Early Islamic Cosmology - Revision history

IbnPinker: Redirected page to Islamic Views on the Shape of the Earth

2020-11-11T02:57:47Z

Redirected page to Islamic Views on the Shape of the Earth

IbnPinker at 02:52, 11 November 2020

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	{{Quote\|{{Ibn Majah\|25\|4\|25\|2921}}\|It was narrated from Sahl bin Sa’d As-Sa’idi that the Messenger of Allah said:		{{Quote\|{{Ibn Majah\|25\|4\|25\|2921}}\|It was narrated from Sahl bin Sa’d As-Sa’idi that the Messenger of Allah said:
	“There is no (pilgrim) who recites the Talbiyah but that which is to his right and left also recites it, rocks and trees and hills, to the farthest ends of the earth in each direction, from here and from there.”}}		“There is no (pilgrim) who recites the Talbiyah but that which is to his right and left also recites it, rocks and trees and hills, to the farthest ends of the earth in each direction, from here and from there.”}}
	~~==External links==~~

	*[http://www.answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/seven_earths.html Answering Islam] - The Seven Earths
	*[https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/muhammads-magical-mountain-one-whale-of-a-tale/ AnsweringIslamBlog.wordpress.com] - Muhammad's Magical Mountain: One Whale of a Tail!
	*[http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/whale_nun.htm Answering-Islam.com] - The Quran and The Shape of the Earth
	*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVhsVjXJzKM Youtube.com] Islam & the whale that carries the Earth on its back - Video by TheMaskedArab

	==References==		==References==
	{{Reflist\|30em}}		{{Reflist\|30em}}

	[[Category:Islam and Science]]		[[Category:Islam and Science]]

IbnPinker at 02:44, 11 November 2020

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	[[File:Blue-Marble-1972.jpg\|right\|thumb\|200px\|The 'Blue Marble' photograph of the Earth taken by the crew of Apollo 17 on their way to the moon in December 1972]]		[[File:Blue-Marble-1972.jpg\|right\|thumb\|200px\|The 'Blue Marble' photograph of the Earth taken by the crew of Apollo 17 on their way to the moon in December 1972]]

	When ~~critics point~~ out that the [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Flat_Earth_and_the_Quran Qur'anic Earth is flat], or that the author of the Qur'an believed that [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Dhul-Qarnayn_and_the_Sun_Setting_in_a_Muddy_Spring_-_Part_One the sun sets in a muddy spring], and furthermore, that such verses encouraged the early Muslims to maintain false beliefs about the world, it is sometimes claimed in response that everyone knew that the Earth was round by the time of Muhammad. This article will dispel that assertion, and as such is complementary to discussions about Islamic cosmography.		When it is pointed out that the [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Flat_Earth_and_the_Quran Qur'anic Earth is flat], or that the author of the Qur'an believed that [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Dhul-Qarnayn_and_the_Sun_Setting_in_a_Muddy_Spring_-_Part_One the sun sets in a muddy spring], and furthermore, that such verses encouraged the early Muslims to maintain false beliefs about the world, it is sometimes claimed in response that everyone knew that the Earth was round by the time of Muhammad. This article will dispel that assertion, and as such is complementary to discussions about Islamic cosmography.

	It seems that despite the best efforts of apologetics websites, there is no known evidence for a round Earth belief among the earliest Muslims, which would surely be abundant if Muhammad had such knowledge, and plenty of evidence for belief in a flat Earth.		It seems that despite the best efforts of apologetics websites, there is no known evidence for a round Earth belief among the earliest Muslims, which would surely be abundant if Muhammad had such knowledge, and plenty of evidence for belief in a flat Earth. On the contrary, the Qur'an itself seems to clearly maintain a flat-earth model of the planet.

	==Absence of consensus in the Muslim world==		==Absence of consensus in the Muslim world==

IbnPinker at 18:32, 10 November 2020

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	[[Category:Islam and Science]]		[[Category:Islam and Science]]
	~~[[Category:Martin Taverille]]~~

IbnPinker at 01:55, 10 November 2020

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	[[Category:Islam and Science]]		[[Category:Islam and Science]]
	[[Category:Martin Taverille]]		[[Category:Martin Taverille]]
	~~{{page_title\|Did Muhammad and the Earliest Muslims know the Earth is Round?}}~~

IbnPinker: IbnPinker moved page Did Muhammad and the early Muslims know that the Earth is round to Early Islamic Cosmology

2020-11-10T01:15:33Z

IbnPinker moved page Did Muhammad and the early Muslims know that the Earth is round to Early Islamic Cosmology

← Older revision

Revision as of 01:15, 10 November 2020

Lightyears at 00:44, 22 September 2020

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	Ibn Kathir recorded that Mujahid said that the seven heavens and the seven Earths are on top of one another. This belief is also apparent in some of the hadiths quoted in the Relevant Quotations section below.		Ibn Kathir recorded that Mujahid said that the seven heavens and the seven Earths are on top of one another. This belief is also apparent in some of the hadiths quoted in the Relevant Quotations section below.

