

The “heavens and the earth” are also described as a sort of “container” within which the entire Universe (that man experiences) operates. There is only heaven, earth, and the things between them.

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|16}}|Not for (idle) sport did We create the heavens and the earth and all that is between!}}

Not surprisingly, the nature of this space “between the heavens and the earth” is described according to the straightforward (if false) perception of a human standing on the ground. Looking in all directions, the Earth appears to be basically flat, and the circular horizon gives the impression of standing at the center of a flat disc. Looking up, the sky (heaven) appears as a solid blue dome reaching its greatest height directly overhead, and anchored at or beyond the horizon. This is essentially (as we will discuss in detail) what we find in the Qur'an.

Additionally, the Qur'an is clear that when Allah created the heavens and the earth, the earth came first.

{{Quote|{{cite quran|41|9|end=11|style=ref}}|Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters): Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days, and ascribe ye unto Him rivals? He (and none else) is the Lord of the Worlds. He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days, alike for (all) who ask; Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient.}}

And

{{Quote|{{Quran|2|29}}|He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things.}}

So there we have the basic framework. The earth is a flat disc, and the heavens are a solid dome (actually seven solid domes) overhead. For a look at more of the details, let us first consider the heavens.

===The Heavens and their Denizens===

As seen from the earth, the dome of the innermost heaven extends overhead, although in actuality they are more correctly described as seven concentric domes with the disk of the earth at their base.

{{Quote|{{Quran|2|29}}|It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|41|12}}|So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command.}}

These seven heavens are solid objects; this can be shown in several ways. For starters, they stand as barriers that both protect (as does a roof) and contain.

The protective nature of this roof is shown in verses such as:

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|32}}|And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!}}

And the fact that they are solid is shown by references to pieces of the heavens falling and potentially injuring residents of the earth.

{{Quote|{{Quran|34|9}}|See they not what is before them and behind them, of the sky and the earth? If We wished, We could cause the earth to swallow them up, or cause a piece of the sky to fall upon them. Verily in this is a Sign for every devotee that turns to Allah (in repentance).}}

In fact, they are so substantial that it is even conceivable to climb up onto them using a ladder.

{{Quote|{{Quran|6|35}}|If their spurning is hard on thy mind, yet if thou wert able to seek a tunnel in the ground or a ladder to the skies and bring them a sign,- (what good?).}}

And finally, the heavens are apparently heavy enough to require physical supports of some sort. Contrary to some claims, the Qur'an acknowledges that such supports are required, but also explains that they are invisible.

{{Quote|{{Quran|13|2}}|Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.}}

The authors here take it as obvious that the heavens require support of some kind. But their emphasis is on their invisibility, not their actual absence.

To further expound on the nature of the seven heavens, we need additional help from the [[hadith]]. Here we learn the distances between each heaven, as well as what is on the other side of the furthermost.

{{Quote|{{Abu Dawud|2|475}}|Narrated Al-Abbas ibn AbdulMuttalib: I was sitting in al-Batha with a company among whom the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) was sitting, when a cloud passed above them. The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) looked at it and said: What do you call this?

They said: Sahab.

He said: And muzn? They said: And muzn. He said: And anan? They said: And anan. AbuDawud said: I am not quite confident about the word anan. He asked: Do you know the distance between Heaven and Earth? They replied: We do not know. He then said: The distance between them is seventy-one, seventy-two, or seventy-three years. The heaven which is above it is at a similar distance (going on till he counted seven heavens). Above the seventh heaven there is a sea, the distance between whose surface and bottom is like that between one heaven and the next. Above that there are eight mountain goats the distance between whose hoofs and haunches is like the distance between one heaven and the next. Then Allah, the Blessed and the Exalted, is above that.}}

Ignoring the giant mountain goats which are never mentioned in the Qur'an itself, the outermost heaven lies beneath a sea that is as deep as the distances between adjacent heavens. That Allah’s “throne” is above such waters is mentioned in the Qur'an as well as the hadith.

{{Quote|{{Quran|11|7}}|He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death", the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!"}}

There are however no mentions of galaxies, quasars, galaxy clusters or empty space. Simply water, a throne, and Allah himself.

Additional details concerning the individual heavens are found in the accounts of Muhammad’s “night journey.” Rather than quoting at length, readers are referred to {{Bukhari|9|93|68}} for the long version. But here are the key points.

Each of the seven heavens is populated by multiple angels and a few other folks as well. These heavens are entered through doors in the solid domes, each with an angelic guard and each populated by a resident prophet. For example, immediately above the dome of the first heaven is where Muhammad met Adam, and discovered (in the absence of true geographic knowledge) the sources of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. The second heaven is the home of the Prophet Idris. Aaron is in the fourth heaven, Abraham the sixth, and Moses the seventh.

===The Celestial Objects===
Inside the nearest heaven (i.e. less than 73 years away) are the stars and (apparently) also the sun and [[moon]]. We can be certain that the stars are inside this closest heaven, as the Qur'an is quite explicit on this point.

{{Quote|{{Quran|37|6}}|We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|41|12}}|So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.}}

The idea that the stars might actually be objects on the scale of the sun, but much farther away was clearly missed by the authors of the Qur'an.

===The Sun and the Moon===

The sun and moon are a bit more ambiguous, as all we know is that they are in the “midst” of the heavens, and not explicitly inside the lowest of them.

{{Quote|{{Quran|71|16}}|And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?}}

These two lights (along with the stars and planets) follow prescribed paths along the curved walls of the solid heavenly domes.

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|33}}|It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.}}
{{Quote|{{Quran|36|40}}|It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).}}

And at the end of their daily paths across the sky, the sun (and presumably also the moon and stars) pass through the earth’s flat disk near the far Western edge using openings filled with water.

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|86}}|Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."}}

Once out of view of the humans that populate the top of the earthly disc, their motion stops, and they rest for the night in particular resting places.

{{Quote|{{Quran|36|38}}|And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.}}

At some point during the night, however (and here again we call to the hadith for details) the sun must negotiate its return the next day with a direct appeal for Allah’s permission.

{{Quote|{{Bukhari|4|54|421}}|Narrated Abu Dhar:

The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west.}}

And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah:

{{Quote|{{Quran|36|38}}|And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.}}

With permission to rise received, the sun passes back through the earthly disk near its Eastern edge to commence the next day. While no “muddy pools” are specifically mentioned for the sunrise, the description of people living nearby the exit point mirrors the description of the [[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring|place where the sun set]].

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|90}}|Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.}}

===Eclipses of the Sun or Moon===

The Qur'an demonstrates no understanding whatsoever of eclipses. Perhaps this is understandable. The hadith claim that Muhammad only experienced one solar eclipse during his lifetime, an experience which frightened him into a spectacular act of piety. But the Qur'an only makes a single reference to eclipses, and that is a lunar eclipse that will take place at the end of the world.

In fact, the Qur'an actually makes a statement that would conceivably make eclipses impossible.

{{Quote|{{Quran|36|40}}|It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).}}

For a solar eclipse to occur however, the sun and the moon actually must (from the perspective of the earth) "catch up" to each other in their "orbits." But since the moon itself is not visible at that time, the authors of the Qur'an never noticed this.

But then, when discussing the end of time the Qur'an assumes that a lunar eclipse (which can only occur when the sun and moon are on opposite sides of the earth) can occur at the same time the sun and moon finally do “catch up” to each other.

{{Quote|{{cite quran|75|6|end=9|style=ref}}|He asketh: “When will be this Day of Resurrection?” But when sight is confounded And the moon is eclipsed And sun and moon are united,}}

The “uniting” of the sun and the moon not only demonstrate a singular instance when they do “catch up” with each other, but also indicate that the authors of the Qur'an believed they were comparable in size. This is of course only an illusion of comparative distance.

===Night and Day===

The fact that the authors of the Qur'an did not realize that the sun and moon actually cause eclipses (as opposed to simply experiencing them) is similar to their failure to realize that the sun actually causes day and night. In the Qur'an, night is not simply the absence of day. Night and day are each specific, tangible creations of Allah, and they engage in a form of balanced conflict independent of the celestial bodies.

{{Quote|{{Quran|3|27}}|Thou causest the night to gain on the day, and thou causest the day to gain on the night; Thou bringest the Living out of the dead, and Thou bringest the dead out of the Living; and Thou givest sustenance to whom Thou pleasest, without measure.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|3|190}}|Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed Signs for men of understanding.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|13|3}}|He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider!}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|22|61}}|That is because Allah merges night into day, and He merges day into night, and verily it is Allah Who hears and sees (all things).}}

Day and night are clearly entities independent from the sun, moon or any other celestial objects. Even when considered in the same verse, night and day are independent of the sun, with no recognition that the sun causes either of them.

{{Quote|{{Quran|7|54}}|Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|14|33}}|And He hath made subject to you the sun and the moon, both diligently pursuing their courses; and the night and the day hath he (also) made subject to you.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|33}}|It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|31|29}}|’Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and he merges Day into Night; that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his Law), each running its course for a term appointed; and that Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do?}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|39|5}}|He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?}}

So, if the sun does not cause day and night, what is its purpose other than merely being the brighter of the two major celestial lamps?

Well, it turns out that the purpose of these objects is primarily time and calendar keeping.

{{Quote|{{Quran|6|96}}|He it is that cleaveth the day-break (from the dark): He makes the night for rest and tranquillity, and the sun and moon for the reckoning (of time): Such is the judgment and ordering of (Him), the Exalted in Power, the Omniscient.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|10|5}}|It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand.}}

===The Stars, Planets and Meteors===

It is not obvious from the [[Mistranslated Verses|translations]] of the Qur'an that the authors of the Qur'an actually distinguished between stars and planets, as the same word is often translated to mean either. But as ancient peoples generally knew that planets were different from ordinary stars (they moved) it is a safe assumption that the earliest Muslims were equally aware.

But the mistaken (if understandable) belief that stars are very small nearby objects is not merely reflected in the placement of them inside the nearest dome. As with most other ancient people, the authors of the Qur'an believed that meteors literally were “falling stars.” Yet with the unmistakable flavor of Arab martial creativity, they do not fall without purpose. [[Mistranslations of Quran 67-5|Verse 67:5]] tells us they are weapons against devils and jinn.

{{Quote|{{Quran|67|5}}|And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.}}

This appears to be part of the protective role of the heavens.

{{Quote|{{Quran|72|8}}|And (the Jinn who had listened to the Quran said): We had sought the heaven but had found it filled with strong warders and meteors.}}

===The Earth and its Denizens===

The authors of the Qur'an felt a lesser need to describe the nature of the earth than the heavens, since much of the earth’s nature was obvious to the people that lived upon it. There was simply much less to explain. But the descriptions that do exist provide us with unassailable conclusions.

First and foremost, the earth is flat. Repeatedly, the authors of the Qur'an use the same word to describe the “spreading out” of the earth that Arabs used to discuss the spreading out of a “carpet,” a usage that translators often make use of.

{{Quote|{{Quran|15|19}}|And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|20|53}}|"He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|43|10}}|(Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way);}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|50|7}}|And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)-}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|51|48}}|And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out!}}

In fact, at one point the Qur'an even emphasizes how much flatter the earth would be were it not for the mountains that disrupt the view.

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|47}}|One Day We shall remove the mountains, and thou wilt see the earth as a level stretch, and We shall gather them, all together, nor shall We leave out any one of them.}}

And in the same way one would stake down a tent or a carpet to keep it from shifting or blowing away, the mountains are described as serving [[The Quran and Mountains|this same purpose]].

{{Quote|{{Quran|16|15}}|And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves;}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|78|7}}|And the mountains as pegs?}}

Perhaps the one unclear facet of Islamic cosmology is the fact that the Qur'an mentions without explanation that there are (like the heavens), [[Science and the Seven Earths|seven earths]]:

{{Quote|{{Quran|65|12}}|Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.}}

The seven concentric domes of the heavens are fairly straightforward. The seven different earths are a bit more difficult to picture. One hint is given by the Qur'ans mention that in the same way “things” can “come down from” or “mount up to” the heavens, there are also things that can “come forth out of” or “enter within” the earth.

{{Quote|{{Quran|57|4}}|He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do.}}

This leads to the conclusion that the seven earths are stacked one atop the other, similar to a stack of coins. This view is confirmed in the hadith:

{{Quote|1=[{{Reference archive|1=http://www.oocities.org/tirmidhihadith/page8.html|2=2014-01-07}} Al Tirmidhi 5735]|2=Narrated AbuHurayrah:

While Allah's Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions were sitting clouds came over them and Allah's Prophet (peace be upon him) asked [...] "Do you know what is below you?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "It is the earth." He then asked, "Do you know what is under that?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "Under it there is another Earth with a journey of five hundred years between them," and so on till he had counted seven earths with a journey of five hundred years between each pair. He then said, "By Him in Whose hand Muhammad's soul is, if you were to drop a rope to the lowest earth it would not pass out of Allah's knowledge."...}}

===Where are Paradise and Hell?===

Islamic cosmology takes a perfectly prosaic position in terms of Paradise and [[Hell]], and places them firmly within the cosmos that consists of the heavens and the earth. The description of Muhammad’s “night journey” shows each of the seven heavens already populated with the departed prophets in Paradise. This is consistent with the Qur'ans description of the size of Paradise.

{{Quote|{{Quran|3|133}}|Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous,-}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|57|21}}|Be ye foremost (in seeking) Forgiveness from your Lord, and a Garden (of Bliss), the width whereof is as the width of heaven and earth, prepared for those who believe in Allah and His messengers: that is the Grace of Allah, which He bestows on whom he pleases: and Allah is the Lord of Grace abounding.}}

If the heavens (to include the seventh and largest) are already populated with denizens of Paradise, the width of Paradise would be precisely that of heaven and earth.

And since Paradise is on the other side of the first heaven, it follows that Hell is below the surface of the first earth, filling the spaces beneath and between the seven earths. This is consistent with the descriptions of hell as being a completely enclosed place.

{{Quote|{{Quran|7|41}}|For them there is Hell, as a couch (below) and folds and folds of covering above: such is Our requital of those who do wrong.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|9|49}}|Among them is (many) a man who says: "Grant me exemption and draw me not into trial." Have they not fallen into trial already? and indeed Hell surrounds the Unbelievers (on all sides).}}

Further, the direction of hell, when it is mentioned, is invariably “down.”''

{{Quote|{{Quran|52|13}}|That Day shall they be thrust down to the Fire of Hell, irresistibly.}}

Elsewhere, it is described as an underground dungeon.

{{Quote|{{Quran|17|8}}|It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, but if ye repeat (the crime) We shall repeat (the punishment), and We have appointed hell a dungeon for the disbelievers.}}

And in yet another reference, an observer is directed to “look down” in order to witness a denizen of hell.

{{Quote|{{cite quran|37|54|end=55|style=ref}}|(A voice) said: "Would ye like to look down?"
He looked down and saw him in the midst of the Fire.}}

And so, we have the Islamic Universe in completion.

==Conclusion==

The Qur'an is not a book of [[Islam and Science|science]]. As such, it makes no extended effort to describe the cosmos in the way a textbook might. Yet dealing as it does with universal questions of creation, purpose and fate it cannot avoid revealing its cosmological framework as it describes the workings of Allah.

In so doing, while it never comes out and says “this is the form of the universe,” a consistent and comprehensive cosmology still reveals itself. And to no surprise, this proves to be the mythical cosmos of 7th century Arabia rather than an accurate description of the real universe.

In the Qur'an, the entire universe is very small and contains simply the earth and its surrounding heavens. There are no galaxies, other solar systems, or such a thing as “outer space.”

The earth is the top-most of seven, flat discs, surrounded by the seven solid concentric domes of the heavens. The celestial objects that do exist (sun, moon, stars and planets) are quite small, very close, and they follow semi-circular paths within the innermost of the seven heavenly domes. When they are not in the sky above the earth, they are resting somewhere underneath it, except while petitioning Allah’s permission to return the following day (or night). Paradise exists between the seven heavens, and hell exists between the seven earths.

All of this is submerged in a cosmic sea, above which is the throne of Allah.

{{Core Science}}

==See Also==

{{Hub4|Cosmology|Cosmology}}
* [[Qur'an Explains the Universe]] - ''Muslim article''

{{Translation-links-english|[[Olamning Qurondagi manzarasi|Uzbek]]}}

[[Category:Qur'an]]
[[Category:Islam and Science]]
[[Category:Miracles]]
[[Category:THHuxley]]
[[ru:Коранический_взгляд_на_Вселенную]]
{{page_title|Cosmologie du Coran}}

WikiIslam:Sandbox/La cosmologie du Coran

2014-10-09T17:01:43Z

Einstein reason:

[[File:Ancient-Cosmology.jpg|right|thumb]]
Cet article analyse la nature et la structure de l'univers tel qu'il est décrit par le coran et la sunna.
==Introduction==

Cet article est conçu pour découvrir et expliquer la cosmologie présenté dans le Coran et la Sunna. Plus précisément, il va explorer la vision du Coran de la nature et de la structure de l'univers physique. Les intérpretations personelle des apologistes musulmans concernant le coran et le big bang, l'expansion de l'univers dans le coran sont analysés dans d'autres articles.

To no surprise, “Islamic Cosmology” was not advanced beyond that of any of its ancient neighbors, and in fact is far less sophisticated and accurate in its understanding than the Greeks or Romans that had preceded them by centuries. While other civilizations had (for example) long before realized that the earth was a globe, the Qur'an betrays no understanding that the earth is [[Flat Earth and the Quran|anything but flat]].

Sans surprise, La "Cosmologie coranique" n'a pas été plus avancée que celle de tribus de la péninsules arabique du 7ème siècle, et qui n'est même pas aussi sophistiquée et précise dans sa compréhension que les Grecs ou les Romains qui les avaient précédés par des siècles et qui avaient déja fait beaucoup d'avancées notemment en cosmologie notemment concernant la figure de la terre (Voir http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Figure_de_la_Terre_dans_l%27Antiquit%C3%A9)

Maintenant, il est reconnu par les apologistes que (comme dans presque tous les autre texte antique), une partie de ce qui est dit dans le Coran devait être pris à la lettre, tandis que quelque soit allégorique ou symbolique. Mais cette reconnaissance ne donne pas la licence de lecteur à rejeter purement et simplement certaines descriptions qui sont évidemment dans l'erreur, sans raison valable. En fait, la cosmologie suggéré par le Coran et la Sunna est remarquablement uniforme, quel que soit le but précis de l'histoire particulière de lecture.
C'est parce que, à aucun moment était le but du Coran ou de la Sunna pour décrire la structure de l'univers. Dans presque tous les cas, ces descriptions n'existent que comme des effets secondaires des autres enseignements religieux ou éthiques qui étaient les véritables objectifs des textes que nous considérons. Si un détail de la cosmologie est contenue dans une allégorie, mais lui-même n'a pas de but allégorique, alors il doit être accepté que la compréhension réelle de l'auteur. Ainsi, alors que nous avons seulement une poignée de déclarations directes concernant la cosmologie, beaucoup de choses peuvent encore être déterminé à partir du détail intrigant occasionnelle tombé accidentellement par les auteurs dans le cadre d'autres discussions.
La richesse de ces indices fournissent une ressource convaincante, et de fournir une image claire de ce que le Prophète Muhammad pensait ressemblait l'univers.

Now, it is recognized up front that (as in almost every other ancient text), some of what is reflected in the Qur'an was meant to be taken literally, while some is allegorical or symbolic. But such recognition does not give the reader license to simply reject some descriptions which are obviously in error without good reason. In fact, the cosmology suggested by the Qur'an and the Sunnah is remarkably consistent, regardless of the specific purpose of the particular story being read.

This is because at no point was the purpose of the Qur'an or the Sunnah to describe the structure of the universe. In almost every instance, such descriptions exist only as side effects of the other religious or ethical lessons that were the real objectives of the texts we consider. If a detail of cosmology is contained in an allegory, yet itself has no allegorical purpose, then it must be accepted as the actual understanding of the author. So, while we have only a handful of direct statements concerning cosmology, a lot can still be determined from the occasional intriguing detail accidentally dropped by the authors as part of other discussions.

The wealth of such hints provide a compelling resource, and provide a clear picture of what Prophet [[Muhammad]] thought the universe looked like.

==Analysis==

===The Heavens and the Earth===

Any accounting of the cosmology of the Qur'an must begin with the fact that the Islamic universe is extremely small and simple. It consists entirely of two (and only two) components; the [[heaven]]s and the earth.

There is no recognition of any of the other features of the universe that modern peoples take for granted. There is no concept of solar systems, of galaxies, or of “space.” There is no hint that the earth is a planet like the other planets visible from it, or that stars are other suns, just very far away. Qur'anic cosmology is primarily limited to that which is visible to the naked eye, and where the authors attempt describe what is not actually visible, they are invariably wrong.

The fundamental status of the “heavens and the earth” as the two key components of [[creation]] is emphasized repeatedly in the Qur'an, and it is the “separation” of the two that stands as the initial creative act of [[Allah]].

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|30}}|Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?}}

The exclusivity of these two venues is also repeatedly stressed. There is (for example) no third place within which things might exist or conversations might take place. Whenever the authors of the Qur'an want to make a point concerning Allah’s omniscience, for example, the phrase “in heaven or on earth” is invariably used as shorthand for the entire universe.

