1234567: /* Comment */

2013-05-19T01:52:50Z

Comment

← Older revision		Revision as of 01:52, 19 May 2013
Line 16:		Line 16:

	: Furthermore, even if you are right, the phrase 'equal fairness' does not preclude the ahadith and tafseer I have provided that show that 4:3 is dealing with material equality. Where did you get your translation from? Note that none of the 16 (sixteen) translators (given on the site above) have given the phrase you have ('equal fairness'). Thanks! [[User:Sanitarium\|Sanitarium]] 03:34, 14 December 2008 (PST)		: Furthermore, even if you are right, the phrase 'equal fairness' does not preclude the ahadith and tafseer I have provided that show that 4:3 is dealing with material equality. Where did you get your translation from? Note that none of the 16 (sixteen) translators (given on the site above) have given the phrase you have ('equal fairness'). Thanks! [[User:Sanitarium\|Sanitarium]] 03:34, 14 December 2008 (PST)



	~~Muhammad did not believe that "equity" meant equal distributions of material goods. He made no attempt to distribute the food equally.~~

	:'''Bukhari 47:755'''. Narrated Urwa from Ayesha: The wives of Allah’s Apostle were in two groups. One group consisted of '''Ayesha''', '''Hafsa''', '''Safiya''' and '''Sawda'''; and the other group consisted of '''Umm Salama''' and the other wives of Allah’s Apostle.

	:The Muslims knew that Allah’s Apostle loved '''Ayesha''', so if any of them had a gift and wished to give to Allah’s Apostle, he would delay it, till Allah’s Apostle had come to '''Ayesha'''’s home and then he would send his gift to Allah’s Apostle in her home.

	:The group of '''Umm Salama''' discussed the matter together and decided that '''Umm Salama''' should request Allah’s Apostle to tell the people to send their gifts to him in whatever wife’s house he was. '''Umm Salama''' told Allah’s Apostle of what they had said, but he did not reply. Then ['''the wives'''] asked '''Umm Salama''' about it. She said, “He did not say anything to me.” They asked her to talk to him again. She talked to him again when she met him on her day, but he gave no reply. When they asked her, she replied that he had given no reply. They said to her, “Talk to him till he gives you a reply.” When it was her turn, she talked to him again. He then said to her, “Do not hurt me regarding '''Ayesha''', as the Divine Inspirations do not come to me on any of the beds except that of '''Ayesha'''.” On that '''Umm Salama''' said, “I repent to Allah for hurting you.”

	:Then the group of '''Umm Salama''' called '''Fatima''', the daughter of Allah’s Apostle, and sent her to Allah’s Apostle to say to him, “Your '''wives''' request to treat them and the '''daughter of Abu Bakr''' on equal terms.” Then '''Fatima''' conveyed the message to him. The Prophet said, “O my daughter! Don’t you love whom I love?” She replied in the affirmative and returned and told them of the situation. They requested her to go to him again but she refused.

	:They then sent '''Zaynab bint Jahsh''', who went to him and used harsh words saying, “Your '''wives''' request you to treat them and '''the daughter of Ibn Abu Quhafa [Abu Bakr]''' on equal terms.” On that she raised her voice and abused '''Ayesha''' to her face, so much so that Allah’s Apostle looked at '''Ayesha''' to see whether she would retort.

	~~:'''Ayesha''' started replying to '''Zaynab''' till she silenced her. The Prophet then looked at '''Ayesha''' and said, “She is truly the daughter of Abu Bakr.”~~

	~~''This is what we learn from the Perfect Example for Humanity.''~~

	~~1. It was all right to love one wife more than the others.~~

	~~2. It was all right to give one wife more food than the others.~~

	3. It was all right for the wives to divide into two factions and compete against one another. (Umm Salama and Zaynab were first cousins and would have been friends from childhood. Ayesha chose her allies for their low-threat factor: she knew that Muhammad did not love Sawda and that Safiya did not love Muhammad.)

	~~4. It was not all right for Umm Salama to ask Muhammad to use his scales and treat them fairly. She had to apologise for suggesting it.~~

	~~5. It was all right for Fatima to be part of the domestic politics in terms of female/female relationships.~~

	~~6. It was not all right for Fatima to disagree with her father. Once he was involved, she had to agree with him.~~

	~~7. It was all right for the wives to abuse one another verbally. Muhammad cheered when Ayesha won.[[User:1234567\|1234567]] ([[User talk:1234567\|talk]]) 03:23, 14 June 2012 (PDT)~~

1234567 at 10:23, 14 June 2012

2012-06-14T10:23:46Z

New page

==Comment==
I do not see where 4:3 only mandates that material equality and equitable Mahr are required in order to fulfill its requirement of justice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Have you looked at the actual translation???

وَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تُقْسِطُواْ فِي الْيَتَامَى فَانكِحُواْ مَا طَابَ لَكُم مِّنَ النِّسَاء مَثْنَى وَثُلاَثَ وَرُبَاعَ فَإِنْ خِفْتُمْ أَلاَّ تَعْدِلُواْ فَوَاحِدَةً أَوْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ذَلِكَ أَدْنَى أَلاَّ تَعُولُواْ (4:3

4:3 And if you have reason to fear that you might not act equitably towards orphans, then marry from among [other] women such as are lawful to you [3] - [even] two, or three, or four: but if you have reason to fear that you might not be able to treat them with equal fairness, then [only] one - or [from among] those whom you rightfully possess. [4] This will make it more likely that you will not deviate from the right course. {{unsigned|79.132.209.44}}

: Hi there, did you look at my article (linked at the bottom of this one? [[Dealing Justly with Wives and Orphans]] It is all explained there. Also I do not see where the literal translation shows the phrase "equal fairness". For example check out [http://www.islamawakened.org/Quran/default.htm this site]. It shows:

:'''Arabic''': وان خفتم الا تقسطوا في اليتامى فانكحوا ماطاب لكم من النساء مثنى وثلاث ورباع فان خفتم الا تعدلوا فواحدة او ماملكت ايمانكم ذلك ادنى الا تعولوا

:'''Transliteration''': Wa-in khiftum alla tuqsitoo fee alyatama fainkihoo ma taba lakum mina alnnisa-i mathna wathulatha warubaAAa fa-in khiftum alla taAAdiloo fawahidatan aw ma malakat aymanukum thalika adna alla taAAooloo

:'''Literal''': And if you feared that you not be '''just/equitable''' in the orphans , so marry what (was) allowed/permitted for you from the women two twos/twos, and threes, and fours, so if you feared that you not be '''just/equitable''', so (marry) one or what your rights owned/possessed, that (is) nearer that you not side away from justice .

: Furthermore, even if you *are* right, the phrase 'equal fairness' does not preclude the ahadith and tafseer I have provided that show that 4:3 is dealing with material equality. Where did you get your translation from? Note that none of the 16 (sixteen) translators (given on the site above) have given the phrase you have ('equal fairness'). Thanks! [[User:Sanitarium|Sanitarium]] 03:34, 14 December 2008 (PST)

Muhammad did not believe that "equity" meant equal distributions of material goods. He made no attempt to distribute the food equally.

:'''Bukhari 47:755'''. Narrated Urwa from Ayesha: The wives of Allah’s Apostle were in two groups. One group consisted of '''Ayesha''', '''Hafsa''', '''Safiya''' and '''Sawda'''; and the other group consisted of '''Umm Salama''' and the other wives of Allah’s Apostle.

:The Muslims knew that Allah’s Apostle loved '''Ayesha''', so if any of them had a gift and wished to give to Allah’s Apostle, he would delay it, till Allah’s Apostle had come to '''Ayesha'''’s home and then he would send his gift to Allah’s Apostle in her home.

:The group of '''Umm Salama''' discussed the matter together and decided that '''Umm Salama''' should request Allah’s Apostle to tell the people to send their gifts to him in whatever wife’s house he was. '''Umm Salama''' told Allah’s Apostle of what they had said, but he did not reply. Then ['''the wives'''] asked '''Umm Salama''' about it. She said, “He did not say anything to me.” They asked her to talk to him again. She talked to him again when she met him on her day, but he gave no reply. When they asked her, she replied that he had given no reply. They said to her, “Talk to him till he gives you a reply.” When it was her turn, she talked to him again. He then said to her, “Do not hurt me regarding '''Ayesha''', as the Divine Inspirations do not come to me on any of the beds except that of '''Ayesha'''.” On that '''Umm Salama''' said, “I repent to Allah for hurting you.”

:Then the group of '''Umm Salama''' called '''Fatima''', the daughter of Allah’s Apostle, and sent her to Allah’s Apostle to say to him, “Your '''wives''' request to treat them and the '''daughter of Abu Bakr''' on equal terms.” Then '''Fatima''' conveyed the message to him. The Prophet said, “O my daughter! Don’t you love whom I love?” She replied in the affirmative and returned and told them of the situation. They requested her to go to him again but she refused.

:They then sent '''Zaynab bint Jahsh''', who went to him and used harsh words saying, “Your '''wives''' request you to treat them and '''the daughter of Ibn Abu Quhafa [Abu Bakr]''' on equal terms.” On that she raised her voice and abused '''Ayesha''' to her face, so much so that Allah’s Apostle looked at '''Ayesha''' to see whether she would retort.

:'''Ayesha''' started replying to '''Zaynab''' till she silenced her. The Prophet then looked at '''Ayesha''' and said, “She is truly the daughter of Abu Bakr.”

''This is what we learn from the Perfect Example for Humanity.''

1. It was all right to love one wife more than the others.

2. It was all right to give one wife more food than the others.

3. It was all right for the wives to divide into two factions and compete against one another. (Umm Salama and Zaynab were first cousins and would have been friends from childhood. Ayesha chose her allies for their low-threat factor: she knew that Muhammad did not love Sawda and that Safiya did not love Muhammad.)

4. It was not all right for Umm Salama to ask Muhammad to use his scales and treat them fairly. She had to apologise for suggesting it.

5. It was all right for Fatima to be part of the domestic politics in terms of female/female relationships.

6. It was not all right for Fatima to disagree with her father. Once he was involved, she had to agree with him.

7. It was all right for the wives to abuse one another verbally. Muhammad cheered when Ayesha won.[[User:1234567|1234567]] ([[User talk:1234567|talk]]) 03:23, 14 June 2012 (PDT)

Talk:Unjust Treatment of Wives (Qur'an 4:129) - Revision history

1234567: /* Comment */

1234567 at 10:23, 14 June 2012