	{{Quote\|1=[http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-Ar-~~Rad~~/~~Clarifying~~-~~Allahs~~-~~Perfect~~-~~Abi~~--- Tafsir ibn Kathir for Qur'an 2:29 (41:11)]\|2=(And made them seven heavens) means, one above the other, while the `seven earths' means, one below the other.''}}		{{Quote\|1=[http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-Al-Baqara/The-Earth-was-created-before-H--- Tafsir ibn Kathir for Qur'an 2:29 (41:11)]\|2=(And made them seven heavens) means, one above the other, while the `seven earths' means, one below the other.''}}

	===The Earth on the back of a whale===		===The Earth on the back of a whale===
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	The Prophet said, "Whoever takes a piece of the land of others unjustly, he will sink down the seven earths on the Day of Resurrection."}}		The Prophet said, "Whoever takes a piece of the land of others unjustly, he will sink down the seven earths on the Day of Resurrection."}}

			These are seven flat earths, not spherical layers (طوّقه means put on a neck-ring<ref>طوق tawwaqa [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000179.pdf Lane's Lexicon] p. 1894</ref>):

			{{Quote\|{{Bukhari\|3\|43\|632}}\|Narrated Sa`id bin Zaid:

			Allah's Messenger said, "Whoever usurps the land of somebody unjustly, '''his neck will be encircled with it''' down the seven earths (on the Day of Resurrection). "
			}}

			{{Quote\|{{Muslim\|10\|3923}}\|Sa'id b. Zaid reported:

			I heard Allah's Apostle say: He who took a span of earth wrongly '''would be made to wear around his neck''' seven earths on the Day of Resurrection.}}

	This next hadith is on the same topic. It is graded daif (weak), but shows what some early Muslims (if not actually Muhammad) thought about the world:		This next hadith is on the same topic. It is graded daif (weak), but shows what some early Muslims (if not actually Muhammad) thought about the world:

IbnPinker: /* Absence of consensus in the Muslim world */

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Absence of consensus in the Muslim world

Lightyears: /* The sky is a dome above the Earth */

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The sky is a dome above the Earth

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	Ibn Kathir in his tafsir for {{Quran\|13\|2}} has yet more narrations of the sahabah and tabi'un (2nd generation) on this topic:		Ibn Kathir in his tafsir for {{Quran\|13\|2}} has yet more narrations of the sahabah and tabi'un (2nd generation) on this topic:

	{{Quote\|1=[http://~~www~~.qtafsir.com/~~index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2321~~ Tafsir ibn Kathir for Qur'an 13:2]\|2=Allah said next, (..without any pillars that you can see.) meaning, `there are pillars, but you cannot see them,' according to Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, and several other scholars. Iyas bin Mu`awiyah said, "The heaven is like a dome over the earth," meaning, without pillars. Similar was reported from Qatadah, and this meaning is better for this part of the Ayah, especially since Allah said in another Ayah, (He withholds the heaven from falling on the earth except by His permission.) 22:65 Therefore, Allah's statement, (..that you can see), affirms that there are no pillars. Rather, the heaven is elevated (above the earth) without pillars, as you see. This meaning best affirms Allah's ability and power.}}		{{Quote\|1=[http://m.qtafsir.com/Surah-Ar-Rad/Clarifying-Allahs-Perfect-Abi--- Tafsir ibn Kathir for Qur'an 13:2]\|2=Allah said next, (..without any pillars that you can see.) meaning, `there are pillars, but you cannot see them,' according to Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, and several other scholars. Iyas bin Mu`awiyah said, "The heaven is like a dome over the earth," meaning, without pillars. Similar was reported from Qatadah, and this meaning is better for this part of the Ayah, especially since Allah said in another Ayah, (He withholds the heaven from falling on the earth except by His permission.) 22:65 Therefore, Allah's statement, (..that you can see), affirms that there are no pillars. Rather, the heaven is elevated (above the earth) without pillars, as you see. This meaning best affirms Allah's ability and power.}}