{{Quote|{{Quran|14|38}}|O our Lord! truly Thou dost know what we conceal and what we reveal: for nothing whatever is hidden from Allah, whether on earth or in heaven.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|4}}|Say: "My Lord knoweth (every) word (spoken) in the heavens and on earth: He is the One that heareth and knoweth (all things).}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|22|70}}|Knowest thou not that Allah knows all that is in heaven and on earth? Indeed it is all in a Record, and that is easy for Allah.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|31|26}}|To Allah belong all things in heaven and earth: verily Allah is He (that is) free of all wants, worthy of all praise.}}

The “heavens and the earth” are also described as a sort of “container” within which the entire Universe (that man experiences) operates. There is only heaven, earth, and the things between them.

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|16}}|Not for (idle) sport did We create the heavens and the earth and all that is between!}}

Not surprisingly, the nature of this space “between the heavens and the earth” is described according to the straightforward (if false) perception of a human standing on the ground. Looking in all directions, the Earth appears to be basically flat, and the circular horizon gives the impression of standing at the center of a flat disc. Looking up, the sky (heaven) appears as a solid blue dome reaching its greatest height directly overhead, and anchored at or beyond the horizon. This is essentially (as we will discuss in detail) what we find in the Qur'an.

Additionally, the Qur'an is clear that when Allah created the heavens and the earth, the earth came first.

{{Quote|{{cite quran|41|9|end=11|style=ref}}|Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters): Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days, and ascribe ye unto Him rivals? He (and none else) is the Lord of the Worlds. He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days, alike for (all) who ask; Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient.}}

And

{{Quote|{{Quran|2|29}}|He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things.}}

So there we have the basic framework. The earth is a flat disc, and the heavens are a solid dome (actually seven solid domes) overhead. For a look at more of the details, let us first consider the heavens.

===The Heavens and their Denizens===

As seen from the earth, the dome of the innermost heaven extends overhead, although in actuality they are more correctly described as seven concentric domes with the disk of the earth at their base.

{{Quote|{{Quran|2|29}}|It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|41|12}}|So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command.}}

These seven heavens are solid objects; this can be shown in several ways. For starters, they stand as barriers that both protect (as does a roof) and contain.

The protective nature of this roof is shown in verses such as:

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|32}}|And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!}}

And the fact that they are solid is shown by references to pieces of the heavens falling and potentially injuring residents of the earth.

{{Quote|{{Quran|34|9}}|See they not what is before them and behind them, of the sky and the earth? If We wished, We could cause the earth to swallow them up, or cause a piece of the sky to fall upon them. Verily in this is a Sign for every devotee that turns to Allah (in repentance).}}

In fact, they are so substantial that it is even conceivable to climb up onto them using a ladder.

{{Quote|{{Quran|6|35}}|If their spurning is hard on thy mind, yet if thou wert able to seek a tunnel in the ground or a ladder to the skies and bring them a sign,- (what good?).}}

And finally, the heavens are apparently heavy enough to require physical supports of some sort. Contrary to some claims, the Qur'an acknowledges that such supports are required, but also explains that they are invisible.

{{Quote|{{Quran|13|2}}|Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.}}

The authors here take it as obvious that the heavens require support of some kind. But their emphasis is on their invisibility, not their actual absence.

To further expound on the nature of the seven heavens, we need additional help from the [[hadith]]. Here we learn the distances between each heaven, as well as what is on the other side of the furthermost.

{{Quote|{{Abu Dawud|2|475}}|Narrated Al-Abbas ibn AbdulMuttalib: I was sitting in al-Batha with a company among whom the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) was sitting, when a cloud passed above them. The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) looked at it and said: What do you call this?

They said: Sahab.

He said: And muzn? They said: And muzn. He said: And anan? They said: And anan. AbuDawud said: I am not quite confident about the word anan. He asked: Do you know the distance between Heaven and Earth? They replied: We do not know. He then said: The distance between them is seventy-one, seventy-two, or seventy-three years. The heaven which is above it is at a similar distance (going on till he counted seven heavens). Above the seventh heaven there is a sea, the distance between whose surface and bottom is like that between one heaven and the next. Above that there are eight mountain goats the distance between whose hoofs and haunches is like the distance between one heaven and the next. Then Allah, the Blessed and the Exalted, is above that.}}

Ignoring the giant mountain goats which are never mentioned in the Qur'an itself, the outermost heaven lies beneath a sea that is as deep as the distances between adjacent heavens. That Allah’s “throne” is above such waters is mentioned in the Qur'an as well as the hadith.

{{Quote|{{Quran|11|7}}|He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death", the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!"}}

There are however no mentions of galaxies, quasars, galaxy clusters or empty space. Simply water, a throne, and Allah himself.

Additional details concerning the individual heavens are found in the accounts of Muhammad’s “night journey.” Rather than quoting at length, readers are referred to {{Bukhari|9|93|68}} for the long version. But here are the key points.

Each of the seven heavens is populated by multiple angels and a few other folks as well. These heavens are entered through doors in the solid domes, each with an angelic guard and each populated by a resident prophet. For example, immediately above the dome of the first heaven is where Muhammad met Adam, and discovered (in the absence of true geographic knowledge) the sources of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. The second heaven is the home of the Prophet Idris. Aaron is in the fourth heaven, Abraham the sixth, and Moses the seventh.

===The Celestial Objects===
Inside the nearest heaven (i.e. less than 73 years away) are the stars and (apparently) also the sun and [[moon]]. We can be certain that the stars are inside this closest heaven, as the Qur'an is quite explicit on this point.

{{Quote|{{Quran|37|6}}|We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|41|12}}|So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.}}

The idea that the stars might actually be objects on the scale of the sun, but much farther away was clearly missed by the authors of the Qur'an.

===The Sun and the Moon===

The sun and moon are a bit more ambiguous, as all we know is that they are in the “midst” of the heavens, and not explicitly inside the lowest of them.

{{Quote|{{Quran|71|16}}|And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?}}

These two lights (along with the stars and planets) follow prescribed paths along the curved walls of the solid heavenly domes.

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|33}}|It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.}}
{{Quote|{{Quran|36|40}}|It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).}}

And at the end of their daily paths across the sky, the sun (and presumably also the moon and stars) pass through the earth’s flat disk near the far Western edge using openings filled with water.

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|86}}|Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."}}

Once out of view of the humans that populate the top of the earthly disc, their motion stops, and they rest for the night in particular resting places.

{{Quote|{{Quran|36|38}}|And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.}}

At some point during the night, however (and here again we call to the hadith for details) the sun must negotiate its return the next day with a direct appeal for Allah’s permission.

{{Quote|{{Bukhari|4|54|421}}|Narrated Abu Dhar:

The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west.}}

And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah:

{{Quote|{{Quran|36|38}}|And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.}}

With permission to rise received, the sun passes back through the earthly disk near its Eastern edge to commence the next day. While no “muddy pools” are specifically mentioned for the sunrise, the description of people living nearby the exit point mirrors the description of the [[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring|place where the sun set]].

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|90}}|Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.}}

===Eclipses of the Sun or Moon===

The Qur'an demonstrates no understanding whatsoever of eclipses. Perhaps this is understandable. The hadith claim that Muhammad only experienced one solar eclipse during his lifetime, an experience which frightened him into a spectacular act of piety. But the Qur'an only makes a single reference to eclipses, and that is a lunar eclipse that will take place at the end of the world.

In fact, the Qur'an actually makes a statement that would conceivably make eclipses impossible.

{{Quote|{{Quran|36|40}}|It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).}}

For a solar eclipse to occur however, the sun and the moon actually must (from the perspective of the earth) "catch up" to each other in their "orbits." But since the moon itself is not visible at that time, the authors of the Qur'an never noticed this.

But then, when discussing the end of time the Qur'an assumes that a lunar eclipse (which can only occur when the sun and moon are on opposite sides of the earth) can occur at the same time the sun and moon finally do “catch up” to each other.

{{Quote|{{cite quran|75|6|end=9|style=ref}}|He asketh: “When will be this Day of Resurrection?” But when sight is confounded And the moon is eclipsed And sun and moon are united,}}

The “uniting” of the sun and the moon not only demonstrate a singular instance when they do “catch up” with each other, but also indicate that the authors of the Qur'an believed they were comparable in size. This is of course only an illusion of comparative distance.

===Night and Day===

The fact that the authors of the Qur'an did not realize that the sun and moon actually cause eclipses (as opposed to simply experiencing them) is similar to their failure to realize that the sun actually causes day and night. In the Qur'an, night is not simply the absence of day. Night and day are each specific, tangible creations of Allah, and they engage in a form of balanced conflict independent of the celestial bodies.

{{Quote|{{Quran|3|27}}|Thou causest the night to gain on the day, and thou causest the day to gain on the night; Thou bringest the Living out of the dead, and Thou bringest the dead out of the Living; and Thou givest sustenance to whom Thou pleasest, without measure.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|3|190}}|Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed Signs for men of understanding.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|13|3}}|He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider!}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|22|61}}|That is because Allah merges night into day, and He merges day into night, and verily it is Allah Who hears and sees (all things).}}

Day and night are clearly entities independent from the sun, moon or any other celestial objects. Even when considered in the same verse, night and day are independent of the sun, with no recognition that the sun causes either of them.

{{Quote|{{Quran|7|54}}|Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|14|33}}|And He hath made subject to you the sun and the moon, both diligently pursuing their courses; and the night and the day hath he (also) made subject to you.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|33}}|It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|31|29}}|’Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and he merges Day into Night; that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his Law), each running its course for a term appointed; and that Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do?}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|39|5}}|He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?}}

So, if the sun does not cause day and night, what is its purpose other than merely being the brighter of the two major celestial lamps?

Well, it turns out that the purpose of these objects is primarily time and calendar keeping.

{{Quote|{{Quran|6|96}}|He it is that cleaveth the day-break (from the dark): He makes the night for rest and tranquillity, and the sun and moon for the reckoning (of time): Such is the judgment and ordering of (Him), the Exalted in Power, the Omniscient.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|10|5}}|It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand.}}

===The Stars, Planets and Meteors===

It is not obvious from the [[Mistranslated Verses|translations]] of the Qur'an that the authors of the Qur'an actually distinguished between stars and planets, as the same word is often translated to mean either. But as ancient peoples generally knew that planets were different from ordinary stars (they moved) it is a safe assumption that the earliest Muslims were equally aware.

But the mistaken (if understandable) belief that stars are very small nearby objects is not merely reflected in the placement of them inside the nearest dome. As with most other ancient people, the authors of the Qur'an believed that meteors literally were “falling stars.” Yet with the unmistakable flavor of Arab martial creativity, they do not fall without purpose. [[Mistranslations of Quran 67-5|Verse 67:5]] tells us they are weapons against devils and jinn.

{{Quote|{{Quran|67|5}}|And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.}}

This appears to be part of the protective role of the heavens.

{{Quote|{{Quran|72|8}}|And (the Jinn who had listened to the Quran said): We had sought the heaven but had found it filled with strong warders and meteors.}}

===The Earth and its Denizens===

The authors of the Qur'an felt a lesser need to describe the nature of the earth than the heavens, since much of the earth’s nature was obvious to the people that lived upon it. There was simply much less to explain. But the descriptions that do exist provide us with unassailable conclusions.

First and foremost, the earth is flat. Repeatedly, the authors of the Qur'an use the same word to describe the “spreading out” of the earth that Arabs used to discuss the spreading out of a “carpet,” a usage that translators often make use of.

{{Quote|{{Quran|15|19}}|And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|20|53}}|"He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|43|10}}|(Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way);}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|50|7}}|And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)-}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|51|48}}|And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out!}}

In fact, at one point the Qur'an even emphasizes how much flatter the earth would be were it not for the mountains that disrupt the view.

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|47}}|One Day We shall remove the mountains, and thou wilt see the earth as a level stretch, and We shall gather them, all together, nor shall We leave out any one of them.}}

And in the same way one would stake down a tent or a carpet to keep it from shifting or blowing away, the mountains are described as serving [[The Quran and Mountains|this same purpose]].

{{Quote|{{Quran|16|15}}|And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves;}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|78|7}}|And the mountains as pegs?}}

Perhaps the one unclear facet of Islamic cosmology is the fact that the Qur'an mentions without explanation that there are (like the heavens), [[Science and the Seven Earths|seven earths]]:

{{Quote|{{Quran|65|12}}|Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.}}

The seven concentric domes of the heavens are fairly straightforward. The seven different earths are a bit more difficult to picture. One hint is given by the Qur'ans mention that in the same way “things” can “come down from” or “mount up to” the heavens, there are also things that can “come forth out of” or “enter within” the earth.

{{Quote|{{Quran|57|4}}|He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do.}}

This leads to the conclusion that the seven earths are stacked one atop the other, similar to a stack of coins. This view is confirmed in the hadith:

{{Quote|1=[{{Reference archive|1=http://www.oocities.org/tirmidhihadith/page8.html|2=2014-01-07}} Al Tirmidhi 5735]|2=Narrated AbuHurayrah:

While Allah's Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions were sitting clouds came over them and Allah's Prophet (peace be upon him) asked [...] "Do you know what is below you?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "It is the earth." He then asked, "Do you know what is under that?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "Under it there is another Earth with a journey of five hundred years between them," and so on till he had counted seven earths with a journey of five hundred years between each pair. He then said, "By Him in Whose hand Muhammad's soul is, if you were to drop a rope to the lowest earth it would not pass out of Allah's knowledge."...}}

===Where are Paradise and Hell?===

Islamic cosmology takes a perfectly prosaic position in terms of Paradise and [[Hell]], and places them firmly within the cosmos that consists of the heavens and the earth. The description of Muhammad’s “night journey” shows each of the seven heavens already populated with the departed prophets in Paradise. This is consistent with the Qur'ans description of the size of Paradise.

{{Quote|{{Quran|3|133}}|Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous,-}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|57|21}}|Be ye foremost (in seeking) Forgiveness from your Lord, and a Garden (of Bliss), the width whereof is as the width of heaven and earth, prepared for those who believe in Allah and His messengers: that is the Grace of Allah, which He bestows on whom he pleases: and Allah is the Lord of Grace abounding.}}

If the heavens (to include the seventh and largest) are already populated with denizens of Paradise, the width of Paradise would be precisely that of heaven and earth.

And since Paradise is on the other side of the first heaven, it follows that Hell is below the surface of the first earth, filling the spaces beneath and between the seven earths. This is consistent with the descriptions of hell as being a completely enclosed place.

{{Quote|{{Quran|7|41}}|For them there is Hell, as a couch (below) and folds and folds of covering above: such is Our requital of those who do wrong.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|9|49}}|Among them is (many) a man who says: "Grant me exemption and draw me not into trial." Have they not fallen into trial already? and indeed Hell surrounds the Unbelievers (on all sides).}}

Further, the direction of hell, when it is mentioned, is invariably “down.”''

{{Quote|{{Quran|52|13}}|That Day shall they be thrust down to the Fire of Hell, irresistibly.}}

Elsewhere, it is described as an underground dungeon.

{{Quote|{{Quran|17|8}}|It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, but if ye repeat (the crime) We shall repeat (the punishment), and We have appointed hell a dungeon for the disbelievers.}}

And in yet another reference, an observer is directed to “look down” in order to witness a denizen of hell.

{{Quote|{{cite quran|37|54|end=55|style=ref}}|(A voice) said: "Would ye like to look down?"
He looked down and saw him in the midst of the Fire.}}

And so, we have the Islamic Universe in completion.

==Conclusion==

The Qur'an is not a book of [[Islam and Science|science]]. As such, it makes no extended effort to describe the cosmos in the way a textbook might. Yet dealing as it does with universal questions of creation, purpose and fate it cannot avoid revealing its cosmological framework as it describes the workings of Allah.

In so doing, while it never comes out and says “this is the form of the universe,” a consistent and comprehensive cosmology still reveals itself. And to no surprise, this proves to be the mythical cosmos of 7th century Arabia rather than an accurate description of the real universe.

In the Qur'an, the entire universe is very small and contains simply the earth and its surrounding heavens. There are no galaxies, other solar systems, or such a thing as “outer space.”

The earth is the top-most of seven, flat discs, surrounded by the seven solid concentric domes of the heavens. The celestial objects that do exist (sun, moon, stars and planets) are quite small, very close, and they follow semi-circular paths within the innermost of the seven heavenly domes. When they are not in the sky above the earth, they are resting somewhere underneath it, except while petitioning Allah’s permission to return the following day (or night). Paradise exists between the seven heavens, and hell exists between the seven earths.

All of this is submerged in a cosmic sea, above which is the throne of Allah.

{{Core Science}}

==See Also==

{{Hub4|Cosmology|Cosmology}}
* [[Qur'an Explains the Universe]] - ''Muslim article''

{{Translation-links-english|[[Olamning Qurondagi manzarasi|Uzbek]]}}

[[Category:Qur'an]]
[[Category:Islam and Science]]
[[Category:Miracles]]
[[Category:THHuxley]]
[[ru:Коранический_взгляд_на_Вселенную]]
{{page_title|Cosmologie du Coran}}

Talk:Scientific Errors in the Quran

2014-10-09T15:13:26Z

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An error should be included only if it cannot be justified or explained in any way. In other words the error should be obvious. The following points should be noted:
* The error should not be attributable to a translation issue and must be valid for the verse in Arabic (when necessary, Arabic speakers should be consulted)
* The error should be shown in at least 2 translations (Shakir, Yusuf or Pickthall)
* These are the only translations that can be used
* Use the translation which is the most easy to understand.
* The error is obvious and cannot be attributed to "figure of speech". An example is "We will blow up the sky" (this is just an example and may not be a real verse). This should not be listed as an error. A counter-claim may be that they may have been talking about the sun expanding and engulfing the Earth (this will eventually happen). Errors that can be explained by apologists in this way should not be listed.
* If there is a plausible way that the verse could be interpreted that doesn't indicate an error (from an Islamic worldview where Allah exists), then it is not a demonstrable error unless evidence against the alternative explanation is given.
* The error should contradict what we know from science, history etc. rather than these facts simply causing a theological difficulty. For example, the Quran says that the moon was created for our benefit to reckon time, but we know that the moon existed long before humans. It is more of a theological difficulty why Allah would create it before it was needed.
* Weaker errors can be listed in a separate section at the bottom called "Other Quranic verses" with a note "The following are Quranic verses which may contain figures of speech but are still questionable". For this section, the verses should be listed without any section headings. The reason is that a record of such verses should still be kept but these verses should not be presented as obvious errors. These weaker verses are not as strong as others but they could still be seen as adding to the evidence against the Quran.

==Tasks Page==
See [[WikiIslam:Tasks/Scientific Errors in the Qur'an]] for tasks for this page.

==Removed errors / candidates for removal==
A record of the reasons errors were removed in case future editors unknowingly reinstate them.
===Where is allah===
It's the first contradiction and people to whom i gave the link thought the site was stupid because this first one isn't a contradiction. The quran says allah is everywhere metaphorically it means that he is on his throne but since he can see/hear/act everywhere we can say that he is everywhere. I think we should only have the clear contradictions here and there is many of them. There is no point in putting alot of contradictions that actually aren't that just takes down the credibility of the site.--[[User:Einstein reason|ArabSagan]] ([[User talk:Einstein reason|talk]]) 14:20, 8 October 2014 (PDT)
===Constellations===
For my edit here [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=Scientific_Errors_in_the_Qur%27an&curid=9078&diff=107462&oldid=107458]
: Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light; [http://quranx.com/25.61]
Basically its just saying "However the stars are made, we made them and we arranged them like that", so I agree with {{user|Lightyears}} unless Saggy you have any additional stuff to say. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 15:13, 15 May 2014 (PDT)
: "We arranged them like that" is the mistake. Same as the errors pointed out above it (sun, moon and its phases are made for our timekeeping and stars created for navigation). I wrote the light years to show stars are not where they appear (it may not be needed). Hence constellations are imaginations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Saggy|contribs]]) {{#if:| |}} ([[WikiIslam:Signatures#Signing_Posts|Remember to sign your comments]]) 
::To humans stars have a certain arrangement. Yes that arrangement would change if we were looking it from another place for example the center of the galaxy buy they have an arrangement for people on Earth.
::But good job on finding that other verse for the Stars in the lower heaven. Did you find that error verse yourself or you saw it somewhere else? If you saw it yourself, are you going through the Quran systematically chapter by chapter? Thats good. What are you using to browse the Quran, what website? --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 16:34, 16 May 2014 (PDT)
:::there are not many errors to find, i have not gone chapter by chapter recently (only for details article). decoration verse was already present.
:::You didnt yet decide on constel. What I am thinking upon recently is that we look for errors dont we? Then if something is removed, it has to be absolutely correct. Think like that. Is "Allah made constellations" or "mansions" correct? Any one of the two translations can be quoted and then the other explained. Also in [http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/36/39/default.htm 36:39], Moon has mansions (though the word is manzil and not burooj). one more question , if this constelation thing is refutable, doesnt it mean all mythology is true or zodiacs are true? I read this q somewhere. Then Why Islam rejects zodiacs as far as I know? This verse must soon go somewhere: here or the lack of details page or the questions to ask a muslim page. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 07:30, 17 May 2014 (PDT)
::::So what website do you use for looking at the Quran? Islam awakened?
:::: "we made constellations" = we arranged the stars like that. If it can be explained its not good to have it on the page. I dont know what the connection is for zodiacs. The verse is only talking about the stars arrangement, not zodiacs. I dont know what Islam says about zodiacs.
::::The moon verse [http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/36/39/default.htm] is just talking about the appearance of the moon. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 08:50, 17 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::Some stray translation includes zodiacs. "we arranged the stars" - as i said before, it cannot be explained. In 36:39 what i wanted to show is that moon has mansions. So its another case of faulty cosmology, same is with constellations being called mansions.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 03:38, 18 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::''"The error should not be attributable to a translation issue"''
::::::We cannot have the approach that we have to find the translation that includes the 'error' we want to point out. Looking at the all the translations as a whole its clear its talking about the arrangement of the stars, nothing more. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 04:52, 18 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::Can you do one thing - just add the Scientific Quran errors to your Sandbox page for now: [[User:Saggy/Sandbox_-_Issues_with_Quran_and_Hadith]]. These can be reviewed and added to the main article in the end when you're done. Its more mental work to review them one at a time. It will also be easier for you as you can do what you like in your Sandbox without feeling restricted. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 20:09, 18 May 2014 (PDT)
::::::::I see what Saggy means - what Saggy added when putting constellations back (and was originally missing) was that because stars are varying distances and a long way away, we are looking back in time when we see them - and a different amount of time for each star. So if a constellation consists of a star 50 light years away and another 1000 light years away, then their relative positions that we see today when their ancient light reaches our eyes does not reflect their actual relative positions. It's a clever and interesting point, but there are a couple of reasons why Muslims would still be very unmoved by the claim that there is an error here. Firstly, the stars that we can see in the constellations are all fairly close - a few hundred to about a thousand light years away. So what we see isn't significantly different to how they are ([http://news.discovery.com/space/history-of-space/changing-constellations-50000-years.htm this] indicates how much they move in 50000 years, but we're talking about hundreds). The other thing is that any Muslim who believes that Allah designed the constellations will have no trouble believing that he took the light travel time into account and was only concerned with how they look from earth.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 09:13, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::Your claims mean this: a Muslim must agree constellations have been made for us? Since constellations hardly change for hundred or thousand years and the age of those stars is certainly millions to billions of years, he must agree that Allah planted those stars with their perceived design on earth so long ago? We humans got separated from the chimps only some 1 or 2 million years ago? (for whoever is stuborn on Adam: he is dated as even more recent than evolution.) We started using those constellations for guidance or fun much later? All of this was planned for "us" billions of years ago? [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 10:57, 23 May 2014 (PDT)

::::::::::Exactly that. They would say the same for the position of the continents today or any number of things. Clearly Muslims have no problem with multi-million or billion year processes being set in motion with today's world as the end result in mind. Otherwise endless things about the world today would seem a problem for them. What originally triggered me to question the quality of this entry was when I saw a Muslim saying they laughed when they saw this one. It shouldn't be easy for anyone to pick what they see as a weak example to dismiss the whole page.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 11:16, 23 May 2014 (PDT)

:::::::::No, we are not Allah's reality TV. Such things were not pre-planned and anybody who still believes in the contrary is either ignorant or he's straight on the way to his 72 virgins which are obviously planned according to him :):):). Your approach is that somebody will cry out he has refuted an error and then we will have to cleanup. What about him digesting a hundred absurdities when trying to refute one? It always happens on answeringchristianity.org and all blogs where errors are discussed. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:19, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::Oh you replied. So let me add, some people even try to refute the sun takes permission froh Allah to rise hadith. We cant have a standard for who will believe in nonsense and to what extent and how we will cater him, but we must not lose content thereby. Btw, what did that guy think about the rest of the article? How come he rejected everything? Doesnt that show how ignorant he is?[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:25, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::::What i always have in mind and i suggested before is keeping the claim and gradually giving it a main article (then we dont have to worry whether it looks strong or weak claim at first sight). Look at the massive 2-part article on sun sets in muddy spring. I dont think anybody still wants to rescue that poor verse, does he? That must be the eventual aim.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:37, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::::You're right, some Muslims will laugh at any error claim so I take that back, though he thought this particularly bad. Re your previous point, yes it is absurd (as theology generally is), but it doesn't belong on the scientific errors page since it is a question of theology, how Allah behaves. It's not a statement about the world that can be proven false. No-one could prove scientifically that Allah wouldn't set things in motion at an early stage with today in mind. If there was something in the verse suggesting a time scale that would be potential for a scientific error. Rather, the verse implies a theological absurdity (given that we know the stars have been moving a long time), and one that would apply to all sorts of things like continental drift, not just consellations. It is good content as a theological point, so maybe there is / someone will make a page on this subject. Anyway, maybe we'll just have to disagree on this one. It's for someone else to decide whether the entry is put back on the scientific errors page or not. And the 2 part sun muddy spring article is mine (copied across by someone who runs this site from the quranspotlight blog I used to maintain) - I'm glad you like it :) [[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 11:54, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::::::How Allah behaves will easily go into the new article whose scope is not limited to errors.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 13:08, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::hi Lightyears, I agree with you when you say: ''"but there are a couple of reasons why Muslims would still be very unmoved by the claim that there is an error here''".
:::::::::This is the problem with some of Saggy's additions to this page. Some of the additions can be justified and it creates a problem for whoever links this page. Sometimes he has problems understanding what a verse or hadith is saying ([http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Forum#Womb_sentence another example] where there was no issue but he thought there was).
:::::::::The word "constellation" is a translation issue. Some translations use "big stars". The Quran is just saying "See how we arranged the stars" - which is what it looks like to humans. So I think it includes the meaning 'constellation' but is not limited to it (''"The word "burooj" in the first verse is translated to constellations, stars, and Zodiacal signs."'' [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Burooj])
:::::::::Here is something that you said and I agree with it 100% but Saggy refuses to understand this and keeps adding "non errors" or weak errors (at one point he said ''"there is no such thing as a weak error"'', not true) to this page and weakening it:
::::::::::''What originally triggered me to question the quality of this entry was when I saw a Muslim saying they laughed when they saw this one. '''It shouldn't be easy for anyone to pick what they see as a weak example to dismiss the whole page'''.''
:::::::::(bold is mine) I myself have seen another location where Saggy's addition was being mocked and things like that concern me greatly. One bad addition can lead to someone mocking the whole website. The fact that this Scientific errors page is one of the top 10 most visited pages on the site, makes the issue even more critical and it is therefore even more important for this page to be of high quality. I have discussed various issues like this with him and finally I have asked him not to add any verses to this page until the review template is gone. I have told him to do what he wants in his own Sandbox page where he has more freedom to do what he wants.
:::::::::Some of his additions may be issues of some kind but could be displayed on another page in another manner. At this point I'm not sure how that could be done but for now we can try to keep the Scientific errors page as strong as possible. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 16:25, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::Hi Axius, I very much agree. Any new errors need to be very strong, having carefully considered counter arguments and where necessary how the key words are used in lexicons, other verses. Most people won't read the whole of an already long list of errors (not that lots of errors isn't a good thing in one sense!), so that's another reason to keep weak ones out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lightyears|contribs]]) {{#if:| |}} ([[WikiIslam:Signatures#Signing_Posts|Remember to sign your comments]]) 
:::::::::::Thanks I agree. Its good to have a short strong page rather than a long weak/mediocre page.
:::::::::::Saggy, please also note what Lightyears said, in particular: ''"Any new errors need to be very strong, '''having carefully considered counter arguments'''"''. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 17:22, 23 May 2014 (PDT)

===Only Allah Knows the Gender of a Fetus (31:34)===
I removed this since it doesn't say "alone" in the Arabic (though it is generally assumed). After it says he knows what is in the wombs it says "and not" rather than "nor". It also doesn't specify anything about gender. Hadiths suggest that it refers to a bunch of things ("his life span, his deeds, and whether he will be among the wretched or the blessed").
Shakir's translation is most accurate here: "Surely Allah is He with Whom is the knowledge of the hour, and He sends down the rain and He knows what is in the wombs; and no one knows what he shall earn on the morrow; and no one knows in what land he shall die; surely Allah is Knowing, Aware."[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 05:58, 27 May 2014 (PDT)

===Earth fixed in place===
I removed the stuff on this from the geocentrism entry a few days ago since it's unclear from the Arabic (irrelevant that we know that the author of the Qur'an was a 7th century bedoin who almost certainly had such a view). It's still there using a different verse under the section The Earth does not rotate.

40:64 was already commented out (they probably saw that it only says fixed place in one translation). The Arabic word basically means a stable abode http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000029.pdf. The question is whether qararan here means a settled thing / place, or a place for settling (by humans). The womb is elsewhere described with this word (fee qararin - in a resting place), but a pregnant woman moves around, though the fetus is settled there. Also 27:61 uses the same word while talking about mountains, rivers, so it is perhaps saying that it's a good place for us to settle (rather than that the earth is settled). See also 2:36 where Satan is sent down and given in Earth a dwelling/place of settlement (using the same word as a participle). I'll leave it to an Arabic expert to decide what to do. The stuff about Allah casting down mountains "lest it (the earth) shake with you" could be useful.

As for 35:41, the word deviate in the quoted translation (cease, be removed etc in others) is زول which means (Lane Lexicon) to go away, depart, remove, shift, make remote, absense, cease to be. Most translations use these other meanings. I don't think we can say Earth's orbit/spin meets this definition. The word translated grasp/hold مسك means (Lane's Lexicon) retain, withold, maintain, hold fast, grasp, restrain, confine. Just as these definitions could be used to read an error here, the verse can plausibly be interpreted to mean (if you believe in Allah) that he confines the heavens and earth lest they veer off their unmentioned orbits.

Perhaps it could be eventually added under the other errors section. I think it's enough that there is no mention of the orbit or spin of the Earth which gives rise to day & night, seasons (so very important to humans), given that it does mentions the orbits of the moon and sun (the latter having no relevence to humans if it meant around the galaxy).--[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 09:19, 27 May 2014 (PDT)
:Thanks for analyzing this. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 17:10, 27 May 2014 (PDT)

Talk:Scientific Errors in the Quran

2014-10-09T15:12:18Z

Einstein reason: moved to contradictions in the quran' s talk page

==[Sticky] Instructions for editing this page==
: ''Under construction''
This page is linked often from other websites and should be edited with care.

An error should be included only if it cannot be justified or explained in any way. In other words the error should be obvious. The following points should be noted:
* The error should not be attributable to a translation issue and must be valid for the verse in Arabic (when necessary, Arabic speakers should be consulted)
* The error should be shown in at least 2 translations (Shakir, Yusuf or Pickthall)
* These are the only translations that can be used
* Use the translation which is the most easy to understand.
* The error is obvious and cannot be attributed to "figure of speech". An example is "We will blow up the sky" (this is just an example and may not be a real verse). This should not be listed as an error. A counter-claim may be that they may have been talking about the sun expanding and engulfing the Earth (this will eventually happen). Errors that can be explained by apologists in this way should not be listed.
* If there is a plausible way that the verse could be interpreted that doesn't indicate an error (from an Islamic worldview where Allah exists), then it is not a demonstrable error unless evidence against the alternative explanation is given.
* The error should contradict what we know from science, history etc. rather than these facts simply causing a theological difficulty. For example, the Quran says that the moon was created for our benefit to reckon time, but we know that the moon existed long before humans. It is more of a theological difficulty why Allah would create it before it was needed.
* Weaker errors can be listed in a separate section at the bottom called "Other Quranic verses" with a note "The following are Quranic verses which may contain figures of speech but are still questionable". For this section, the verses should be listed without any section headings. The reason is that a record of such verses should still be kept but these verses should not be presented as obvious errors. These weaker verses are not as strong as others but they could still be seen as adding to the evidence against the Quran.

==Tasks Page==
See [[WikiIslam:Tasks/Scientific Errors in the Qur'an]] for tasks for this page.

==Removed errors / candidates for removal==
A record of the reasons errors were removed in case future editors unknowingly reinstate them.
===Constellations===
For my edit here [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=Scientific_Errors_in_the_Qur%27an&curid=9078&diff=107462&oldid=107458]
: Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light; [http://quranx.com/25.61]
Basically its just saying "However the stars are made, we made them and we arranged them like that", so I agree with {{user|Lightyears}} unless Saggy you have any additional stuff to say. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 15:13, 15 May 2014 (PDT)
: "We arranged them like that" is the mistake. Same as the errors pointed out above it (sun, moon and its phases are made for our timekeeping and stars created for navigation). I wrote the light years to show stars are not where they appear (it may not be needed). Hence constellations are imaginations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Saggy|contribs]]) {{#if:| |}} ([[WikiIslam:Signatures#Signing_Posts|Remember to sign your comments]]) 
::To humans stars have a certain arrangement. Yes that arrangement would change if we were looking it from another place for example the center of the galaxy buy they have an arrangement for people on Earth.
::But good job on finding that other verse for the Stars in the lower heaven. Did you find that error verse yourself or you saw it somewhere else? If you saw it yourself, are you going through the Quran systematically chapter by chapter? Thats good. What are you using to browse the Quran, what website? --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 16:34, 16 May 2014 (PDT)
:::there are not many errors to find, i have not gone chapter by chapter recently (only for details article). decoration verse was already present.
:::You didnt yet decide on constel. What I am thinking upon recently is that we look for errors dont we? Then if something is removed, it has to be absolutely correct. Think like that. Is "Allah made constellations" or "mansions" correct? Any one of the two translations can be quoted and then the other explained. Also in [http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/36/39/default.htm 36:39], Moon has mansions (though the word is manzil and not burooj). one more question , if this constelation thing is refutable, doesnt it mean all mythology is true or zodiacs are true? I read this q somewhere. Then Why Islam rejects zodiacs as far as I know? This verse must soon go somewhere: here or the lack of details page or the questions to ask a muslim page. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 07:30, 17 May 2014 (PDT)
::::So what website do you use for looking at the Quran? Islam awakened?
:::: "we made constellations" = we arranged the stars like that. If it can be explained its not good to have it on the page. I dont know what the connection is for zodiacs. The verse is only talking about the stars arrangement, not zodiacs. I dont know what Islam says about zodiacs.
::::The moon verse [http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/36/39/default.htm] is just talking about the appearance of the moon. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 08:50, 17 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::Some stray translation includes zodiacs. "we arranged the stars" - as i said before, it cannot be explained. In 36:39 what i wanted to show is that moon has mansions. So its another case of faulty cosmology, same is with constellations being called mansions.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 03:38, 18 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::''"The error should not be attributable to a translation issue"''
::::::We cannot have the approach that we have to find the translation that includes the 'error' we want to point out. Looking at the all the translations as a whole its clear its talking about the arrangement of the stars, nothing more. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 04:52, 18 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::Can you do one thing - just add the Scientific Quran errors to your Sandbox page for now: [[User:Saggy/Sandbox_-_Issues_with_Quran_and_Hadith]]. These can be reviewed and added to the main article in the end when you're done. Its more mental work to review them one at a time. It will also be easier for you as you can do what you like in your Sandbox without feeling restricted. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 20:09, 18 May 2014 (PDT)
::::::::I see what Saggy means - what Saggy added when putting constellations back (and was originally missing) was that because stars are varying distances and a long way away, we are looking back in time when we see them - and a different amount of time for each star. So if a constellation consists of a star 50 light years away and another 1000 light years away, then their relative positions that we see today when their ancient light reaches our eyes does not reflect their actual relative positions. It's a clever and interesting point, but there are a couple of reasons why Muslims would still be very unmoved by the claim that there is an error here. Firstly, the stars that we can see in the constellations are all fairly close - a few hundred to about a thousand light years away. So what we see isn't significantly different to how they are ([http://news.discovery.com/space/history-of-space/changing-constellations-50000-years.htm this] indicates how much they move in 50000 years, but we're talking about hundreds). The other thing is that any Muslim who believes that Allah designed the constellations will have no trouble believing that he took the light travel time into account and was only concerned with how they look from earth.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 09:13, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::Your claims mean this: a Muslim must agree constellations have been made for us? Since constellations hardly change for hundred or thousand years and the age of those stars is certainly millions to billions of years, he must agree that Allah planted those stars with their perceived design on earth so long ago? We humans got separated from the chimps only some 1 or 2 million years ago? (for whoever is stuborn on Adam: he is dated as even more recent than evolution.) We started using those constellations for guidance or fun much later? All of this was planned for "us" billions of years ago? [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 10:57, 23 May 2014 (PDT)

::::::::::Exactly that. They would say the same for the position of the continents today or any number of things. Clearly Muslims have no problem with multi-million or billion year processes being set in motion with today's world as the end result in mind. Otherwise endless things about the world today would seem a problem for them. What originally triggered me to question the quality of this entry was when I saw a Muslim saying they laughed when they saw this one. It shouldn't be easy for anyone to pick what they see as a weak example to dismiss the whole page.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 11:16, 23 May 2014 (PDT)

:::::::::No, we are not Allah's reality TV. Such things were not pre-planned and anybody who still believes in the contrary is either ignorant or he's straight on the way to his 72 virgins which are obviously planned according to him :):):). Your approach is that somebody will cry out he has refuted an error and then we will have to cleanup. What about him digesting a hundred absurdities when trying to refute one? It always happens on answeringchristianity.org and all blogs where errors are discussed. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:19, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::Oh you replied. So let me add, some people even try to refute the sun takes permission froh Allah to rise hadith. We cant have a standard for who will believe in nonsense and to what extent and how we will cater him, but we must not lose content thereby. Btw, what did that guy think about the rest of the article? How come he rejected everything? Doesnt that show how ignorant he is?[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:25, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::::What i always have in mind and i suggested before is keeping the claim and gradually giving it a main article (then we dont have to worry whether it looks strong or weak claim at first sight). Look at the massive 2-part article on sun sets in muddy spring. I dont think anybody still wants to rescue that poor verse, does he? That must be the eventual aim.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:37, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::::You're right, some Muslims will laugh at any error claim so I take that back, though he thought this particularly bad. Re your previous point, yes it is absurd (as theology generally is), but it doesn't belong on the scientific errors page since it is a question of theology, how Allah behaves. It's not a statement about the world that can be proven false. No-one could prove scientifically that Allah wouldn't set things in motion at an early stage with today in mind. If there was something in the verse suggesting a time scale that would be potential for a scientific error. Rather, the verse implies a theological absurdity (given that we know the stars have been moving a long time), and one that would apply to all sorts of things like continental drift, not just consellations. It is good content as a theological point, so maybe there is / someone will make a page on this subject. Anyway, maybe we'll just have to disagree on this one. It's for someone else to decide whether the entry is put back on the scientific errors page or not. And the 2 part sun muddy spring article is mine (copied across by someone who runs this site from the quranspotlight blog I used to maintain) - I'm glad you like it :) [[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 11:54, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::::::How Allah behaves will easily go into the new article whose scope is not limited to errors.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 13:08, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::hi Lightyears, I agree with you when you say: ''"but there are a couple of reasons why Muslims would still be very unmoved by the claim that there is an error here''".
:::::::::This is the problem with some of Saggy's additions to this page. Some of the additions can be justified and it creates a problem for whoever links this page. Sometimes he has problems understanding what a verse or hadith is saying ([http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Forum#Womb_sentence another example] where there was no issue but he thought there was).
:::::::::The word "constellation" is a translation issue. Some translations use "big stars". The Quran is just saying "See how we arranged the stars" - which is what it looks like to humans. So I think it includes the meaning 'constellation' but is not limited to it (''"The word "burooj" in the first verse is translated to constellations, stars, and Zodiacal signs."'' [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Burooj])
:::::::::Here is something that you said and I agree with it 100% but Saggy refuses to understand this and keeps adding "non errors" or weak errors (at one point he said ''"there is no such thing as a weak error"'', not true) to this page and weakening it:
::::::::::''What originally triggered me to question the quality of this entry was when I saw a Muslim saying they laughed when they saw this one. '''It shouldn't be easy for anyone to pick what they see as a weak example to dismiss the whole page'''.''
:::::::::(bold is mine) I myself have seen another location where Saggy's addition was being mocked and things like that concern me greatly. One bad addition can lead to someone mocking the whole website. The fact that this Scientific errors page is one of the top 10 most visited pages on the site, makes the issue even more critical and it is therefore even more important for this page to be of high quality. I have discussed various issues like this with him and finally I have asked him not to add any verses to this page until the review template is gone. I have told him to do what he wants in his own Sandbox page where he has more freedom to do what he wants.
:::::::::Some of his additions may be issues of some kind but could be displayed on another page in another manner. At this point I'm not sure how that could be done but for now we can try to keep the Scientific errors page as strong as possible. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 16:25, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::Hi Axius, I very much agree. Any new errors need to be very strong, having carefully considered counter arguments and where necessary how the key words are used in lexicons, other verses. Most people won't read the whole of an already long list of errors (not that lots of errors isn't a good thing in one sense!), so that's another reason to keep weak ones out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lightyears|contribs]]) {{#if:| |}} ([[WikiIslam:Signatures#Signing_Posts|Remember to sign your comments]]) 
:::::::::::Thanks I agree. Its good to have a short strong page rather than a long weak/mediocre page.
:::::::::::Saggy, please also note what Lightyears said, in particular: ''"Any new errors need to be very strong, '''having carefully considered counter arguments'''"''. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 17:22, 23 May 2014 (PDT)

===Only Allah Knows the Gender of a Fetus (31:34)===
I removed this since it doesn't say "alone" in the Arabic (though it is generally assumed). After it says he knows what is in the wombs it says "and not" rather than "nor". It also doesn't specify anything about gender. Hadiths suggest that it refers to a bunch of things ("his life span, his deeds, and whether he will be among the wretched or the blessed").
Shakir's translation is most accurate here: "Surely Allah is He with Whom is the knowledge of the hour, and He sends down the rain and He knows what is in the wombs; and no one knows what he shall earn on the morrow; and no one knows in what land he shall die; surely Allah is Knowing, Aware."[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 05:58, 27 May 2014 (PDT)

===Earth fixed in place===
I removed the stuff on this from the geocentrism entry a few days ago since it's unclear from the Arabic (irrelevant that we know that the author of the Qur'an was a 7th century bedoin who almost certainly had such a view). It's still there using a different verse under the section The Earth does not rotate.