	===Seven Flat Earths===		===Seven Flat Earths===

Lightyears at 09:17, 2 August 2020

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	Al-Tabari's tafsir contains other indications of a common flat Earth belief. For example, regarding {{Quran\|68\|1}}, which mysteriously starts with the Arabic letter nun, he (and many other tafsirs) records that one of the interpretations among sahabah such as ibn 'Abbas was that the 'nun' is a [[The Islamic Whale\|whale on whose back the Earth is carried]] (other interpretations were that it was an inkwell, or a name of Allah). The evidence is extensively documented on other websites including narrations with sahih chains from the sahabah, so the interested reader is referred to them.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVhsVjXJzKM Youtube.com] Islam & the whale that carries the Earth on its back - Video by TheMaskedArab</ref><ref>[https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/muhammads-magical-mountain-one-whale-of-a-tale/ AnsweringIslamBlog.wordpress.com] - Muhammad's Magical Mountain: One Whale of a Tail!</ref><ref>[http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/whale_nun.htm Answering-Islam.com] - The Quran and The Shape of the Earth</ref>		Al-Tabari's tafsir contains other indications of a common flat Earth belief. For example, regarding {{Quran\|68\|1}}, which mysteriously starts with the Arabic letter nun, he (and many other tafsirs) records that one of the interpretations among sahabah such as ibn 'Abbas was that the 'nun' is a [[The Islamic Whale\|whale on whose back the Earth is carried]] (other interpretations were that it was an inkwell, or a name of Allah). The evidence is extensively documented on other websites including narrations with sahih chains from the sahabah, so the interested reader is referred to them.<ref>[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVhsVjXJzKM Youtube.com] Islam & the whale that carries the Earth on its back - Video by TheMaskedArab</ref><ref>[https://answeringislamblog.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/muhammads-magical-mountain-one-whale-of-a-tale/ AnsweringIslamBlog.wordpress.com] - Muhammad's Magical Mountain: One Whale of a Tail!</ref><ref>[http://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/whale_nun.htm Answering-Islam.com] - The Quran and The Shape of the Earth</ref>

	==~~Relevant Quotations (~~Hadiths)==		==Flat Earth in Hadiths==
	Given the topic of this article, there are no quotes form the Quran itself in this section. Rather, the quotes below are relevant to commonplace beliefs about the shape of the Earth among the earliest Muslims. For the same reason, it matters little whether the hadiths are authentic or not; either way they demonstrate beliefs of early Muslims.		Given the topic of this article, there are no quotes form the Quran itself in this section. Rather, the quotes below are relevant to commonplace beliefs about the shape of the Earth among the earliest Muslims. For the same reason, it matters little whether the hadiths are authentic or not; either way they demonstrate beliefs of early Muslims.

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	[[File:Blue-Marble-1972.jpg\|right\|thumb\|200px\|The 'Blue Marble' photograph of the Earth taken by the crew of Apollo 17 on their way to the moon in December 1972]]		[[File:Blue-Marble-1972.jpg\|right\|thumb\|200px\|The 'Blue Marble' photograph of the Earth taken by the crew of Apollo 17 on their way to the moon in December 1972]]

	When critics point out that the [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Flat_Earth_and_the_Quran Qur'anic Earth is flat], or that the author of the Qur'an believed that [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Dhul-Qarnayn_and_the_Sun_Setting_in_a_Muddy_Spring_-_Part_One the sun sets in a muddy spring], and furthermore, that such verses encouraged the early Muslims to maintain false beliefs about the world, sometimes ~~people claim~~ in response that everyone knew that the Earth was round by the time of Muhammad. This article will dispel that assertion, and as such is complementary to discussions about Islamic cosmography.		When critics point out that the [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Flat_Earth_and_the_Quran Qur'anic Earth is flat], or that the author of the Qur'an believed that [https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Dhul-Qarnayn_and_the_Sun_Setting_in_a_Muddy_Spring_-_Part_One the sun sets in a muddy spring], and furthermore, that such verses encouraged the early Muslims to maintain false beliefs about the world, it is sometimes claimed in response that everyone knew that the Earth was round by the time of Muhammad. This article will dispel that assertion, and as such is complementary to discussions about Islamic cosmography.