40:64 was already commented out (they probably saw that it only says fixed place in one translation). The Arabic word basically means a stable abode http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000029.pdf. The question is whether qararan here means a settled thing / place, or a place for settling (by humans). The womb is elsewhere described with this word (fee qararin - in a resting place), but a pregnant woman moves around, though the fetus is settled there. Also 27:61 uses the same word while talking about mountains, rivers, so it is perhaps saying that it's a good place for us to settle (rather than that the earth is settled). See also 2:36 where Satan is sent down and given in Earth a dwelling/place of settlement (using the same word as a participle). I'll leave it to an Arabic expert to decide what to do. The stuff about Allah casting down mountains "lest it (the earth) shake with you" could be useful.

As for 35:41, the word deviate in the quoted translation (cease, be removed etc in others) is زول which means (Lane Lexicon) to go away, depart, remove, shift, make remote, absense, cease to be. Most translations use these other meanings. I don't think we can say Earth's orbit/spin meets this definition. The word translated grasp/hold مسك means (Lane's Lexicon) retain, withold, maintain, hold fast, grasp, restrain, confine. Just as these definitions could be used to read an error here, the verse can plausibly be interpreted to mean (if you believe in Allah) that he confines the heavens and earth lest they veer off their unmentioned orbits.

Perhaps it could be eventually added under the other errors section. I think it's enough that there is no mention of the orbit or spin of the Earth which gives rise to day & night, seasons (so very important to humans), given that it does mentions the orbits of the moon and sun (the latter having no relevence to humans if it meant around the galaxy).--[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 09:19, 27 May 2014 (PDT)
:Thanks for analyzing this. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 17:10, 27 May 2014 (PDT)

WikiIslam:Sandbox/La cosmologie du Coran

2014-10-09T14:23:05Z

Einstein reason:

[[File:Ancient-Cosmology.jpg|right|thumb]]
Cet article analyse la nature et la structure de l'univers tel qu'il est décrit par le coran et la sunna.
==Introduction==

Cet article est conçu pour découvrir et expliquer la cosmologie présenté dans le Coran et la Sunna. Plus précisément, il va explorer la vision du Coran de la nature et de la structure de l'univers physique. Les intérpretations personelle des apologistes musulmans concernant le coran et le big bang, l'expansion de l'univers dans le coran sont analysés dans d'autres articles.

To no surprise, “Islamic Cosmology” was not advanced beyond that of any of its ancient neighbors, and in fact is far less sophisticated and accurate in its understanding than the Greeks or Romans that had preceded them by centuries. While other civilizations had (for example) long before realized that the earth was a globe, the Qur'an betrays no understanding that the earth is [[Flat Earth and the Quran|anything but flat]].

Sans surprise, La "Cosmologie coranique" n'a pas été plus avancée que celle de tribus de la péninsules arabique du 7ème siècle, et qui n'est même pas aussi sophistiquée et précise dans sa compréhension que les Grecs ou les Romains qui les avaient précédés par des siècles et qui avaient déja fait beaucoup d'avancées notemment sur la figure de la terre par Ptolemée et sur l'héliocenticité par http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarque_de_Samos et d'autres astronomes.

Maintenant, il est reconnu par les apologistes que (comme dans presque tous les autre texte antique), une partie de ce qui est dit dans le Coran devait être pris à la lettre, tandis que quelque soit allégorique ou symbolique. Mais cette reconnaissance ne donne pas la licence de lecteur à rejeter purement et simplement certaines descriptions qui sont évidemment dans l'erreur, sans raison valable. En fait, la cosmologie suggéré par le Coran et la Sunna est remarquablement uniforme, quel que soit le but précis de l'histoire particulière de lecture.
C'est parce que, à aucun moment était le but du Coran ou de la Sunna pour décrire la structure de l'univers. Dans presque tous les cas, ces descriptions n'existent que comme des effets secondaires des autres enseignements religieux ou éthiques qui étaient les véritables objectifs des textes que nous considérons. Si un détail de la cosmologie est contenue dans une allégorie, mais lui-même n'a pas de but allégorique, alors il doit être accepté que la compréhension réelle de l'auteur. Ainsi, alors que nous avons seulement une poignée de déclarations directes concernant la cosmologie, beaucoup de choses peuvent encore être déterminé à partir du détail intrigant occasionnelle tombé accidentellement par les auteurs dans le cadre d'autres discussions.
La richesse de ces indices fournissent une ressource convaincante, et de fournir une image claire de ce que le Prophète Muhammad pensait ressemblait l'univers.

Now, it is recognized up front that (as in almost every other ancient text), some of what is reflected in the Qur'an was meant to be taken literally, while some is allegorical or symbolic. But such recognition does not give the reader license to simply reject some descriptions which are obviously in error without good reason. In fact, the cosmology suggested by the Qur'an and the Sunnah is remarkably consistent, regardless of the specific purpose of the particular story being read.

This is because at no point was the purpose of the Qur'an or the Sunnah to describe the structure of the universe. In almost every instance, such descriptions exist only as side effects of the other religious or ethical lessons that were the real objectives of the texts we consider. If a detail of cosmology is contained in an allegory, yet itself has no allegorical purpose, then it must be accepted as the actual understanding of the author. So, while we have only a handful of direct statements concerning cosmology, a lot can still be determined from the occasional intriguing detail accidentally dropped by the authors as part of other discussions.

The wealth of such hints provide a compelling resource, and provide a clear picture of what Prophet [[Muhammad]] thought the universe looked like.

==Analysis==

===The Heavens and the Earth===

Any accounting of the cosmology of the Qur'an must begin with the fact that the Islamic universe is extremely small and simple. It consists entirely of two (and only two) components; the [[heaven]]s and the earth.

There is no recognition of any of the other features of the universe that modern peoples take for granted. There is no concept of solar systems, of galaxies, or of “space.” There is no hint that the earth is a planet like the other planets visible from it, or that stars are other suns, just very far away. Qur'anic cosmology is primarily limited to that which is visible to the naked eye, and where the authors attempt describe what is not actually visible, they are invariably wrong.

The fundamental status of the “heavens and the earth” as the two key components of [[creation]] is emphasized repeatedly in the Qur'an, and it is the “separation” of the two that stands as the initial creative act of [[Allah]].

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|30}}|Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?}}

The exclusivity of these two venues is also repeatedly stressed. There is (for example) no third place within which things might exist or conversations might take place. Whenever the authors of the Qur'an want to make a point concerning Allah’s omniscience, for example, the phrase “in heaven or on earth” is invariably used as shorthand for the entire universe.

{{Quote|{{Quran|14|38}}|O our Lord! truly Thou dost know what we conceal and what we reveal: for nothing whatever is hidden from Allah, whether on earth or in heaven.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|4}}|Say: "My Lord knoweth (every) word (spoken) in the heavens and on earth: He is the One that heareth and knoweth (all things).}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|22|70}}|Knowest thou not that Allah knows all that is in heaven and on earth? Indeed it is all in a Record, and that is easy for Allah.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|31|26}}|To Allah belong all things in heaven and earth: verily Allah is He (that is) free of all wants, worthy of all praise.}}

The “heavens and the earth” are also described as a sort of “container” within which the entire Universe (that man experiences) operates. There is only heaven, earth, and the things between them.

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|16}}|Not for (idle) sport did We create the heavens and the earth and all that is between!}}

Not surprisingly, the nature of this space “between the heavens and the earth” is described according to the straightforward (if false) perception of a human standing on the ground. Looking in all directions, the Earth appears to be basically flat, and the circular horizon gives the impression of standing at the center of a flat disc. Looking up, the sky (heaven) appears as a solid blue dome reaching its greatest height directly overhead, and anchored at or beyond the horizon. This is essentially (as we will discuss in detail) what we find in the Qur'an.

Additionally, the Qur'an is clear that when Allah created the heavens and the earth, the earth came first.

{{Quote|{{cite quran|41|9|end=11|style=ref}}|Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters): Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days, and ascribe ye unto Him rivals? He (and none else) is the Lord of the Worlds. He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days, alike for (all) who ask; Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient.}}

And

{{Quote|{{Quran|2|29}}|He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things.}}

So there we have the basic framework. The earth is a flat disc, and the heavens are a solid dome (actually seven solid domes) overhead. For a look at more of the details, let us first consider the heavens.

===The Heavens and their Denizens===

As seen from the earth, the dome of the innermost heaven extends overhead, although in actuality they are more correctly described as seven concentric domes with the disk of the earth at their base.

{{Quote|{{Quran|2|29}}|It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|41|12}}|So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command.}}

These seven heavens are solid objects; this can be shown in several ways. For starters, they stand as barriers that both protect (as does a roof) and contain.

The protective nature of this roof is shown in verses such as:

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|32}}|And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!}}

And the fact that they are solid is shown by references to pieces of the heavens falling and potentially injuring residents of the earth.

{{Quote|{{Quran|34|9}}|See they not what is before them and behind them, of the sky and the earth? If We wished, We could cause the earth to swallow them up, or cause a piece of the sky to fall upon them. Verily in this is a Sign for every devotee that turns to Allah (in repentance).}}

In fact, they are so substantial that it is even conceivable to climb up onto them using a ladder.

{{Quote|{{Quran|6|35}}|If their spurning is hard on thy mind, yet if thou wert able to seek a tunnel in the ground or a ladder to the skies and bring them a sign,- (what good?).}}

And finally, the heavens are apparently heavy enough to require physical supports of some sort. Contrary to some claims, the Qur'an acknowledges that such supports are required, but also explains that they are invisible.

{{Quote|{{Quran|13|2}}|Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.}}

The authors here take it as obvious that the heavens require support of some kind. But their emphasis is on their invisibility, not their actual absence.

To further expound on the nature of the seven heavens, we need additional help from the [[hadith]]. Here we learn the distances between each heaven, as well as what is on the other side of the furthermost.

{{Quote|{{Abu Dawud|2|475}}|Narrated Al-Abbas ibn AbdulMuttalib: I was sitting in al-Batha with a company among whom the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) was sitting, when a cloud passed above them. The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) looked at it and said: What do you call this?

They said: Sahab.

He said: And muzn? They said: And muzn. He said: And anan? They said: And anan. AbuDawud said: I am not quite confident about the word anan. He asked: Do you know the distance between Heaven and Earth? They replied: We do not know. He then said: The distance between them is seventy-one, seventy-two, or seventy-three years. The heaven which is above it is at a similar distance (going on till he counted seven heavens). Above the seventh heaven there is a sea, the distance between whose surface and bottom is like that between one heaven and the next. Above that there are eight mountain goats the distance between whose hoofs and haunches is like the distance between one heaven and the next. Then Allah, the Blessed and the Exalted, is above that.}}

Ignoring the giant mountain goats which are never mentioned in the Qur'an itself, the outermost heaven lies beneath a sea that is as deep as the distances between adjacent heavens. That Allah’s “throne” is above such waters is mentioned in the Qur'an as well as the hadith.

{{Quote|{{Quran|11|7}}|He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death", the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!"}}

There are however no mentions of galaxies, quasars, galaxy clusters or empty space. Simply water, a throne, and Allah himself.

Additional details concerning the individual heavens are found in the accounts of Muhammad’s “night journey.” Rather than quoting at length, readers are referred to {{Bukhari|9|93|68}} for the long version. But here are the key points.

Each of the seven heavens is populated by multiple angels and a few other folks as well. These heavens are entered through doors in the solid domes, each with an angelic guard and each populated by a resident prophet. For example, immediately above the dome of the first heaven is where Muhammad met Adam, and discovered (in the absence of true geographic knowledge) the sources of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. The second heaven is the home of the Prophet Idris. Aaron is in the fourth heaven, Abraham the sixth, and Moses the seventh.

===The Celestial Objects===
Inside the nearest heaven (i.e. less than 73 years away) are the stars and (apparently) also the sun and [[moon]]. We can be certain that the stars are inside this closest heaven, as the Qur'an is quite explicit on this point.

{{Quote|{{Quran|37|6}}|We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|41|12}}|So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.}}

The idea that the stars might actually be objects on the scale of the sun, but much farther away was clearly missed by the authors of the Qur'an.

===The Sun and the Moon===

The sun and moon are a bit more ambiguous, as all we know is that they are in the “midst” of the heavens, and not explicitly inside the lowest of them.

{{Quote|{{Quran|71|16}}|And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?}}

These two lights (along with the stars and planets) follow prescribed paths along the curved walls of the solid heavenly domes.

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|33}}|It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.}}
{{Quote|{{Quran|36|40}}|It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).}}

And at the end of their daily paths across the sky, the sun (and presumably also the moon and stars) pass through the earth’s flat disk near the far Western edge using openings filled with water.

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|86}}|Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."}}

Once out of view of the humans that populate the top of the earthly disc, their motion stops, and they rest for the night in particular resting places.

{{Quote|{{Quran|36|38}}|And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.}}

At some point during the night, however (and here again we call to the hadith for details) the sun must negotiate its return the next day with a direct appeal for Allah’s permission.

{{Quote|{{Bukhari|4|54|421}}|Narrated Abu Dhar:

The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west.}}

And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah:

{{Quote|{{Quran|36|38}}|And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.}}

With permission to rise received, the sun passes back through the earthly disk near its Eastern edge to commence the next day. While no “muddy pools” are specifically mentioned for the sunrise, the description of people living nearby the exit point mirrors the description of the [[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring|place where the sun set]].

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|90}}|Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.}}

===Eclipses of the Sun or Moon===

The Qur'an demonstrates no understanding whatsoever of eclipses. Perhaps this is understandable. The hadith claim that Muhammad only experienced one solar eclipse during his lifetime, an experience which frightened him into a spectacular act of piety. But the Qur'an only makes a single reference to eclipses, and that is a lunar eclipse that will take place at the end of the world.

In fact, the Qur'an actually makes a statement that would conceivably make eclipses impossible.

{{Quote|{{Quran|36|40}}|It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).}}

For a solar eclipse to occur however, the sun and the moon actually must (from the perspective of the earth) "catch up" to each other in their "orbits." But since the moon itself is not visible at that time, the authors of the Qur'an never noticed this.

But then, when discussing the end of time the Qur'an assumes that a lunar eclipse (which can only occur when the sun and moon are on opposite sides of the earth) can occur at the same time the sun and moon finally do “catch up” to each other.

{{Quote|{{cite quran|75|6|end=9|style=ref}}|He asketh: “When will be this Day of Resurrection?” But when sight is confounded And the moon is eclipsed And sun and moon are united,}}

The “uniting” of the sun and the moon not only demonstrate a singular instance when they do “catch up” with each other, but also indicate that the authors of the Qur'an believed they were comparable in size. This is of course only an illusion of comparative distance.

===Night and Day===

The fact that the authors of the Qur'an did not realize that the sun and moon actually cause eclipses (as opposed to simply experiencing them) is similar to their failure to realize that the sun actually causes day and night. In the Qur'an, night is not simply the absence of day. Night and day are each specific, tangible creations of Allah, and they engage in a form of balanced conflict independent of the celestial bodies.

{{Quote|{{Quran|3|27}}|Thou causest the night to gain on the day, and thou causest the day to gain on the night; Thou bringest the Living out of the dead, and Thou bringest the dead out of the Living; and Thou givest sustenance to whom Thou pleasest, without measure.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|3|190}}|Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed Signs for men of understanding.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|13|3}}|He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider!}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|22|61}}|That is because Allah merges night into day, and He merges day into night, and verily it is Allah Who hears and sees (all things).}}

Day and night are clearly entities independent from the sun, moon or any other celestial objects. Even when considered in the same verse, night and day are independent of the sun, with no recognition that the sun causes either of them.

{{Quote|{{Quran|7|54}}|Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|14|33}}|And He hath made subject to you the sun and the moon, both diligently pursuing their courses; and the night and the day hath he (also) made subject to you.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|33}}|It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|31|29}}|’Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and he merges Day into Night; that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his Law), each running its course for a term appointed; and that Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do?}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|39|5}}|He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?}}

So, if the sun does not cause day and night, what is its purpose other than merely being the brighter of the two major celestial lamps?

Well, it turns out that the purpose of these objects is primarily time and calendar keeping.

{{Quote|{{Quran|6|96}}|He it is that cleaveth the day-break (from the dark): He makes the night for rest and tranquillity, and the sun and moon for the reckoning (of time): Such is the judgment and ordering of (Him), the Exalted in Power, the Omniscient.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|10|5}}|It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand.}}

===The Stars, Planets and Meteors===

It is not obvious from the [[Mistranslated Verses|translations]] of the Qur'an that the authors of the Qur'an actually distinguished between stars and planets, as the same word is often translated to mean either. But as ancient peoples generally knew that planets were different from ordinary stars (they moved) it is a safe assumption that the earliest Muslims were equally aware.

But the mistaken (if understandable) belief that stars are very small nearby objects is not merely reflected in the placement of them inside the nearest dome. As with most other ancient people, the authors of the Qur'an believed that meteors literally were “falling stars.” Yet with the unmistakable flavor of Arab martial creativity, they do not fall without purpose. [[Mistranslations of Quran 67-5|Verse 67:5]] tells us they are weapons against devils and jinn.

{{Quote|{{Quran|67|5}}|And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.}}

This appears to be part of the protective role of the heavens.

{{Quote|{{Quran|72|8}}|And (the Jinn who had listened to the Quran said): We had sought the heaven but had found it filled with strong warders and meteors.}}

===The Earth and its Denizens===

The authors of the Qur'an felt a lesser need to describe the nature of the earth than the heavens, since much of the earth’s nature was obvious to the people that lived upon it. There was simply much less to explain. But the descriptions that do exist provide us with unassailable conclusions.

First and foremost, the earth is flat. Repeatedly, the authors of the Qur'an use the same word to describe the “spreading out” of the earth that Arabs used to discuss the spreading out of a “carpet,” a usage that translators often make use of.

{{Quote|{{Quran|15|19}}|And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|20|53}}|"He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|43|10}}|(Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way);}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|50|7}}|And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)-}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|51|48}}|And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out!}}

In fact, at one point the Qur'an even emphasizes how much flatter the earth would be were it not for the mountains that disrupt the view.

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|47}}|One Day We shall remove the mountains, and thou wilt see the earth as a level stretch, and We shall gather them, all together, nor shall We leave out any one of them.}}

And in the same way one would stake down a tent or a carpet to keep it from shifting or blowing away, the mountains are described as serving [[The Quran and Mountains|this same purpose]].

{{Quote|{{Quran|16|15}}|And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves;}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|78|7}}|And the mountains as pegs?}}

Perhaps the one unclear facet of Islamic cosmology is the fact that the Qur'an mentions without explanation that there are (like the heavens), [[Science and the Seven Earths|seven earths]]:

{{Quote|{{Quran|65|12}}|Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.}}

The seven concentric domes of the heavens are fairly straightforward. The seven different earths are a bit more difficult to picture. One hint is given by the Qur'ans mention that in the same way “things” can “come down from” or “mount up to” the heavens, there are also things that can “come forth out of” or “enter within” the earth.

{{Quote|{{Quran|57|4}}|He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do.}}

This leads to the conclusion that the seven earths are stacked one atop the other, similar to a stack of coins. This view is confirmed in the hadith:

{{Quote|1=[{{Reference archive|1=http://www.oocities.org/tirmidhihadith/page8.html|2=2014-01-07}} Al Tirmidhi 5735]|2=Narrated AbuHurayrah:

While Allah's Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions were sitting clouds came over them and Allah's Prophet (peace be upon him) asked [...] "Do you know what is below you?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "It is the earth." He then asked, "Do you know what is under that?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "Under it there is another Earth with a journey of five hundred years between them," and so on till he had counted seven earths with a journey of five hundred years between each pair. He then said, "By Him in Whose hand Muhammad's soul is, if you were to drop a rope to the lowest earth it would not pass out of Allah's knowledge."...}}

===Where are Paradise and Hell?===

Islamic cosmology takes a perfectly prosaic position in terms of Paradise and [[Hell]], and places them firmly within the cosmos that consists of the heavens and the earth. The description of Muhammad’s “night journey” shows each of the seven heavens already populated with the departed prophets in Paradise. This is consistent with the Qur'ans description of the size of Paradise.

{{Quote|{{Quran|3|133}}|Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous,-}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|57|21}}|Be ye foremost (in seeking) Forgiveness from your Lord, and a Garden (of Bliss), the width whereof is as the width of heaven and earth, prepared for those who believe in Allah and His messengers: that is the Grace of Allah, which He bestows on whom he pleases: and Allah is the Lord of Grace abounding.}}

If the heavens (to include the seventh and largest) are already populated with denizens of Paradise, the width of Paradise would be precisely that of heaven and earth.

And since Paradise is on the other side of the first heaven, it follows that Hell is below the surface of the first earth, filling the spaces beneath and between the seven earths. This is consistent with the descriptions of hell as being a completely enclosed place.

{{Quote|{{Quran|7|41}}|For them there is Hell, as a couch (below) and folds and folds of covering above: such is Our requital of those who do wrong.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|9|49}}|Among them is (many) a man who says: "Grant me exemption and draw me not into trial." Have they not fallen into trial already? and indeed Hell surrounds the Unbelievers (on all sides).}}

Further, the direction of hell, when it is mentioned, is invariably “down.”''

{{Quote|{{Quran|52|13}}|That Day shall they be thrust down to the Fire of Hell, irresistibly.}}

Elsewhere, it is described as an underground dungeon.

{{Quote|{{Quran|17|8}}|It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, but if ye repeat (the crime) We shall repeat (the punishment), and We have appointed hell a dungeon for the disbelievers.}}

And in yet another reference, an observer is directed to “look down” in order to witness a denizen of hell.

{{Quote|{{cite quran|37|54|end=55|style=ref}}|(A voice) said: "Would ye like to look down?"
He looked down and saw him in the midst of the Fire.}}

And so, we have the Islamic Universe in completion.

==Conclusion==

The Qur'an is not a book of [[Islam and Science|science]]. As such, it makes no extended effort to describe the cosmos in the way a textbook might. Yet dealing as it does with universal questions of creation, purpose and fate it cannot avoid revealing its cosmological framework as it describes the workings of Allah.

In so doing, while it never comes out and says “this is the form of the universe,” a consistent and comprehensive cosmology still reveals itself. And to no surprise, this proves to be the mythical cosmos of 7th century Arabia rather than an accurate description of the real universe.

In the Qur'an, the entire universe is very small and contains simply the earth and its surrounding heavens. There are no galaxies, other solar systems, or such a thing as “outer space.”

The earth is the top-most of seven, flat discs, surrounded by the seven solid concentric domes of the heavens. The celestial objects that do exist (sun, moon, stars and planets) are quite small, very close, and they follow semi-circular paths within the innermost of the seven heavenly domes. When they are not in the sky above the earth, they are resting somewhere underneath it, except while petitioning Allah’s permission to return the following day (or night). Paradise exists between the seven heavens, and hell exists between the seven earths.

All of this is submerged in a cosmic sea, above which is the throne of Allah.

{{Core Science}}

==See Also==

{{Hub4|Cosmology|Cosmology}}
* [[Qur'an Explains the Universe]] - ''Muslim article''

{{Translation-links-english|[[Olamning Qurondagi manzarasi|Uzbek]]}}

[[Category:Qur'an]]
[[Category:Islam and Science]]
[[Category:Miracles]]
[[Category:THHuxley]]
[[ru:Коранический_взгляд_на_Вселенную]]
{{page_title|Cosmologie du Coran}}

WikiIslam:Sandbox/La cosmologie du Coran

2014-10-09T14:02:59Z

Einstein reason:

[[File:Ancient-Cosmology.jpg|right|thumb]]
Cet article analyse la nature et la structure de l'univers tel qu'il est décrit par le coran et la sunna.
==Introduction==

Cet article est conçu pour découvrir et expliquer la cosmologie présenté dans le Coran et la Sunna. Plus précisément, il va explorer la vision du Coran de la nature et de la structure de l'univers physique. Les intérpretations personelle des apologistes musulmans concernant le coran et le big bang, l'expansion de l'univers dans le coran sont analysés dans d'autres articles.

To no surprise, “Islamic Cosmology” was not advanced beyond that of any of its ancient neighbors, and in fact is far less sophisticated and accurate in its understanding than the Greeks or Romans that had preceded them by centuries. While other civilizations had (for example) long before realized that the earth was a globe, the Qur'an betrays no understanding that the earth is [[Flat Earth and the Quran|anything but flat]].

Sans surprise, La "Cosmologie coranique" n'a pas été plus avancée que celle de tribus de la péninsules arabique du 7ème siècle, et qui n'est même pas aussi sophistiquée et précise dans sa compréhension que les Grecs ou les Romains qui les avaient précédés par des siècles et qui avaient déja fait beaucoup d'avancées notemment sur la figure de la terre par Ptolemée et sur l'héliocenticité par http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aristarque_de_Samos et d'autres astronomes.

Maintenant, il est reconnu par les apologistes que (comme dans presque tous les autre texte antique), une partie de ce qui est dit dans le Coran devait être pris à la lettre, tandis que quelque soit allégorique ou symbolique. Mais cette reconnaissance ne donne pas la licence de lecteur à rejeter purement et simplement certaines descriptions qui sont évidemment dans l'erreur, sans raison valable. En fait, la cosmologie suggéré par le Coran et la Sunna est remarquablement uniforme, quel que soit le but précis de l'histoire particulière de lecture.
C'est parce que, à aucun moment était le but du Coran ou de la Sunna pour décrire la structure de l'univers. Dans presque tous les cas, ces descriptions n'existent que comme des effets secondaires des autres enseignements religieux ou éthiques qui étaient les véritables objectifs des textes que nous considérons. Si un détail de la cosmologie est contenue dans une allégorie, mais lui-même n'a pas de but allégorique, alors il doit être accepté que la compréhension réelle de l'auteur. Ainsi, alors que nous avons seulement une poignée de déclarations directes concernant la cosmologie, beaucoup de choses peuvent encore être déterminé à partir du détail intrigant occasionnelle tombé accidentellement par les auteurs dans le cadre d'autres discussions.
La richesse de ces indices fournissent une ressource convaincante, et de fournir une image claire de ce que le Prophète Muhammad pensait ressemblait l'univers.

Now, it is recognized up front that (as in almost every other ancient text), some of what is reflected in the Qur'an was meant to be taken literally, while some is allegorical or symbolic. But such recognition does not give the reader license to simply reject some descriptions which are obviously in error without good reason. In fact, the cosmology suggested by the Qur'an and the Sunnah is remarkably consistent, regardless of the specific purpose of the particular story being read.

This is because at no point was the purpose of the Qur'an or the Sunnah to describe the structure of the universe. In almost every instance, such descriptions exist only as side effects of the other religious or ethical lessons that were the real objectives of the texts we consider. If a detail of cosmology is contained in an allegory, yet itself has no allegorical purpose, then it must be accepted as the actual understanding of the author. So, while we have only a handful of direct statements concerning cosmology, a lot can still be determined from the occasional intriguing detail accidentally dropped by the authors as part of other discussions.

The wealth of such hints provide a compelling resource, and provide a clear picture of what Prophet [[Muhammad]] thought the universe looked like.

==Analysis==

===The Heavens and the Earth===

Any accounting of the cosmology of the Qur'an must begin with the fact that the Islamic universe is extremely small and simple. It consists entirely of two (and only two) components; the [[heaven]]s and the earth.

There is no recognition of any of the other features of the universe that modern peoples take for granted. There is no concept of solar systems, of galaxies, or of “space.” There is no hint that the earth is a planet like the other planets visible from it, or that stars are other suns, just very far away. Qur'anic cosmology is primarily limited to that which is visible to the naked eye, and where the authors attempt describe what is not actually visible, they are invariably wrong.

The fundamental status of the “heavens and the earth” as the two key components of [[creation]] is emphasized repeatedly in the Qur'an, and it is the “separation” of the two that stands as the initial creative act of [[Allah]].

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|30}}|Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?}}

The exclusivity of these two venues is also repeatedly stressed. There is (for example) no third place within which things might exist or conversations might take place. Whenever the authors of the Qur'an want to make a point concerning Allah’s omniscience, for example, the phrase “in heaven or on earth” is invariably used as shorthand for the entire universe.

{{Quote|{{Quran|14|38}}|O our Lord! truly Thou dost know what we conceal and what we reveal: for nothing whatever is hidden from Allah, whether on earth or in heaven.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|4}}|Say: "My Lord knoweth (every) word (spoken) in the heavens and on earth: He is the One that heareth and knoweth (all things).}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|22|70}}|Knowest thou not that Allah knows all that is in heaven and on earth? Indeed it is all in a Record, and that is easy for Allah.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|31|26}}|To Allah belong all things in heaven and earth: verily Allah is He (that is) free of all wants, worthy of all praise.}}

The “heavens and the earth” are also described as a sort of “container” within which the entire Universe (that man experiences) operates. There is only heaven, earth, and the things between them.

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|16}}|Not for (idle) sport did We create the heavens and the earth and all that is between!}}

Not surprisingly, the nature of this space “between the heavens and the earth” is described according to the straightforward (if false) perception of a human standing on the ground. Looking in all directions, the Earth appears to be basically flat, and the circular horizon gives the impression of standing at the center of a flat disc. Looking up, the sky (heaven) appears as a solid blue dome reaching its greatest height directly overhead, and anchored at or beyond the horizon. This is essentially (as we will discuss in detail) what we find in the Qur'an.

Additionally, the Qur'an is clear that when Allah created the heavens and the earth, the earth came first.

{{Quote|{{cite quran|41|9|end=11|style=ref}}|Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters): Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days, and ascribe ye unto Him rivals? He (and none else) is the Lord of the Worlds. He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days, alike for (all) who ask; Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient.}}

And

{{Quote|{{Quran|2|29}}|He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things.}}

So there we have the basic framework. The earth is a flat disc, and the heavens are a solid dome (actually seven solid domes) overhead. For a look at more of the details, let us first consider the heavens.

===The Heavens and their Denizens===

As seen from the earth, the dome of the innermost heaven extends overhead, although in actuality they are more correctly described as seven concentric domes with the disk of the earth at their base.

{{Quote|{{Quran|2|29}}|It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|41|12}}|So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command.}}

These seven heavens are solid objects; this can be shown in several ways. For starters, they stand as barriers that both protect (as does a roof) and contain.

The protective nature of this roof is shown in verses such as:

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|32}}|And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!}}

And the fact that they are solid is shown by references to pieces of the heavens falling and potentially injuring residents of the earth.

{{Quote|{{Quran|34|9}}|See they not what is before them and behind them, of the sky and the earth? If We wished, We could cause the earth to swallow them up, or cause a piece of the sky to fall upon them. Verily in this is a Sign for every devotee that turns to Allah (in repentance).}}

In fact, they are so substantial that it is even conceivable to climb up onto them using a ladder.

{{Quote|{{Quran|6|35}}|If their spurning is hard on thy mind, yet if thou wert able to seek a tunnel in the ground or a ladder to the skies and bring them a sign,- (what good?).}}

And finally, the heavens are apparently heavy enough to require physical supports of some sort. Contrary to some claims, the Qur'an acknowledges that such supports are required, but also explains that they are invisible.

{{Quote|{{Quran|13|2}}|Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.}}

The authors here take it as obvious that the heavens require support of some kind. But their emphasis is on their invisibility, not their actual absence.

To further expound on the nature of the seven heavens, we need additional help from the [[hadith]]. Here we learn the distances between each heaven, as well as what is on the other side of the furthermost.

{{Quote|{{Abu Dawud|2|475}}|Narrated Al-Abbas ibn AbdulMuttalib: I was sitting in al-Batha with a company among whom the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) was sitting, when a cloud passed above them. The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) looked at it and said: What do you call this?

They said: Sahab.

He said: And muzn? They said: And muzn. He said: And anan? They said: And anan. AbuDawud said: I am not quite confident about the word anan. He asked: Do you know the distance between Heaven and Earth? They replied: We do not know. He then said: The distance between them is seventy-one, seventy-two, or seventy-three years. The heaven which is above it is at a similar distance (going on till he counted seven heavens). Above the seventh heaven there is a sea, the distance between whose surface and bottom is like that between one heaven and the next. Above that there are eight mountain goats the distance between whose hoofs and haunches is like the distance between one heaven and the next. Then Allah, the Blessed and the Exalted, is above that.}}

Ignoring the giant mountain goats which are never mentioned in the Qur'an itself, the outermost heaven lies beneath a sea that is as deep as the distances between adjacent heavens. That Allah’s “throne” is above such waters is mentioned in the Qur'an as well as the hadith.

{{Quote|{{Quran|11|7}}|He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death", the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!"}}

There are however no mentions of galaxies, quasars, galaxy clusters or empty space. Simply water, a throne, and Allah himself.

Additional details concerning the individual heavens are found in the accounts of Muhammad’s “night journey.” Rather than quoting at length, readers are referred to {{Bukhari|9|93|68}} for the long version. But here are the key points.

Each of the seven heavens is populated by multiple angels and a few other folks as well. These heavens are entered through doors in the solid domes, each with an angelic guard and each populated by a resident prophet. For example, immediately above the dome of the first heaven is where Muhammad met Adam, and discovered (in the absence of true geographic knowledge) the sources of the Tigris and Euphrates rivers. The second heaven is the home of the Prophet Idris. Aaron is in the fourth heaven, Abraham the sixth, and Moses the seventh.

===The Celestial Objects===
Inside the nearest heaven (i.e. less than 73 years away) are the stars and (apparently) also the sun and [[moon]]. We can be certain that the stars are inside this closest heaven, as the Qur'an is quite explicit on this point.

{{Quote|{{Quran|37|6}}|We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|41|12}}|So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.}}

The idea that the stars might actually be objects on the scale of the sun, but much farther away was clearly missed by the authors of the Qur'an.

===The Sun and the Moon===

The sun and moon are a bit more ambiguous, as all we know is that they are in the “midst” of the heavens, and not explicitly inside the lowest of them.

{{Quote|{{Quran|71|16}}|And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?}}

These two lights (along with the stars and planets) follow prescribed paths along the curved walls of the solid heavenly domes.

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|33}}|It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.}}
{{Quote|{{Quran|36|40}}|It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).}}

And at the end of their daily paths across the sky, the sun (and presumably also the moon and stars) pass through the earth’s flat disk near the far Western edge using openings filled with water.

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|86}}|Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."}}

Once out of view of the humans that populate the top of the earthly disc, their motion stops, and they rest for the night in particular resting places.

{{Quote|{{Quran|36|38}}|And the sun runneth on unto a resting-place for him. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Wise.}}

At some point during the night, however (and here again we call to the hadith for details) the sun must negotiate its return the next day with a direct appeal for Allah’s permission.

{{Quote|{{Bukhari|4|54|421}}|Narrated Abu Dhar:

The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west.}}

And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah:

{{Quote|{{Quran|36|38}}|And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.}}

With permission to rise received, the sun passes back through the earthly disk near its Eastern edge to commence the next day. While no “muddy pools” are specifically mentioned for the sunrise, the description of people living nearby the exit point mirrors the description of the [[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring|place where the sun set]].

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|90}}|Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.}}

===Eclipses of the Sun or Moon===

The Qur'an demonstrates no understanding whatsoever of eclipses. Perhaps this is understandable. The hadith claim that Muhammad only experienced one solar eclipse during his lifetime, an experience which frightened him into a spectacular act of piety. But the Qur'an only makes a single reference to eclipses, and that is a lunar eclipse that will take place at the end of the world.

In fact, the Qur'an actually makes a statement that would conceivably make eclipses impossible.

{{Quote|{{Quran|36|40}}|It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).}}

For a solar eclipse to occur however, the sun and the moon actually must (from the perspective of the earth) "catch up" to each other in their "orbits." But since the moon itself is not visible at that time, the authors of the Qur'an never noticed this.

But then, when discussing the end of time the Qur'an assumes that a lunar eclipse (which can only occur when the sun and moon are on opposite sides of the earth) can occur at the same time the sun and moon finally do “catch up” to each other.

{{Quote|{{cite quran|75|6|end=9|style=ref}}|He asketh: “When will be this Day of Resurrection?” But when sight is confounded And the moon is eclipsed And sun and moon are united,}}

The “uniting” of the sun and the moon not only demonstrate a singular instance when they do “catch up” with each other, but also indicate that the authors of the Qur'an believed they were comparable in size. This is of course only an illusion of comparative distance.

===Night and Day===

The fact that the authors of the Qur'an did not realize that the sun and moon actually cause eclipses (as opposed to simply experiencing them) is similar to their failure to realize that the sun actually causes day and night. In the Qur'an, night is not simply the absence of day. Night and day are each specific, tangible creations of Allah, and they engage in a form of balanced conflict independent of the celestial bodies.

{{Quote|{{Quran|3|27}}|Thou causest the night to gain on the day, and thou causest the day to gain on the night; Thou bringest the Living out of the dead, and Thou bringest the dead out of the Living; and Thou givest sustenance to whom Thou pleasest, without measure.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|3|190}}|Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day,- there are indeed Signs for men of understanding.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|13|3}}|He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider!}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|22|61}}|That is because Allah merges night into day, and He merges day into night, and verily it is Allah Who hears and sees (all things).}}

Day and night are clearly entities independent from the sun, moon or any other celestial objects. Even when considered in the same verse, night and day are independent of the sun, with no recognition that the sun causes either of them.

{{Quote|{{Quran|7|54}}|Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|14|33}}|And He hath made subject to you the sun and the moon, both diligently pursuing their courses; and the night and the day hath he (also) made subject to you.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|21|33}}|It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|31|29}}|’Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and he merges Day into Night; that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his Law), each running its course for a term appointed; and that Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do?}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|39|5}}|He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?}}

So, if the sun does not cause day and night, what is its purpose other than merely being the brighter of the two major celestial lamps?

Well, it turns out that the purpose of these objects is primarily time and calendar keeping.

{{Quote|{{Quran|6|96}}|He it is that cleaveth the day-break (from the dark): He makes the night for rest and tranquillity, and the sun and moon for the reckoning (of time): Such is the judgment and ordering of (Him), the Exalted in Power, the Omniscient.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|10|5}}|It is He Who made the sun to be a shining glory and the moon to be a light (of beauty), and measured out stages for her; that ye might know the number of years and the count (of time). Nowise did Allah create this but in truth and righteousness. (Thus) doth He explain His Signs in detail, for those who understand.}}

===The Stars, Planets and Meteors===

It is not obvious from the [[Mistranslated Verses|translations]] of the Qur'an that the authors of the Qur'an actually distinguished between stars and planets, as the same word is often translated to mean either. But as ancient peoples generally knew that planets were different from ordinary stars (they moved) it is a safe assumption that the earliest Muslims were equally aware.

But the mistaken (if understandable) belief that stars are very small nearby objects is not merely reflected in the placement of them inside the nearest dome. As with most other ancient people, the authors of the Qur'an believed that meteors literally were “falling stars.” Yet with the unmistakable flavor of Arab martial creativity, they do not fall without purpose. [[Mistranslations of Quran 67-5|Verse 67:5]] tells us they are weapons against devils and jinn.

{{Quote|{{Quran|67|5}}|And we have, (from of old), adorned the lowest heaven with Lamps, and We have made such (Lamps) (as) missiles to drive away the Evil Ones, and have prepared for them the Penalty of the Blazing Fire.}}

This appears to be part of the protective role of the heavens.

{{Quote|{{Quran|72|8}}|And (the Jinn who had listened to the Quran said): We had sought the heaven but had found it filled with strong warders and meteors.}}

===The Earth and its Denizens===

The authors of the Qur'an felt a lesser need to describe the nature of the earth than the heavens, since much of the earth’s nature was obvious to the people that lived upon it. There was simply much less to explain. But the descriptions that do exist provide us with unassailable conclusions.

First and foremost, the earth is flat. Repeatedly, the authors of the Qur'an use the same word to describe the “spreading out” of the earth that Arabs used to discuss the spreading out of a “carpet,” a usage that translators often make use of.

{{Quote|{{Quran|15|19}}|And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|20|53}}|"He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|43|10}}|(Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out, and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way);}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|50|7}}|And the earth- We have spread it out, and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)-}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|51|48}}|And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out!}}

In fact, at one point the Qur'an even emphasizes how much flatter the earth would be were it not for the mountains that disrupt the view.

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|47}}|One Day We shall remove the mountains, and thou wilt see the earth as a level stretch, and We shall gather them, all together, nor shall We leave out any one of them.}}

And in the same way one would stake down a tent or a carpet to keep it from shifting or blowing away, the mountains are described as serving [[The Quran and Mountains|this same purpose]].

{{Quote|{{Quran|16|15}}|And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves;}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|78|7}}|And the mountains as pegs?}}

Perhaps the one unclear facet of Islamic cosmology is the fact that the Qur'an mentions without explanation that there are (like the heavens), [[Science and the Seven Earths|seven earths]]:

{{Quote|{{Quran|65|12}}|Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge.}}

The seven concentric domes of the heavens are fairly straightforward. The seven different earths are a bit more difficult to picture. One hint is given by the Qur'ans mention that in the same way “things” can “come down from” or “mount up to” the heavens, there are also things that can “come forth out of” or “enter within” the earth.