	It seems that despite the best efforts of apologetics websites, there is no known evidence for a round Earth belief among the earliest Muslims, which would surely be abundant if Muhammad had such knowledge, and plenty of evidence for belief in a flat Earth.		It seems that despite the best efforts of apologetics websites, there is no known evidence for a round Earth belief among the earliest Muslims, which would surely be abundant if Muhammad had such knowledge, and plenty of evidence for belief in a flat Earth.
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	[https://islamqa.info/en/118698 One Islamic fatwah website]<ref>[https://islamqa.info/en/118698 IslamQA.info - 118698: Consensus that the Earth is round]</ref> (copied by others) quotes from scholars who lived hundreds of years after Muhammad in a failed attempt to show that there was always a Muslim consensus that the Earth is round. They are implying that the Qur'an does not reflect a very human lack of knowledge about the shape of the Earth.		[https://islamqa.info/en/118698 One Islamic fatwah website]<ref>[https://islamqa.info/en/118698 IslamQA.info - 118698: Consensus that the Earth is round]</ref> (copied by others) quotes from scholars who lived hundreds of years after Muhammad in a failed attempt to show that there was always a Muslim consensus that the Earth is round. They are implying that the Qur'an does not reflect a very human lack of knowledge about the shape of the Earth.

	=== ibn Taymiyyah ===		===ibn Taymiyyah===
	To do so, they first quote from a book by ibn Taymiyyah (d. 728 AH/1328 CE), who in turn cites Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al Munadi as saying that the scholars from the second level of the companions of Imam Ahmad (d. 241 AH / 855 CE) – i.e. the early Hanbalis – said there was consensus among the scholars that both heaven and Earth are balls, the latter based on astronomical reasoning. This evidence is worthless, because from the 8th century CE the Muslims had access to Greek and Indian astronomical knowledge (see below), so of course Muslim scholars had this view. The term 'consensus' (ijma) was used in different ways by different scholars, but essentially meant the agreement of Muslim scholars, or ideally, also of the salaf (the first three generations of Muslims)<ref>[http://www.sunnah.org/fiqh/ijma.htm sunnah.org] Questions on Ijma` (concensus), Taqlid (following qualified opinion), and Ikhtilaf Al-Fuqaha' (differences of the jurists) by Shaykh Hisham Muhammad Kabbani</ref>. In this case it is explicitly the scholars. As we read on, however, it is apparent that even this "consensus" for a round Earth was rather nebulous, and as already mentioned and will see again, those who did endorse a round Earth did so because they were educated people aware of the astronomical arguments.		To do so, they first quote from a book by ibn Taymiyyah (d. 728 AH/1328 CE), who in turn cites Abu’l-Husayn Ahmad ibn Ja‘far ibn al Munadi as saying that the scholars from the second level of the companions of Imam Ahmad (d. 241 AH / 855 CE) – i.e. the early Hanbalis – said there was consensus among the scholars that both heaven and Earth are balls, the latter based on astronomical reasoning. This evidence is worthless, because from the 8th century CE the Muslims had access to Greek and Indian astronomical knowledge (see below), so of course Muslim scholars had this view. The term 'consensus' (ijma) was used in different ways by different scholars, but essentially meant the agreement of Muslim scholars, or ideally, also of the salaf (the first three generations of Muslims)<ref>[http://www.sunnah.org/fiqh/ijma.htm sunnah.org] Questions on Ijma` (concensus), Taqlid (following qualified opinion), and Ikhtilaf Al-Fuqaha' (differences of the jurists) by Shaykh Hisham Muhammad Kabbani</ref>. In this case it is explicitly the scholars. As we read on, however, it is apparent that even this "consensus" for a round Earth was rather nebulous, and as already mentioned and will see again, those who did endorse a round Earth did so because they were educated people aware of the astronomical arguments.

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	Ibn Taymiyyah then says that a middle only exists in a round thing. How any of this helps demonstrate that the heavens are spherical is a mystery.		Ibn Taymiyyah then says that a middle only exists in a round thing. How any of this helps demonstrate that the heavens are spherical is a mystery.

	=== Ibn Hazm ===		===Ibn Hazm===
	The Islamic fatwah website then quotes one of the three that ibn Taymiyyah cited, ibn Hazm, who said that there is sound evidence that the Earth is round, but the common people and some non-leading Muslim scholars thought otherwise, though none of the leading scholars denied that the Earth is round.		The Islamic fatwah website then quotes one of the three that ibn Taymiyyah cited, ibn Hazm, who said that there is sound evidence that the Earth is round, but the common people and some non-leading Muslim scholars thought otherwise, though none of the leading scholars denied that the Earth is round.