{{Quote|{{Quran|57|4}}|He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do.}}

This leads to the conclusion that the seven earths are stacked one atop the other, similar to a stack of coins. This view is confirmed in the hadith:

{{Quote|1=[{{Reference archive|1=http://www.oocities.org/tirmidhihadith/page8.html|2=2014-01-07}} Al Tirmidhi 5735]|2=Narrated AbuHurayrah:

While Allah's Prophet (peace be upon him) and his companions were sitting clouds came over them and Allah's Prophet (peace be upon him) asked [...] "Do you know what is below you?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "It is the earth." He then asked, "Do you know what is under that?" On their replying that Allah and His Messenger (peace be upon him) knew best, he said, "Under it there is another Earth with a journey of five hundred years between them," and so on till he had counted seven earths with a journey of five hundred years between each pair. He then said, "By Him in Whose hand Muhammad's soul is, if you were to drop a rope to the lowest earth it would not pass out of Allah's knowledge."...}}

===Where are Paradise and Hell?===

Islamic cosmology takes a perfectly prosaic position in terms of Paradise and [[Hell]], and places them firmly within the cosmos that consists of the heavens and the earth. The description of Muhammad’s “night journey” shows each of the seven heavens already populated with the departed prophets in Paradise. This is consistent with the Qur'ans description of the size of Paradise.

{{Quote|{{Quran|3|133}}|Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous,-}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|57|21}}|Be ye foremost (in seeking) Forgiveness from your Lord, and a Garden (of Bliss), the width whereof is as the width of heaven and earth, prepared for those who believe in Allah and His messengers: that is the Grace of Allah, which He bestows on whom he pleases: and Allah is the Lord of Grace abounding.}}

If the heavens (to include the seventh and largest) are already populated with denizens of Paradise, the width of Paradise would be precisely that of heaven and earth.

And since Paradise is on the other side of the first heaven, it follows that Hell is below the surface of the first earth, filling the spaces beneath and between the seven earths. This is consistent with the descriptions of hell as being a completely enclosed place.

{{Quote|{{Quran|7|41}}|For them there is Hell, as a couch (below) and folds and folds of covering above: such is Our requital of those who do wrong.}}

{{Quote|{{Quran|9|49}}|Among them is (many) a man who says: "Grant me exemption and draw me not into trial." Have they not fallen into trial already? and indeed Hell surrounds the Unbelievers (on all sides).}}

Further, the direction of hell, when it is mentioned, is invariably “down.”''

{{Quote|{{Quran|52|13}}|That Day shall they be thrust down to the Fire of Hell, irresistibly.}}

Elsewhere, it is described as an underground dungeon.

{{Quote|{{Quran|17|8}}|It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, but if ye repeat (the crime) We shall repeat (the punishment), and We have appointed hell a dungeon for the disbelievers.}}

And in yet another reference, an observer is directed to “look down” in order to witness a denizen of hell.

{{Quote|{{cite quran|37|54|end=55|style=ref}}|(A voice) said: "Would ye like to look down?"
He looked down and saw him in the midst of the Fire.}}

And so, we have the Islamic Universe in completion.

==Conclusion==

The Qur'an is not a book of [[Islam and Science|science]]. As such, it makes no extended effort to describe the cosmos in the way a textbook might. Yet dealing as it does with universal questions of creation, purpose and fate it cannot avoid revealing its cosmological framework as it describes the workings of Allah.

In so doing, while it never comes out and says “this is the form of the universe,” a consistent and comprehensive cosmology still reveals itself. And to no surprise, this proves to be the mythical cosmos of 7th century Arabia rather than an accurate description of the real universe.

In the Qur'an, the entire universe is very small and contains simply the earth and its surrounding heavens. There are no galaxies, other solar systems, or such a thing as “outer space.”

The earth is the top-most of seven, flat discs, surrounded by the seven solid concentric domes of the heavens. The celestial objects that do exist (sun, moon, stars and planets) are quite small, very close, and they follow semi-circular paths within the innermost of the seven heavenly domes. When they are not in the sky above the earth, they are resting somewhere underneath it, except while petitioning Allah’s permission to return the following day (or night). Paradise exists between the seven heavens, and hell exists between the seven earths.

All of this is submerged in a cosmic sea, above which is the throne of Allah.

{{Core Science}}

==See Also==

{{Hub4|Cosmology|Cosmology}}
* [[Qur'an Explains the Universe]] - ''Muslim article''

{{Translation-links-english|[[Olamning Qurondagi manzarasi|Uzbek]]}}

[[Category:Qur'an]]
[[Category:Islam and Science]]
[[Category:Miracles]]
[[Category:THHuxley]]
[[ru:Коранический_взгляд_на_Вселенную]]
{{page_title|Cosmology of the Qur'an}}

WikiIslam:Sandbox/La cosmologie du Coran

2014-10-09T12:44:52Z

Einstein reason: Created page with "zz"

User talk:Einstein reason

2014-10-09T00:37:38Z

Einstein reason: /* Testimony */

==Revert==

Hi and welcome. I've reverted your edit to "Flat Earth and the Qur'an". The images already on the page do a fine job illustrating the point the article is making, while the new image covers ancient cosmology in general, not the flat earth. Besides, it's already used more appropriately elsewhere on the wiki. I've also deleted the talk page you created due to no French WikiIslam users being active at the moment. If you would like to discuss something, you should probably do it at the [[Forum]] page ''after'' reading [[WikiIslam:Message to New Users]]. I can tell you right now that we will not give the verse related to [[Dhul-Qarnayn]] any more prominence. As its placing suggests, it only supports a flat earth in an indirect manner, and has many indepth pages already covering the issue on this wiki. To give it more prominence makes little sense. It would weaken the page entirely, because it requires a tome of addition analysis (as in [[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring|two massive pages of it]]), and this would make the article lose focus. Additionally, you should not be inserting an image anywhere if you do not know how to. If it weren't for [[WikiIslam:Pending Changes Protection|Pending Changes]], the mess it created would have been visible to all who visited that page. That is why this site has [[:Category:WikiIslam|help pages]] for users to read. Thanks. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 09:03, 24 September 2014 (PDT)

Answer :

i'm sorry for the incovenience, i'm gonna read the documents.

== Testimony ==

I hope that at some point you plan to fill the page out for your testimony [http://wikiislam.net/wiki/ArabSagan_-_Former_Muslim]. Otherwise I believe we dont keep the basic details unless its atleast a paragraph. If a good testimony can be written it is of great help to other Muslims who are thinking of leaving Islam. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 16:24, 8 October 2014 (PDT)

: Done! --[[User:Einstein reason|ArabSagan]] ([[User talk:Einstein reason|talk]]) 17:37, 8 October 2014 (PDT)

Talk:Scientific Errors in the Quran

2014-10-08T21:20:28Z

Einstein reason: /* Where is allah */

Talk:Scientific Errors in the Quran

2014-10-08T21:20:07Z

Einstein reason: /* Removed errors / candidates for removal */

==[Sticky] Instructions for editing this page==
: ''Under construction''
This page is linked often from other websites and should be edited with care.

An error should be included only if it cannot be justified or explained in any way. In other words the error should be obvious. The following points should be noted:
* The error should not be attributable to a translation issue and must be valid for the verse in Arabic (when necessary, Arabic speakers should be consulted)
* The error should be shown in at least 2 translations (Shakir, Yusuf or Pickthall)
* These are the only translations that can be used
* Use the translation which is the most easy to understand.
* The error is obvious and cannot be attributed to "figure of speech". An example is "We will blow up the sky" (this is just an example and may not be a real verse). This should not be listed as an error. A counter-claim may be that they may have been talking about the sun expanding and engulfing the Earth (this will eventually happen). Errors that can be explained by apologists in this way should not be listed.
* If there is a plausible way that the verse could be interpreted that doesn't indicate an error (from an Islamic worldview where Allah exists), then it is not a demonstrable error unless evidence against the alternative explanation is given.
* The error should contradict what we know from science, history etc. rather than these facts simply causing a theological difficulty. For example, the Quran says that the moon was created for our benefit to reckon time, but we know that the moon existed long before humans. It is more of a theological difficulty why Allah would create it before it was needed.
* Weaker errors can be listed in a separate section at the bottom called "Other Quranic verses" with a note "The following are Quranic verses which may contain figures of speech but are still questionable". For this section, the verses should be listed without any section headings. The reason is that a record of such verses should still be kept but these verses should not be presented as obvious errors. These weaker verses are not as strong as others but they could still be seen as adding to the evidence against the Quran.

==Tasks Page==
See [[WikiIslam:Tasks/Scientific Errors in the Qur'an]] for tasks for this page.

==Removed errors / candidates for removal==
A record of the reasons errors were removed in case future editors unknowingly reinstate them.
==Where is allah==
It's the first contradiction and people to whom i gave the link thought the site was stupid because this first one isn't a contradiction. The quran says allah is everywhere metaphorically it means that he is on his throne but since he can see/hear/act everywhere we can say that he is everywhere. I think we should only have the clear contradictions here and there is many of them. There is no point in putting alot of contradictions that actually aren't that just takes down the credibility of the site.
===Constellations===
For my edit here [http://wikiislam.net/w/index.php?title=Scientific_Errors_in_the_Qur%27an&curid=9078&diff=107462&oldid=107458]
: Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light; [http://quranx.com/25.61]
Basically its just saying "However the stars are made, we made them and we arranged them like that", so I agree with {{user|Lightyears}} unless Saggy you have any additional stuff to say. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 15:13, 15 May 2014 (PDT)
: "We arranged them like that" is the mistake. Same as the errors pointed out above it (sun, moon and its phases are made for our timekeeping and stars created for navigation). I wrote the light years to show stars are not where they appear (it may not be needed). Hence constellations are imaginations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Saggy|contribs]]) {{#if:| |}} ([[WikiIslam:Signatures#Signing_Posts|Remember to sign your comments]]) 
::To humans stars have a certain arrangement. Yes that arrangement would change if we were looking it from another place for example the center of the galaxy buy they have an arrangement for people on Earth.
::But good job on finding that other verse for the Stars in the lower heaven. Did you find that error verse yourself or you saw it somewhere else? If you saw it yourself, are you going through the Quran systematically chapter by chapter? Thats good. What are you using to browse the Quran, what website? --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 16:34, 16 May 2014 (PDT)
:::there are not many errors to find, i have not gone chapter by chapter recently (only for details article). decoration verse was already present.
:::You didnt yet decide on constel. What I am thinking upon recently is that we look for errors dont we? Then if something is removed, it has to be absolutely correct. Think like that. Is "Allah made constellations" or "mansions" correct? Any one of the two translations can be quoted and then the other explained. Also in [http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/36/39/default.htm 36:39], Moon has mansions (though the word is manzil and not burooj). one more question , if this constelation thing is refutable, doesnt it mean all mythology is true or zodiacs are true? I read this q somewhere. Then Why Islam rejects zodiacs as far as I know? This verse must soon go somewhere: here or the lack of details page or the questions to ask a muslim page. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 07:30, 17 May 2014 (PDT)
::::So what website do you use for looking at the Quran? Islam awakened?
:::: "we made constellations" = we arranged the stars like that. If it can be explained its not good to have it on the page. I dont know what the connection is for zodiacs. The verse is only talking about the stars arrangement, not zodiacs. I dont know what Islam says about zodiacs.
::::The moon verse [http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/36/39/default.htm] is just talking about the appearance of the moon. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 08:50, 17 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::Some stray translation includes zodiacs. "we arranged the stars" - as i said before, it cannot be explained. In 36:39 what i wanted to show is that moon has mansions. So its another case of faulty cosmology, same is with constellations being called mansions.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 03:38, 18 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::''"The error should not be attributable to a translation issue"''
::::::We cannot have the approach that we have to find the translation that includes the 'error' we want to point out. Looking at the all the translations as a whole its clear its talking about the arrangement of the stars, nothing more. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 04:52, 18 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::Can you do one thing - just add the Scientific Quran errors to your Sandbox page for now: [[User:Saggy/Sandbox_-_Issues_with_Quran_and_Hadith]]. These can be reviewed and added to the main article in the end when you're done. Its more mental work to review them one at a time. It will also be easier for you as you can do what you like in your Sandbox without feeling restricted. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 20:09, 18 May 2014 (PDT)
::::::::I see what Saggy means - what Saggy added when putting constellations back (and was originally missing) was that because stars are varying distances and a long way away, we are looking back in time when we see them - and a different amount of time for each star. So if a constellation consists of a star 50 light years away and another 1000 light years away, then their relative positions that we see today when their ancient light reaches our eyes does not reflect their actual relative positions. It's a clever and interesting point, but there are a couple of reasons why Muslims would still be very unmoved by the claim that there is an error here. Firstly, the stars that we can see in the constellations are all fairly close - a few hundred to about a thousand light years away. So what we see isn't significantly different to how they are ([http://news.discovery.com/space/history-of-space/changing-constellations-50000-years.htm this] indicates how much they move in 50000 years, but we're talking about hundreds). The other thing is that any Muslim who believes that Allah designed the constellations will have no trouble believing that he took the light travel time into account and was only concerned with how they look from earth.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 09:13, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::Your claims mean this: a Muslim must agree constellations have been made for us? Since constellations hardly change for hundred or thousand years and the age of those stars is certainly millions to billions of years, he must agree that Allah planted those stars with their perceived design on earth so long ago? We humans got separated from the chimps only some 1 or 2 million years ago? (for whoever is stuborn on Adam: he is dated as even more recent than evolution.) We started using those constellations for guidance or fun much later? All of this was planned for "us" billions of years ago? [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 10:57, 23 May 2014 (PDT)

::::::::::Exactly that. They would say the same for the position of the continents today or any number of things. Clearly Muslims have no problem with multi-million or billion year processes being set in motion with today's world as the end result in mind. Otherwise endless things about the world today would seem a problem for them. What originally triggered me to question the quality of this entry was when I saw a Muslim saying they laughed when they saw this one. It shouldn't be easy for anyone to pick what they see as a weak example to dismiss the whole page.[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 11:16, 23 May 2014 (PDT)

:::::::::No, we are not Allah's reality TV. Such things were not pre-planned and anybody who still believes in the contrary is either ignorant or he's straight on the way to his 72 virgins which are obviously planned according to him :):):). Your approach is that somebody will cry out he has refuted an error and then we will have to cleanup. What about him digesting a hundred absurdities when trying to refute one? It always happens on answeringchristianity.org and all blogs where errors are discussed. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:19, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::Oh you replied. So let me add, some people even try to refute the sun takes permission froh Allah to rise hadith. We cant have a standard for who will believe in nonsense and to what extent and how we will cater him, but we must not lose content thereby. Btw, what did that guy think about the rest of the article? How come he rejected everything? Doesnt that show how ignorant he is?[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:25, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::::What i always have in mind and i suggested before is keeping the claim and gradually giving it a main article (then we dont have to worry whether it looks strong or weak claim at first sight). Look at the massive 2-part article on sun sets in muddy spring. I dont think anybody still wants to rescue that poor verse, does he? That must be the eventual aim.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 11:37, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::::You're right, some Muslims will laugh at any error claim so I take that back, though he thought this particularly bad. Re your previous point, yes it is absurd (as theology generally is), but it doesn't belong on the scientific errors page since it is a question of theology, how Allah behaves. It's not a statement about the world that can be proven false. No-one could prove scientifically that Allah wouldn't set things in motion at an early stage with today in mind. If there was something in the verse suggesting a time scale that would be potential for a scientific error. Rather, the verse implies a theological absurdity (given that we know the stars have been moving a long time), and one that would apply to all sorts of things like continental drift, not just consellations. It is good content as a theological point, so maybe there is / someone will make a page on this subject. Anyway, maybe we'll just have to disagree on this one. It's for someone else to decide whether the entry is put back on the scientific errors page or not. And the 2 part sun muddy spring article is mine (copied across by someone who runs this site from the quranspotlight blog I used to maintain) - I'm glad you like it :) [[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 11:54, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::::::How Allah behaves will easily go into the new article whose scope is not limited to errors.[[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 13:08, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
:::::::::hi Lightyears, I agree with you when you say: ''"but there are a couple of reasons why Muslims would still be very unmoved by the claim that there is an error here''".
:::::::::This is the problem with some of Saggy's additions to this page. Some of the additions can be justified and it creates a problem for whoever links this page. Sometimes he has problems understanding what a verse or hadith is saying ([http://wikiislam.net/wiki/WikiIslam:Forum#Womb_sentence another example] where there was no issue but he thought there was).
:::::::::The word "constellation" is a translation issue. Some translations use "big stars". The Quran is just saying "See how we arranged the stars" - which is what it looks like to humans. So I think it includes the meaning 'constellation' but is not limited to it (''"The word "burooj" in the first verse is translated to constellations, stars, and Zodiacal signs."'' [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Burooj])
:::::::::Here is something that you said and I agree with it 100% but Saggy refuses to understand this and keeps adding "non errors" or weak errors (at one point he said ''"there is no such thing as a weak error"'', not true) to this page and weakening it:
::::::::::''What originally triggered me to question the quality of this entry was when I saw a Muslim saying they laughed when they saw this one. '''It shouldn't be easy for anyone to pick what they see as a weak example to dismiss the whole page'''.''
:::::::::(bold is mine) I myself have seen another location where Saggy's addition was being mocked and things like that concern me greatly. One bad addition can lead to someone mocking the whole website. The fact that this Scientific errors page is one of the top 10 most visited pages on the site, makes the issue even more critical and it is therefore even more important for this page to be of high quality. I have discussed various issues like this with him and finally I have asked him not to add any verses to this page until the review template is gone. I have told him to do what he wants in his own Sandbox page where he has more freedom to do what he wants.
:::::::::Some of his additions may be issues of some kind but could be displayed on another page in another manner. At this point I'm not sure how that could be done but for now we can try to keep the Scientific errors page as strong as possible. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 16:25, 23 May 2014 (PDT)
::::::::::Hi Axius, I very much agree. Any new errors need to be very strong, having carefully considered counter arguments and where necessary how the key words are used in lexicons, other verses. Most people won't read the whole of an already long list of errors (not that lots of errors isn't a good thing in one sense!), so that's another reason to keep weak ones out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by [[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Lightyears|contribs]]) {{#if:| |}} ([[WikiIslam:Signatures#Signing_Posts|Remember to sign your comments]]) 
:::::::::::Thanks I agree. Its good to have a short strong page rather than a long weak/mediocre page.
:::::::::::Saggy, please also note what Lightyears said, in particular: ''"Any new errors need to be very strong, '''having carefully considered counter arguments'''"''. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 17:22, 23 May 2014 (PDT)

===Only Allah Knows the Gender of a Fetus (31:34)===
I removed this since it doesn't say "alone" in the Arabic (though it is generally assumed). After it says he knows what is in the wombs it says "and not" rather than "nor". It also doesn't specify anything about gender. Hadiths suggest that it refers to a bunch of things ("his life span, his deeds, and whether he will be among the wretched or the blessed").
Shakir's translation is most accurate here: "Surely Allah is He with Whom is the knowledge of the hour, and He sends down the rain and He knows what is in the wombs; and no one knows what he shall earn on the morrow; and no one knows in what land he shall die; surely Allah is Knowing, Aware."[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 05:58, 27 May 2014 (PDT)

===Earth fixed in place===
I removed the stuff on this from the geocentrism entry a few days ago since it's unclear from the Arabic (irrelevant that we know that the author of the Qur'an was a 7th century bedoin who almost certainly had such a view). It's still there using a different verse under the section The Earth does not rotate.

40:64 was already commented out (they probably saw that it only says fixed place in one translation). The Arabic word basically means a stable abode http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume7/00000029.pdf. The question is whether qararan here means a settled thing / place, or a place for settling (by humans). The womb is elsewhere described with this word (fee qararin - in a resting place), but a pregnant woman moves around, though the fetus is settled there. Also 27:61 uses the same word while talking about mountains, rivers, so it is perhaps saying that it's a good place for us to settle (rather than that the earth is settled). See also 2:36 where Satan is sent down and given in Earth a dwelling/place of settlement (using the same word as a participle). I'll leave it to an Arabic expert to decide what to do. The stuff about Allah casting down mountains "lest it (the earth) shake with you" could be useful.

As for 35:41, the word deviate in the quoted translation (cease, be removed etc in others) is زول which means (Lane Lexicon) to go away, depart, remove, shift, make remote, absense, cease to be. Most translations use these other meanings. I don't think we can say Earth's orbit/spin meets this definition. The word translated grasp/hold مسك means (Lane's Lexicon) retain, withold, maintain, hold fast, grasp, restrain, confine. Just as these definitions could be used to read an error here, the verse can plausibly be interpreted to mean (if you believe in Allah) that he confines the heavens and earth lest they veer off their unmentioned orbits.