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	A number of Syrian churchmen, notably but not only the Easterners working in the tradition of Theodore of Mopsuestia, took the view of the sky as an edifice for granted. Narsai d. ''c''. 503), the first head of the school of Nisibis, in his homilies on creation, described God's fashioning of the firmament of heaven in these terms: "Like a roof upon the top of the house he stretched out the firmament / that the house below, the domain of earth, might be complete". ''ayk taṭlîlâ l-baytâ da-l-tḥēt mtaḥ la-rqî῾â I d-nehwê mamlâ dûkkat ar῾â l-baytâ da-l῾el''. Also "He finished building the heaven and earth as a spacious house" ''šaklel wa-bnâ šmayyâ w-ar῾â baytâ rwîḥâ''. Jacob of Serugh (d. 521) wrote similarly on the shape of the world in his Hexaemeron homilies. A further witness to the discussion is a Syriac hymn, composed ''c.'' 543-554, describing a domed church in Edessa as a microcosm of the world, its dome being the counterpart of the sky. This is the earliest known text to make a church edifice to be a microcosm, and it shows that the debates over cosmology were meaningful to more than a small number of theologians.}}		A number of Syrian churchmen, notably but not only the Easterners working in the tradition of Theodore of Mopsuestia, took the view of the sky as an edifice for granted. Narsai d. ''c''. 503), the first head of the school of Nisibis, in his homilies on creation, described God's fashioning of the firmament of heaven in these terms: "Like a roof upon the top of the house he stretched out the firmament / that the house below, the domain of earth, might be complete". ''ayk taṭlîlâ l-baytâ da-l-tḥēt mtaḥ la-rqî῾â I d-nehwê mamlâ dûkkat ar῾â l-baytâ da-l῾el''. Also "He finished building the heaven and earth as a spacious house" ''šaklel wa-bnâ šmayyâ w-ar῾â baytâ rwîḥâ''. Jacob of Serugh (d. 521) wrote similarly on the shape of the world in his Hexaemeron homilies. A further witness to the discussion is a Syriac hymn, composed ''c.'' 543-554, describing a domed church in Edessa as a microcosm of the world, its dome being the counterpart of the sky. This is the earliest known text to make a church edifice to be a microcosm, and it shows that the debates over cosmology were meaningful to more than a small number of theologians.}}
	</ref> for excerpts of that chapter, which he ~~summarises~~ by saying:		</ref> for excerpts of that chapter, which he summarizes by saying:

	{{Quote\|\|Clearly the Ptolemaic cosmology was not taken for granted in the Aramaean part of Asia in the sixth century. It was, rather, controversial.}}		{{Quote\|\|Clearly the Ptolemaic cosmology was not taken for granted in the Aramaean part of Asia in the sixth century. It was, rather, controversial.}}
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	The Prophet said, "Whoever takes a piece of the land of others unjustly, he will sink down the seven earths on the Day of Resurrection."}}		The Prophet said, "Whoever takes a piece of the land of others unjustly, he will sink down the seven earths on the Day of Resurrection."}}

	~~<br />~~This next hadith is on the same topic. It is graded daif (weak), but shows what some early Muslims (if not actually Muhammad) thought about the world:		This next hadith is on the same topic. It is graded daif (weak), but shows what some early Muslims (if not actually Muhammad) thought about the world:

	{{Quote\|{{Al Tirmidhi\|47\|6\|44\|3298}}\|...Then he said: ‘Do you know what is under you?’ They said: ‘Allah and His Messenger know better.’ He said: ‘Indeed it is the earth.’ Then he said: ‘Do you know what is under that?’ They said: ‘Allah and His Messenger know better.’ He said: ‘Verily, below it is another earth, between the two of which is a distance of five-hundred years.’ Until he enumerated seven earths: ‘Between every two earths is a distance of five-hundred years.’...}}		{{Quote\|{{Al Tirmidhi\|47\|6\|44\|3298}}\|...Then he said: ‘Do you know what is under you?’ They said: ‘Allah and His Messenger know better.’ He said: ‘Indeed it is the earth.’ Then he said: ‘Do you know what is under that?’ They said: ‘Allah and His Messenger know better.’ He said: ‘Verily, below it is another earth, between the two of which is a distance of five-hundred years.’ Until he enumerated seven earths: ‘Between every two earths is a distance of five-hundred years.’...}}