Perhaps it could be eventually added under the other errors section. I think it's enough that there is no mention of the orbit or spin of the Earth which gives rise to day & night, seasons (so very important to humans), given that it does mentions the orbits of the moon and sun (the latter having no relevence to humans if it meant around the galaxy).--[[User:Lightyears|Lightyears]] ([[User talk:Lightyears|talk]]) 09:19, 27 May 2014 (PDT)
:Thanks for analyzing this. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 17:10, 27 May 2014 (PDT)

User:Einstein reason

2014-10-08T15:51:04Z

Einstein reason:

Ex muslim and agnostic from Morocco. Studying in France. Speaking Classical arabic, french and english.

User:Einstein reason

2014-10-08T15:50:43Z

Einstein reason: Created page with "Ex muslim from Morocco. Studying in France. Speaking Classical arabic, french and english."

Ex muslim from Morocco. Studying in France. Speaking Classical arabic, french and english.

Talk:Main Page

2014-10-08T00:13:35Z

Einstein reason: /* Add content to the Main page */

'''''This page is intended for use only to discuss issues directly related to the WikiIslam main page. Please use the [[WikiIslam:Forum|forum]] for discussions.'''''



== News ==

Islam in the news hasn't been updated for a couple of months. Would you like me to make some suggestions? —The preceding [[WikiIslam:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:LawrenceGilmore|LawrenceGilmore]] ([[User talk:LawrenceGilmore|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/LawrenceGilmore|contribs]]) {{#if:13:23, 21 February 2014| on 13:23, 21 February 2014|}} 

: Hi Lawrence. Yeah, it hasn't been updated in a while. Another admin (Al-Qaum) is usually in charge of that section but has taken a break. He's told me that he'll be back very soon and will update it fully. But what ideas do you have? [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 15:45, 21 February 2014 (PST)
:: I think we should remove the news section until its updated again because its all from December and its not making the main page look good. We can remove the section, switch to auto somehow or update it manually. Another easy option: Just use links and dont put the text of the news website in. Any of these are better than having old news. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 16:18, 21 February 2014 (PST)
:::Okay, I'll update it weekly with a few news stories until Al returns. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 16:43, 21 February 2014 (PST)
::::Alright sounds good. I hope you just add external links because its easy. I really dont think there's a lot to gain if the extract/text archiving is done too but I think you said that it keeps the visitor on the site (they can always press 'back'). Its up to you. I wanted to find a feature that allows us to open links in a new window if we ask it to but I couldn't find it. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 16:47, 21 February 2014 (PST)
There are several benefits gained from the format we are currently using (in addition to keeping visitors on the site):

#It's like our very own news site/blog (like how Wikipedia's news section links to WikiNews).
#We want WikiIslam to be an all-in-one resource. This helps us achieve that. When it was updated regularly, many readers commented positively on it, mentioning how WikiIslam is the only site they need.
#When Al adds news about LGBT issues, converts, apostates, statistics etc., he usually adds it to our relevant articles ("Persecution of...", "Converts to Islam" etc.). If he was no longer quoting these news pages, then those other pages would never be updated. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 17:48, 21 February 2014 (PST)
::Well yea it does have its benefits - good points. Its just a lot to keep up with on a regular basis. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 18:08, 21 February 2014 (PST)

== "Did you know" portal ==
How about a "did you know" portal? Then along with new articles, lets put recently improved articles. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 12:30, 3 April 2014 (PDT)
:"Did you know" is a good idea but there's a similar pictorial Islam section at the bottom. I know Main page could be improved but we just dont have enough people at this time to do all the [[tasks|stuff]] that needs to be done. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 15:30, 3 April 2014 (PDT)
::As Axius noted, we already have a section on the front page that generates random interesting articles. If we did have such a section, what would be in it? Things like "Did you know... Muhammad Married and had intercourse with a nine-year-old" would look a lot less professional than simply having it the way we have it know (i.e. a heading, "Muhammad and Aisha", followed by a description). Then there is the issue of maintenance. There is no point in adding to our already long to-do list with things that require a lot of work and/or need constant updating. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 00:36, 4 April 2014 (PDT)

== Adding content to the Main page ==

I have a suggestion. I have found many interesting articles that i cannot see on the main page, and therefore we cannot fastly reach them.
Examples:
~The article about Scientific errors and contradictions in the quran and the hadith.
An article about the miraculous nature of Vigils georgias
--[[User:Einstein reason|Einstein reason]] ([[User talk:Einstein reason|talk]]) 17:13, 7 October 2014 (PDT)

Talk:Main Page

2014-10-08T00:13:17Z

Einstein reason: /* Add content to the Main page */ new section

'''''This page is intended for use only to discuss issues directly related to the WikiIslam main page. Please use the [[WikiIslam:Forum|forum]] for discussions.'''''



== News ==

Islam in the news hasn't been updated for a couple of months. Would you like me to make some suggestions? —The preceding [[WikiIslam:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:LawrenceGilmore|LawrenceGilmore]] ([[User talk:LawrenceGilmore|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/LawrenceGilmore|contribs]]) {{#if:13:23, 21 February 2014| on 13:23, 21 February 2014|}} 

: Hi Lawrence. Yeah, it hasn't been updated in a while. Another admin (Al-Qaum) is usually in charge of that section but has taken a break. He's told me that he'll be back very soon and will update it fully. But what ideas do you have? [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 15:45, 21 February 2014 (PST)
:: I think we should remove the news section until its updated again because its all from December and its not making the main page look good. We can remove the section, switch to auto somehow or update it manually. Another easy option: Just use links and dont put the text of the news website in. Any of these are better than having old news. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 16:18, 21 February 2014 (PST)
:::Okay, I'll update it weekly with a few news stories until Al returns. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 16:43, 21 February 2014 (PST)
::::Alright sounds good. I hope you just add external links because its easy. I really dont think there's a lot to gain if the extract/text archiving is done too but I think you said that it keeps the visitor on the site (they can always press 'back'). Its up to you. I wanted to find a feature that allows us to open links in a new window if we ask it to but I couldn't find it. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 16:47, 21 February 2014 (PST)
There are several benefits gained from the format we are currently using (in addition to keeping visitors on the site):

#It's like our very own news site/blog (like how Wikipedia's news section links to WikiNews).
#We want WikiIslam to be an all-in-one resource. This helps us achieve that. When it was updated regularly, many readers commented positively on it, mentioning how WikiIslam is the only site they need.
#When Al adds news about LGBT issues, converts, apostates, statistics etc., he usually adds it to our relevant articles ("Persecution of...", "Converts to Islam" etc.). If he was no longer quoting these news pages, then those other pages would never be updated. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 17:48, 21 February 2014 (PST)
::Well yea it does have its benefits - good points. Its just a lot to keep up with on a regular basis. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User talk:Axius|talk]]) 18:08, 21 February 2014 (PST)

== "Did you know" portal ==
How about a "did you know" portal? Then along with new articles, lets put recently improved articles. [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 12:30, 3 April 2014 (PDT)
:"Did you know" is a good idea but there's a similar pictorial Islam section at the bottom. I know Main page could be improved but we just dont have enough people at this time to do all the [[tasks|stuff]] that needs to be done. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] ([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]]) 15:30, 3 April 2014 (PDT)
::As Axius noted, we already have a section on the front page that generates random interesting articles. If we did have such a section, what would be in it? Things like "Did you know... Muhammad Married and had intercourse with a nine-year-old" would look a lot less professional than simply having it the way we have it know (i.e. a heading, "Muhammad and Aisha", followed by a description). Then there is the issue of maintenance. There is no point in adding to our already long to-do list with things that require a lot of work and/or need constant updating. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 00:36, 4 April 2014 (PDT)

== Add content to the Main page ==

I have a suggestion. I have found many interesting articles that i cannot see on the main page, and therefore we cannot fastly reach them.
Examples:
~The article about Scientific errors and contradictions in the quran and the hadith.
An article about the miraculous nature of Vigils georgias
--[[User:Einstein reason|Einstein reason]] ([[User talk:Einstein reason|talk]]) 17:13, 7 October 2014 (PDT)

User talk:Einstein reason

2014-09-24T21:26:44Z

Einstein reason: /* Revert */

Islamic Views on the Shape of the Earth

2014-09-24T11:39:06Z

Einstein reason: i don't know how to add a picture, do it if you fond its better. and we also should the dhu al quarnayn verses in front that was wht shocked me at first when i was muslim.

http://www.unchangingword.com/graphics/Ancient%20Cosmology2.jpg

[[File:Flat Earth The Wonders of Creation.jpg|right|thumb|175px|Taken from Zekeriya Kazvinî's "Acaib-ül Mahlûkat" (The Wonders of Creation). Translated into Turkish from Arabic. Istanbul: ca. 1553. This map depicts "a traditional Islamic projection of the world as a flat disk surrounded by the sundering seas which are restrained by the encircling mountains of Qaf".<ref>[http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/world/earth.html Views of the Earth] - World Treasures of the Library of Congress, July 29, 2010</ref> ]]
This article takes a closer look at some of the [[Qur'an|Qur'anic]] verses that imply its author assumed the earth is flat.
== Introduction ==

The fact that the earth is not flat has been known for thousands of years. The Ancient [[Greece|Greeks]] Pythagoras (570 - 495 BC), Aristotle (384 - 322 BC) and Hipparchus (190 - 120 BC) all knew this. The [[India|Indian]] astronomer and mathematician, Aryabhata (476 - 550 AD) knew this. And so did the early Christian scholars Anicius Boëthius (480 - 524 AD), Bishop Isidore of Seville (560 - 636 AD), Bishop Rabanus Maurus (780 - 856 AD), the monk Bede (672 - 735 AD), Bishop Vergilius of Salzburg (700 - 784 AD) and Thomas Aquinas (1225 - 1274 AD). In fact, contrary to what we are often told, the sphericity of the earth was common knowledge among early medieval [[Europe|Europeans]]<ref>{{cite web|url= http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth&oldid=556807448|title= Myth of the Flat Earth|publisher= Wikipedia|author= |date= accessed June 12, 2013|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FMyth_of_the_Flat_Earth&date=2013-06-12|deadurl=no}}</ref> and the Holy Roman Empire from as early as 395 AD used an orb to represent the spherical Earth.<ref>[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Globus_cruciger&oldid=312872920 Globus cruciger] - Wikipedia, accessed September 9, 2009</ref>

If the [[Qur'an]] is a letter-by-letter dictation from [[Allah]], it should also concur with this fact that was known throughout the world ''before'' its [[revelation]], and it should contradict the flat earth model widely believed in by the 7th century Bedouins of Arabia.

== Analysis==
=== Qur'an 15:19 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|15|19}}|''' والارض مددناها''' والقينا فيها رواسي وانبتنا فيها من كل شئ موزون'''

Waal-arda madadnahawaalqayna feeha rawasiya waanbatnafeeha min kulli shay-in mawzoonin

'''And the earth We have spread out''' (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance. }}
مَدَدْ = madad = protract , reach , elongate , extend , draw out , lengthen, stretch out , spread out , sprawl , dilate , reach , range , unwind , outstretch , pervade.

=== Qur'an 20:53 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|20|53}}| '''الذي جعل لكم الارض مهدا''' وسلك لكم فيها سبلا وانزل من السماء ماء فاخرجنا به ازواجا من نبات شتى

Allathee jaAAala lakumu al-ardamahdan wasalaka lakum feeha subulan waanzala mina alssama-imaan faakhrajna bihi azwajan min nabatinshatta

'''He Who has, made for you the earth like a carpet spread out'''; has enabled you to go about therein by roads (and channels); and has sent down water from the sky." With it have We produced diverse pairs of plants each separate from the others. }}
مَهْدًا = mahdan = (Noun) cradle or bed, (verb) flatten, smoothen, smooth, level, cement, grade, ram, plane, roll, flat, level off.

=== Qur'an 43:10 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|43|10}}| '''الذي جعل لكم الارض مهدا''' وجعل لكم فيها سبلا لعلكم تهتدون

Allathee jaAAala lakumu al-ardamahdan wajaAAala lakum feeha subulan laAAallakum tahtadoona

'''(Yea, the same that) has made for you the earth (like a carpet) spread out''', and has made for you roads (and channels) therein, in order that ye may find guidance (on the way);}}
مَهْدًا = mahdan = (Noun) cradle.or bed, (verb) flatten , smoothen , smooth , level , cement , grade , ram , plane , roll , flat , level off

=== Qur'an 50:7 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|50|7}}| '''والارض مددناها''' والقينا فيها رواسي وانبتنا فيها من كل زوج بهيج

Waal-arda madadnahawaalqayna feeha rawasiya waanbatnafeeha min kulli zawjin baheejin

'''And the earth- We have spread it out''', and set thereon mountains standing firm, and produced therein every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs)- }}
مَدَدْ = madad = protract , reach , elongate , extend , draw out , lengthen, stretch out , spread out , sprawl , dilate , reach , range , unwind , outstretch , pervade , lengthen

=== Qur'an 51:48 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|51|48}}| والارض فرشناها فنعم الماهدون

Waal-arda farashnahafaniAAma almahidoona

And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out! }}
فَرَشَْ = farasha = provide with furniture , flatten , outspread , pervade , circulate , cement , grade , unwind , stretch , expand , flat , range , reach , ram , spread out , lengthen , sprawl , unfold , level off , roll out , level

الْمَهِدُونَ from مَهِدُ = flatten , smoothen , smooth , level , cement , grade , ram , plane , roll , flat , level off

=== Qur'an 71:19 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|71|19}}| والله جعل لكم الارض بساطا

WaAllahu jaAAala lakumu al-ardabisatan

And Allah has made the earth for you as a carpet (spread out), }}
بِسَاطًا = bisaatan = drugget , carpet , rug
from the verb بسط = outspread , flatten , flat , even , ram , grade , level off , outstretch , pave , level , smoothen , roll , cement

=== Qur'an 78:6 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|78|6}}| الم نجعل الارض مهادا

Alam najAAali al-arda mihadan

Have We not made the earth as a wide expanse,}}
مهاد = flat land , flat , plain , ramming

=== Qur'an 79:30 ===
Many Islamist apologists attempt to deflect criticism that the Qur'an promotes the mistaken belief of a flat earth by the word dahaha used in Qur'an 79:30, commonly translated as ‘spread’ or ‘stretched’.
{{Quote|{{Quran|79|30}}| '''Arabic:''' والارض بعد ذلك دحاها

'''Transliteration:''' ''Waal-arda baAAda thalika dahaha''
'''Literal:''' And the earth/Planet Earth after that He blew and stretched/spread it. <ref name="ia-79-30">[http://islamawakened.org/Quran/3/default.htm#003_054 Islam Awakened - Quran 79:30]</ref> }}
==== Qur'an Translations ====
{{quote ||
'''Yusuf Ali:''' And the earth, moreover, hath He extended (to a wide expanse); <ref name="ia-79-30"/> }}
{{quote ||
'''Pickthal:''' And after that He spread the earth, <ref name="ia-79-30"/> }}
{{quote ||
'''Arberry:''' and the earth-after that He spread it out, <ref name="ia-79-30"/> }}
{{quote ||
'''Shakir:''' And the earth, He expanded it after that. <ref name="ia-79-30"/> }}
{{quote ||
'''Sarwar:''' After this, He spread out the earth, <ref name="ia-79-30"/> }}
{{quote ||
'''Hilali/Khan:''' And after that He spread the earth; <ref name="ia-79-30"/> }}
{{quote ||
'''Malik:''' After that He spread out the earth, <ref name="ia-79-30"/> }}
{{quote ||
'''Maulana Ali:''' And the earth, He cast it after that. <ref name="ia-79-30"/> }}
{{quote ||
'''Free Minds:''' And the land after that He spread out. <ref name="ia-79-30"/> }}

Some translations have attempted to translate the word dahaha to mean made egg-shaped or like an ‘ostrich egg’.
{{quote ||
'''Khalifa:''' He made the earth egg-shaped. <ref name="ia-79-30"/> }}
{{quote ||
'''QXP:''' And after that He made the earth shoot out from the Cosmic Nebula and made it spread out egg-shaped. ('Dahaha' entails all the meanings rendered (21:30), (41:11)). <ref name="ia-79-30"/> }}
====Apologetic Claims====
{{quote || Anyway, to answer your question about why did Allah Almighty use the word "dahaha" in Noble Verse 79:30, well it's because the word is the most precise out of all. It describes the roundness and the flatness of the earth at once. <ref>[http://web.archive.org/web/20071227021224/http://www.answering-christianity.com/earth_in_islam.htm Answering Christianity on dahaha]</ref>}}
Some will also claim that the root word for dahaha is duhiya which means ostrich egg.
{{quote || 4. Earth is geo-spherical in shape

The Qur’an mentions the actual shape of the earth in the following verse:

“And we have made the earth egg shaped”. [Al-Qur’an 79:30]

The Arabic word Dahaha means egg shaped. It also means an expanse. Dahaha is derived from Duhiya which specifically refers to the egg of an ostrich which is geospherical in shape, exactly like the shape of the earth.

Thus the Qur’an and modern established science are in perfect harmony.<ref>[http://www.islamicvoice.com/February2006/QuestionHour-DrZakirNaik/?PHPSESSID=c30907389ab7486d8886b1a992e9ae1a Q & A - Zakir Naik - dahaha]</ref>}}

Nevertheless, many Muslims still cling to the belief that dahaha means an ostrich egg, despite the scientific difficulty this presents in that the earth is an oblate spheroid while the ostrich egg is a prolate spheroid. Thus the earth and the ostrich egg are dissimilar in three dimensions.

A further apologetic is to point to a game played by Meccans in their attempt to link dahaha with roundness.

{{quote || In 79:30, Allah says,

[Transliteration] Waal-arda baAAda thalika dahaha [79:30]

The key word in the above verse is “dahaha”. In Arabic, there is a phrase, “iza dahaha” which means “when he throws the stones over the ground to the hole”. The hole is called “Udhiyatun”. “Almadahi” signify round stones according to the size of which a hole is dug in the ground in which the stones are thrown in a game. “Almadahi” also signify a round thing made of lead by the throwing of which persons contend together. So there is a signification of ROUNDNESS in the root of the word “dahaha”. According to some etymologists, the word for the “egg of an ostrich” also has the same root as “dahaha”. They also take from this that the earth is of the shape of the egg of an ostrich. Latest science findings confirm that the earth is not exactly spherical but the earth is an ellipsoid, i.e. flattened by its poles,[ just like the shape of an egg of an ostrich].

The Arabic words for “flat” or “level” or “straight shaped” are “sawi” and “almustavi”. There is not a single place in Quran where there is any indication of the earth being “flat” or “straight shaped”. The word “faraash” in 2:22, 51:48; the word “wasia” in 4:97, 29:56, 30:10; the word “mahd” in 20:53, 43:10, 78:6; the word “basaat” in 71:19; the word “suttihat” in 88:20; and the word “tahaaha” in 91:6, all may mean, “to spread”, “to expand” or “to extend” with slight differences in their connotations but none signify the earth being straight-shaped or flat.<ref>[http://www.quranicteachings.co.uk/earth-shape.htm QuranTeachings.co.uk - 79:30]</ref>}}
The contention that almadahi and udhiyatun conveys the concept of roundness which they link to the root of dahaha is false for the reason that the 'roundness' of the almadahi and udhiyatun is only in two dimensions. The almadahi is round like a piece of Arab bread (i.e. shaped like a disc) and the udhiyatun is also round in two dimensions. Nevertheless, one of the meanings of dahaha is to 'throw' and that is the derivation of the words 'almadahi and udhiyatun'.

==== Daha and Duhiya ====
In Arabic, each word must be derived from its root. The root usually consists of three letters that can be manipulated, by adding vowels, prefixes and suffixes in order to produce different words with different meanings. For example, "ka-ta-ba" (to write) is the root for many words such as kitab (book), maktaba (library), katib (author), maktoob (written), kitabat (writings) et cetera.

Let's now take the word mentioned to mean egg of an ostrich, "Duhiya". This word is ''not'' a root. It is a noun and is derived from "da-ha-wa", the same root that the verb "dahaha" comes from. Furthermore, Duhiya does not even mean the egg of an ostrich. This is what the most respected dictionaries have to say on this subject:

===== Lisan Al Arab =====
{{quote || الأُدْحِيُّ و الإدْحِيُّ و الأُدْحِيَّة و الإدْحِيَّة و الأُدْحُوّة مَبِيض النعام في الرمل , وزنه أُفْعُول من ذلك , لأَن النعامة تَدْحُوه برِجْلها ثم تَبِيض فيه وليس للنعام عُشٌّ . و مَدْحَى النعام : موضع بيضها , و أُدْحِيُّها موضعها الذي تُفَرِّخ فيه .ِ}}
Translation: Al-udhy, Al-idhy, Al-udhiyya, Al-idhiyya, Al-udhuwwa:The place in sand where an ostrich lays its egg. That's because the ostrich spreads out the earth with its feet then lays its eggs there, an ostrich doesn't have a nest.

{{quote || الدَّحْوُ البَسْطُ . دَحَا الأَرضَ يَدْحُوها دَحْواً بَسَطَها . وقال الفراء في قوله والأَرض بعد ذلك دَحاها قال : بَسَطَها ; قال شمر : وأَنشدتني أَعرابية : الحمدُ لله الذي أَطاقَا

بَنَى السماءَ فَوْقَنا طِباقَا

ثم دَحا الأَرضَ فما أَضاقا

قال شمر : وفسرته فقالت دَحَا الأَرضَ أَوْسَعَها ; وأَنشد ابن بري لزيد بن عمرو بن نُفَيْل : دَحَاها , فلما رآها اسْتَوَتْ

على الماء , أَرْسَى عليها الجِبالا

و دَحَيْتُ الشيءَ أَدْحاهُ دَحْياً بَسَطْته , لغة في دَحَوْتُه ; حكاها اللحياني . وفي حديث عليّ وصلاتهِ , اللهم دَاحِيَ المَدْحُوَّاتِ يعني باسِطَ الأَرَضِينَ ومُوَسِّعَها , ويروى ; دَاحِيَ المَدْحِيَّاتِ . و الدَّحْوُ البَسْطُ . يقال : دَحَا يَدْحُو و يَدْحَى أَي بَسَطَ ووسع }}
Translation: To daha the earth: means to spread it out.
Then it mentions a couple of Arabic poems that confirm this meaning. Anyone who can read Arabic will find this to be the definitive proof that Daha means to spread out.

===== Al Qamoos Al Muheet =====
{{quote || (دَحَا): الله الأرضَ
(يَدْحُوهَا وَيَدْحَاهَا دَحْواً) بَسَطَها}}
Translation: Allah daha the Earth: He spread it out.

===== Al Waseet =====
{{quote || دَحَا الشيءَ: بسطه ووسعه. يقال: دحا اللهُ الأَرض }}
Translation: To daha something: means to spread it out. For example: Allah daha the Earth.

===== Lane's Lexicon =====
{{quote ||2= Dhaheelath see dahl, near the end of the paragraph. dhahhal One who hunts, or catches game, by making use of the dhahool so in the verse cited voce dhahool l. (TA.) Dhahil Very rancorous, malevolent, malicious, or spiteful; wont to hide enmity, and violent haired, in his heart, and to watch for opportunities to indulge it, or exercise it. (Az, TA.)

Dhahool (an arabicized word from the Pers. Dhakhool) A thing which the hunter of gazelles sets up (for the purpose of scaring them into his toil or into the neighbourhood of his place of concealment), consisting of pieces of wood: (S : ) or a thing which the hunter sets up for (the purpose of scaring) the (wild) asses, (K, TA,) and As adds, and the gazelles, (TA,) consisting of pieces of wood like short scars (K,* TA) stuck in the ground, with some pieces of ragged cloth upon their heads; and sometimes set up at night, for (the purpose of searing) the gazelle, with the addition of a lighted lamp; (TA; ) (whence) Dhu-r-Rummeh says,
Wa Yashrabna Ajnan Wannujoomu Ka’annaha
Masabeeh dahhalin Yuzakkee Zubalaha

(And they drink water that is altered for the worse in taste and colour, while the stars are like the lamps of the hunter by means of the Dahool when he make. their wicks to blaze brightly): (TA : ) the pl. is dawaheel (K.)

Dahw

1. Daha (., MM_b;,, 1,) first pers. Dahouth aor, yad'hoo inf. N. dahoo He spread; spread out, or forth; expanded; or extended; (S, Msb, K; ) a thing; (K; ) and, when said of God, the earth; (Fr, S, Mb, 1V; ) As also daha first pers. dahaithu (K in art. daha) aor. yaad’heae inf. n. dahae: (Msb, and K in art. dahae : ) or He (God) made the earth wide, or ample; as explained by an Arab woman of the desert to Sh: (TA : ) also, said of an ostrich, (S, TA,) he expanded, and made wide, (TA,) with his foot, or leg, the place where he was about to deposit his eggs: (S, TA : ) and, said of a man, he spread, &c., and made plain, even, or smooth. (TA in art. dhaha ) - Also, said of a man, (K,,) aor. yad’hoo, inf. n. dahwu(TA,) i.q. Jamie as also daja; on the authority of 1Abr. (TA.) (You say, dhahaha He compressed her; like as you say, dhajaha.) _ Also He threw, or cast, and impelled, propelled, oi removed from its place, a stone, with his hand (TA.) One says also, to him who is playing with walnuts, abidil maddha va adhhuhu, meaning (Make thou the distance far, and) throw it. (S,TA.: See also midh’hath, in two places. And of a torrent one says, dhaha bilbat’hai It cast along (the soft earth and pebbles in its course; or drove then along). (TA.) And of rain, one says, dhaha Al hissa an waj’hil Ardhi (S,Msb) It drove the pebbles from the surface of the earth; (Msb; ) or removed them. (TA.) (See also dhaha, in the next art.) And aldhahwu bilhijarathi also signifies The vying, one with another, in throwing stones, and striving to surpass (in doing so); as also al Midahath (inf. n- of dahee). (TA marra yad’hoo inf.n. dahow said of a horse, He went along throwing out his fore legs without raising his hoofs much from the ground. (S,TA.) = dhahal bathan The belly was, or became, large, and hanging down; (Kr, K; ) and Indhahee (the belly) was, or became, wide, or distended: (MF : ) or both signify it (the belly) became swollen, or inflated, or big,. and hung down, by reason of fatness or disease; as also Dhau and Indah (TA in art dooh.)
3. Dhahee inf.n. Mudahath: see 1.
5. Thud'hee He spread out, or extended, himself; syn. Thabassuth. (K: in art. Daha.) You say, nama fulan fathadhahha Such a one slept, and (extended himself so that he) lay upon a vide space of ground (TA in that art.) - And thadhahhathil ibilu fil ardhi The camels made hollows in the ground where they lay down, it being soft; leaving therein cavities like those of bellies: thus they do only when they are fat. (El-'Itreefee, TA in art. Daha. )
7. see 1, last sentence.
9. id'havi (of the measure if’alath for if’alle like Ar’awa) It (a thing, TA) was, or became, spread, spread out or forth, expanded, or extended. (K.)

Dhahin (act. part n. of 1). Allahumma dhahil Mad’huwwath in a prayer of ‘Alee, means O God, the Spreader and Expander of the (seven) earths: (TA : ) al Mdhuwwath (properly) signifies the things that are spread, &c.; as also Al Mudh’hiyyath. (TA in art. dhaha ) _ Al’Matharuddahee The rain that removes (or drives) the pebbles from the surface of the earth. (TA.)

Ud'hiyy (S.K) (Originally od'huwa of the measure Uf’ool from dhahaithu but said in the S to be of that measure from dhahouthu the dial. var. dhahaithu not being there mentioned,) and and id’hiyy and Ud’hiyyath and ud’huwwath (K) The place of the laying of eggs, (S, K,) and of the hatching thereof, (S,) , of the ostrich, (S. K. ) in the sand; (K; ) because that bird expands it, and makes it wide, with its foot, or leg; for the ostrich has no (nest such as is termed) Ush (S: ) pl. Adahin (TA in the present art.) and Adahee (i. e., if not a mistranscription, Adahiyyu agreeably with the sing.): (TA in art. dhaha and mudhhiyya (likewise) signifies the place of the eggs of the ostrich. (S.) (Hence,) binthu Adh’hiyyathun A female ostrich. (TA.)_(Hence also,) Al Udkhiyyu and Al Id’hiyyu A certain Mansion of the Moon, (K, TA,) (namely, the Twenty-first Mansion,) between the Na’aai’m sa’dha zabih (more commonly) called Al Baldath likened to the Adhahhee of the ostrich. (TA.)

Ud’huwwath and udh’hiyyath: see the next preceding paragraph, in three places: - and for the latter, see also mid’hath, below.

Mad’han see ud’hiyy

Mid’hath A wooden thing with which a child is driven along (yud’ha), and which, passing over the ground, sweeps away everything against which it comes (K, TA.) - Accord. to Sh, A certain thing with which the people of Mekkeh play: he says, I heard El-Asadee describe it thus: Almadahiyy and Almasadiyy signify stones like the (small round cake of bread called) qursath, according to the size which a hole is dug, and widened a little: then they throw those stones (yad’hoona biha) to that hole and if the stone fall therein, the person wins; but if not, he is overcome: you say of him yad’hoo and yasdoo when he throws the stones (Iza dhahaha) over the ground to the hole: and the hole is called ud'hiyyath. (TA.) (Accord. to Freytag, the authority of the Deewan El-Hudhaleeyeen, A round thing made of lead, by the throwing of which persons contend together.)

Almadhuwwath and almad’hiyyath see Dahin,

Dhaha

1. Dhaha first pers. Dhahaithu,aor. yad’ha inf.n. dhah’ya: see 1 in art. Dhahoo.__ dhahaithul ibil (K,) inf. n. as above, (TA,) I drove the camel,; (K; ) as also dhahaithuha (TA.)

(4 mentioned by Freytag as on the authority of the K is a mistake for 5.)

5 (mentioned in this art. in the V and TA): see art. Dhahoo

7 (mentioned in this art. by MF): see art. Dhahoo.

Dhah’yath A single act of dhahy, i. e. spreading, (Msb.) = A she-ape, or she-monkey. (K.)
dhihyath A mode, or manner, of dhahyu, i. e. spreading, &c. (Msb.) = A headman, or chief, (R, K, TA,) in an absolute sense, in the dial. of El-Yemen, (R, TA,) and particularly, of an army, or a military force. (K, TA.) AA says that it signifies "a lord," or "chief," in Pers.; but seems to be from dhahahu aor. yadh’hoohu, meaning "he spread it, and made it plain or even ;" because it is for the headman or chief to do this; the a. being changed into LS as it is in swibyath and fith’yath; and if so, it belongs to art. dahoo. (TA.) (Accord. to Golius, the pl. is dihau; but I think that it is more probably dhahan.) It is in a trad. that what is called Albaithul Ma’emoor (q.v. in art. Amr) is entered every day by seventy thousand companies of angels, every one of these having with it a dhih’yath and consisting seventy thousand angels. (TA.)

Ud’hiyyun and Id’hiyyun see art. dhaha.

Ud’hiyyath: see ud’hiyyu, in art. dahoo, in two places.<ref>[http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume3/00000023.pdf Lane's Lexicon - daha (PDF)] </ref>}}
Note above that Lane also translates dahaha to mean the place in the sand where the ostrich lays its eggs, and not the eggs themselves.

=== Qur'an 88:20 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|88|20}}| والى الارض كيف سطحت

Wa-ila al-ardi kayfa sutihat

And at the Earth, how it is spread out?}}
Notice the word سَطَّحَ . If you do a word search in an Arabic Qur'an text file you will find the word سطحت , feminine for سَطَّحَ

سَطَّحَ = outspread , unfold , unroll , roll , lengthen , level , range , pave , pervade , circulate , grade , reach , even , level off , spread out , prostrate , plane , outstretch, flat , flatten , even , smoothen.

=== Qur'an 91:6 ===
{{Quote|{{Quran|91|6}}| والارض وماطحاها

Waal-ardi wama tahaha

By the Earth and its (wide) expanse}}

== Further Proof ==

===Qur'an 2:22===

{{Quote|{{Quran|2|22}}| الذي جعل لكم الارض فراشا والسماء بناء وانزل من السماء ماء فاخرج به من الثمرات رزقا لكم فلا تجعلوا لله اندادا وانتم تعلمون

Allathee jaAAala lakumu al-arda firashan waalssamaa binaan waanzala mina alssama-i maan faakhraja bihi mina alththamarati rizqan lakum fala tajAAaloo lillahi andadan waantum taAAlamoona

Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when ye know (the truth). }}

The word translated as canopy is binaa or binaan ( بِنَاء ). This word means "building". The heavens are as a multi-story building over the earth. There are seven layers or stories to this building called the heavens. The heavens are built on a "flat" foundation called "the earth". The tafsir of 'ibn Kathir confirms this:

{{quote || These Ayat indicate that Allah started creation by creating earth, then He made heaven into seven heavens. This is how building usually starts, with the lower floors first and then the top floors, <ref>[http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=1494 Tafsir 'ibn Kathir]</ref> }}

===Qur'an 18:86===

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|86}}| حتى اذا بلغ مغرب الشمس وجدها تغرب في عين حمئة ووجد عندها قوما قلنا ياذا القرنين اما ان تعذب واما ان تتخذ فيهم حسنا

Hatta itha balagha maghriba alshshamsi wajadaha taghrubu fee AAaynin hami-atin wawajada AAindaha qawman qulna ya tha alqarnayni imma an tuAAaththiba wa-imma an tattakhitha feehim husnan

Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness." }}

This verse on the [[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring|setting of the sun]] in murky water supports that the earth is flat in the Qur'an.

===Qur'an 18:47===

{{Quote|{{Quran|18|47}}| ويوم نسير الجبال وترى الارض بارزة وحشرناهم فلم نغادر منهم احدا

Wayawma nusayyiru aljibala watara al-arda barizatan wahasharnahum falam nughadir minhum ahadan

One Day We shall remove the mountains, and thou wilt see the earth as a level stretch, and We shall gather them, all together, nor shall We leave out any one of them. }}

In this verse we are told that it's only the mountains which keep the earth from being completely flat.

===Qur'an 2:144===
[[File:Praying towards the Ka'aba.JPG|right|thumb|250px|'''Top-left:''' Due to the sphericity of the earth, a prayer in any direction will point towards the sky/outer-space, not Mecca. '''Top-right:''' People who are located on the opposite 'side' of the earth would have to pray vertically down towards the center of the earth, and would also blaspheme against Allah, because they defecate toward the direction of the Ka'aba when they answer the call of nature. '''Bottom-left:''' If we use the traditional Muslim method of determining qiblah (i.e. a great circle) this would still be blasphemous because you would be simultaneously praying with your face and backside aimed towards the Ka'aba. '''Bottom-right:''' There is one point on the opposite 'side' of the earth where any direction for all 360 degrees would be facing 'towards' Mecca and consequently, there would be no one direction that would be the correct one.]]
{{Quote|{{Quran|2|144}}|We have seen the turning of thy face to heaven (for guidance, O Muhammad). And now verily We shall make thee turn (in prayer) toward a qiblah which is dear to thee. So turn thy face toward the Inviolable Place of Worship, and ye (O Muslims), wheresoever ye may be, turn your faces (when ye pray) toward it. Lo! Those who have received the Scripture know that (this revelation) is the Truth from their Lord. And Allah is not unaware of what they do.}}

This verse tells all Muslims to pray towards the [[Kaaba|Ka'aba]] (qiblah being the direction that one has to face in order to do this). This is only possible on a flat earth model. Due to the sphericity of the earth, a prayer in any direction will point towards the sky/outer-space, not Mecca.

For people who are praying a great distance from Mecca, their qiblah would be somewhere down towards the ground, and the people who are located on the opposite 'side' of the earth would have to pray vertically downward towards the center of the earth.

So, for example, Muslims in the Solomon Islands in fact blaspheme against Allah, because they defecate toward the direction of the Ka'aba when they answer the call of nature.

Even if we were to use the traditional Muslim method of determining qiblah (i.e. a [[W:Great circle|great circle]]) this would still be blasphemous because you would be simultaneously praying with your face and backside aimed towards the Ka'aba.

There is also one point on the opposite 'side' of the earth where any direction for all 360 degrees would be facing 'towards' Mecca and consequently, there would be no one direction that would be the correct one.

In addition to all of the direct evidence we have provided, this is just one of the problems which indirectly indicate that the narrator/writer of the Qur'an believed in a flat earth model.

===Qur'an 2:187===

{{Quote|{{Quran|2|187}}|It is made lawful for you to go in unto your wives on the night of the fast. They are raiment for you and ye are raiment for them. Allah is Aware that ye were deceiving yourselves in this respect and He hath turned in mercy toward you and relieved you. So hold intercourse with them and seek that which Allah hath ordained for you, and eat and drink until the white thread becometh distinct to you from the black thread of the dawn. Then strictly observe the fast till nightfall and touch them not, but be at your devotions in the mosques. These are the limits imposed by Allah, so approach them not. Thus Allah expoundeth His revelation to mankind that they may ward off (evil)}}

This verse tells Muslims, when fasting, to not eat, drink, or have [[Reproduction|sexual intercourse]] during sunlight hours. This can cause a [[The Ramadan Pole Paradox|huge problem]] for those who live close to the North or South poles.

The closer we get to the poles, the longer our days or nights become. They can eventually extend for up to several months each, making this verse, the fourth [[Five Pillars of Islam|Pillar of Islam]], impossible to practice without starving yourself to death. Again, this problem would not exist on a flat earth model.

== General Apologetics ==
===Qur'an 22:61, 31:29, & 39:5===
{{Quote|{{Quran|22|61}}| ذلك بان الله يولج الليل في النهار ويولج النهار في الليل وان الله سميع بصير

Thalika bi-anna Allaha yooliju allayla fee alnnahari wayooliju alnnahara fee allayli waanna Allaha sameeAAun baseerun

That is because Allah merges night into day, and He merges day into night, and verily it is Allah Who hears and sees (all things).}}
{{Quote|{{Quran|31|29}}| الم تر ان الله يولج الليل في النهار ويولج النهار في الليل وسخر الشمس والقمر كل يجري الى اجل مسمى وان الله بما تعملون خبير

Alam tara anna Allaha yooliju allayla fee alnnahari wayooliju alnnahara fee allayli wasakhkhara alshshamsa waalqamara kullun yajree ila ajalin musamman waanna Allaha bima taAAmaloona khabeerun

Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and he merges Day into Night; that He has subjected the sun, and the moon (to his Law), each running its course for a term appointed; and that Allah is well-acquainted with all that ye do?}}
{{Quote|{{Quran|39|5}}| خلق السماوات والارض بالحق يكور الليل على النهار ويكور النهار على الليل وسخر الشمس والقمر كل يجري لاجل مسمى الا هو العزيز الغفار

Khalaqa alssamawati waal-arda bialhaqqi yukawwiru allayla AAala alnnahari wayukawwiru alnnahara AAala allayli wasakhkhara alshshamsa waalqamara kullun yajree li-ajalin musamman ala huwa alAAazeezu alghaffaru

He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): Each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?}}

Muslims sometimes claim "Merging here means that the night slowly and gradually changes to day and vice versa. This phenomenon can only take place if the earth is spherical. If the earth was flat, there would have been a sudden change from night to day and from day to night."

This claim is false. The gradual shift from day to night and vice versa would still happen on a flat earth model. The only difference is that the flat earth model would be lit up at the same time, there would be no timezones just the same night and day for everyone.

You can do the experiment yourself. All you need is a dark room, table and flashlight. Simply let the flashlight rise slowly above the edge of the table, just like a sunrise, and you will see a gradual shift from darkness to light. So verses 31:29, 39:5 and 22:61, tell us nothing of the earth's shape. They are merely observations that anyone can make.

In addition, these verses erroneously refer to lightness and darkness as two different things. They are in fact the same thing. The Night does not "overlap" the Day because there is only light, and darkness is nothing but the absence of light.

== Conclusion ==

Shaykh Abdul-Aziz Ibn Baaz, the former supreme religious authority of [[Saudi Arabia]], believed the earth is flat,<ref>[{{Reference archive|1=http://www.nytimes.com/1995/02/12/world/muslim-edicts-take-on-new-force.html|2=2011-11-30}} Muslim Edicts Take on New Force] - New York Times, February 12, 1995.</ref><ref>Sheikh Abdul Aziz Ben Baz (1395 AH [1974 AD]), ''"Evidence that the Earth is Standing Still"'', Islamic University of Medina, Saudi Arabia. First edition, p. 23.</ref> and so does Muslim Researcher on Astronomy Fadhel Al-Sa'd, who declared in a televised debate aired on [[Iraq|Iraqi]] Al-Fayhaa TV (October 31, 2007) that the Earth is flat as evidenced by Qur'anic verses and that the sun is much smaller than the Earth and revolves around it.<ref>[http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/1684.htm Iraqi Researcher Defies Scientific Axioms: The Earth Is Flat and Much Larger than the Sun (Which Is Also Flat)] - MEMRI TV, Video No. 1684</ref>

As devout Muslims, they have good reason to conclude the Earth is flat; the Qur'anic verses 15:19, 20:53, 43:10, 50:7, 51:48, 71:19, 78:6, 79:30, 88:20 and 91:6 all clearly state this and not a single verse in the Qur'an hint to a spherical earth.

{{Core Science}}

== See Also ==

{{Hub4|Cosmology|Cosmology}}

{{Translation-links-english|[[Le Coran et la Terre plate|French]]}}

==External Links==

*[http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/earth_egg.html Is the Earth Egg-Shaped?] ''- [[Answering Islam]]''
*[http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fislammonitor.org%2Findex.php%3Foption%3Dcom_content%26task%3Dview%26id%3D1382%26Itemid%3D63&date=2011-03-26 The Earth is Flat] - ''Islam Monitor''
*[{{Reference archive|1=http://www.islam-watch.org/SujitDas/MuslimGenius.htm|2=2011-03-26}} A Tribute to a Muslim Genius (Sheik Abdul-Aziz Ibn Baaz)] ''- [[Islam Watch]]''

== References ==
{{Reflist|30em}}
[[Category:Islam and Science]]
[[Category:Qur'an]]
[[Category:HRK]]
{{page_title|Flat Earth and the Qur'an}}