	~~<br />~~The following hadith is graded Sahih by Dar-us-Salam (Hafiz Zubair 'Ali Za'i) and has a chain of narration graded as Sahih (authentic) by al-Albani. It is from Sunan Abu Dawud, book XXV - Kitab Al-Ahruf Wa Al-Qira’at (Book of Dialects and Readings Of The Qur’an):		The following hadith is graded Sahih by Dar-us-Salam (Hafiz Zubair 'Ali Za'i) and has a chain of narration graded as Sahih (authentic) by al-Albani. It is from Sunan Abu Dawud, book XXV - Kitab Al-Ahruf Wa Al-Qira’at (Book of Dialects and Readings Of The Qur’an):

	{{Quote\|{{Abudawud\|\|4002\|darussalam}}\|Narrated Abu Dharr:		{{Quote\|{{Abudawud\|\|4002\|darussalam}}\|Narrated Abu Dharr:
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	I was sitting behind the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets ? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water (Hamiyah).}}		I was sitting behind the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets ? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water (Hamiyah).}}

	~~<br />~~Notice that the next hadith below says, "from its rising place" (min matli'iha مَطْلِعِهَا ), and "from the place of your setting" (min maghribiki مِنْ مَغْرِبِكِ). The sun is commanded to go somewhere – it cannot be claimed that this is an idiomatic way of commanding the Earth to rotate, nor that the words mean the east and west here (despite mistranslations of similar hadiths), not least because the words al mashriq and al maghrib would have been used for that purpose and without the possessive suffixes. The words used in this hadith must refer to the sun’s rising and setting places.		Notice that the next hadith below says, "from its rising place" (min matli'iha مَطْلِعِهَا ), and "from the place of your setting" (min maghribiki مِنْ مَغْرِبِكِ). The sun is commanded to go somewhere – it cannot be claimed that this is an idiomatic way of commanding the Earth to rotate, nor that the words mean the east and west here (despite mistranslations of similar hadiths), not least because the words al mashriq and al maghrib would have been used for that purpose and without the possessive suffixes. The words used in this hadith must refer to the sun’s rising and setting places.

	{{Quote\|{{Muslim\|1\|297}}\|It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one day said:		{{Quote\|{{Muslim\|1\|297}}\|It is narrated on the authority of Abu Dharr that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) one day said:
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	'''Do you know where the sun goes?''' They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: '''Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place''' and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it would be said to it: '''Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting.''' The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith.<ref>For the Arabic, see [http://sunnah.com/muslim/1/306 sunnah.com] or #159: [http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=192&TOCID=81&BookID=25&PID=299 hadith.al-islam.com]</ref>}}		'''Do you know where the sun goes?''' They replied: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) observed: Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: '''Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place''' and then glides till it reaches its place of rest under the Throne and falls prostrate and remains in that state until it is asked: Rise up and return to the place whence you came, and it returns and emerges out from it rising place and the it glides (in such a normal way) that the people do not discern anything ( unusual in it) till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it would be said to it: '''Rise up and emerge out from the place of your setting, and it will rise from the place of its setting.''' The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said. Do you know when it would happen? It would happen at the time when faith will not benefit one who has not previously believed or has derived no good from the faith.<ref>For the Arabic, see [http://sunnah.com/muslim/1/306 sunnah.com] or #159: [http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=192&TOCID=81&BookID=25&PID=299 hadith.al-islam.com]</ref>}}

	~~<br />~~This next hadith is relevant because on a flat Earth night begins for everyone at the same time.		This next hadith is relevant because on a flat Earth night begins for everyone at the same time.

	{{Quote\|{{Muslim\|4\|1657}}\|Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:		{{Quote\|{{Muslim\|4\|1657}}\|Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) as saying:
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	{{Quote\|{{Ibn Majah\|25\|4\|25\|2921}}\|It was narrated from Sahl bin Sa’d As-Sa’idi that the Messenger of Allah said:		{{Quote\|{{Ibn Majah\|25\|4\|25\|2921}}\|It was narrated from Sahl bin Sa’d As-Sa’idi that the Messenger of Allah said:
	“There is no (pilgrim) who recites the Talbiyah but that which is to his right and left also recites it, rocks and trees and hills, to the farthest ends of the earth in each direction, from here and from there.”}}		“There is no (pilgrim) who recites the Talbiyah but that which is to his right and left also recites it, rocks and trees and hills, to the farthest ends of the earth in each direction, from here and from there.”}}


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