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== A barrier between two seas and the cosmic oceans ==

'''Main page image to upload (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tSZVB0TTdpOtG0Y5sUbrCrsBiiHFZ-Io/view?usp=sharing). Rights brought from iStock to use on website.https://www.istockphoto.com/photo/estuary-difference-between-fresh-water-and-sea-water-from-above-gm1462114312-495765419?phrase=estuary+freshwater+saltwater&searchscope=image%2Cfilm'''

Some modern Muslims have tried to reconcile the relevant verses with natural phenomena, including estuaries meeting the sea, and different seas having different salt levels. However critics do not believe the verses accurately describe this, and actually conflicts with the description as will be stated in the article. When a fresh water river flows into the sea or ocean, there is a transition region in between. This transition region is called an estuary where the fresh water remains temporarily separated from the salt water. However, this separation is not absolute, is not permanent, and the different salinity levels between the two bodies of water eventually homogenize. The Qur'an, by contrast, suggests that there is a separation between two seas, one salty and one fresh water, maintained by some sort of divine barrier placed between them.   

We are told that there are two seas ("al-baḥrayni, ٱلْبَحْرَيْنِ"), one freshwater (palatable and sweet), and one seawater (salt and bitter), and that there is a barrier that it is forbidden to be pass, implying that they will ''never'' be passed.  

{{Quote|{{Quran|25|53}}|It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed.}}Q55:22 quoted below states that coral emerge from both seas. However, coral are found only in salt water oceans, and exposure to freshwater leads to coral bleaching.<ref>[https://ocean.si.edu/ocean-life/invertebrates/corals-and-coral-reefs ''Corals and Coral Reefs''] - Smithsonian Institution website</ref>{{Quote|{{Quran|55|19-22}}|He released the two seas, meeting [side by side]; Between them is a barrier [so] neither of them transgresses. So which of the favors of your Lord would you deny? From both of them emerge pearl and coral.}}And again in Q35:12 we are told the two seas with one being freshwater (palatable and sweet), and one seawater (salt and bitter). But from both come fresh meat (presumably fish) and ornaments to wear come from both (presumably coral and pearl as mentioned above in verse Q 55:22).

The full story of Moses ad Al-Khidr can be found lower in the page for context.

<big>(((EDITORS: Are you able to add the picture of figure 4 in the quote box below from the website please?')))</big>  

{{Quote|{{cite web| url=https://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-e.htm | title=From A Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam. E) The Quran on Seas and Rivers. islam-guide.com.}}|Modern science has discovered that in estuaries, where fresh (sweet) and salt water meet, the situation is somewhat different from what is found in places where two seas meet. It has been discovered that what distinguishes fresh water from salt water in estuaries is a pycnocline zone with a marked density discontinuity separating the two layers. This partition (zone of separation) has a different salinity from the fresh water and from the salt water.<b> (see Figure 4)

Figure 4: Longitudinal section showing salinity (parts per thousand ‰) in an estuary. We can see here the partition

Critics point to issue's with inserting this is a scientific miracle (and even scientifically accurate):

# This description also seems to imply there is no mixing between them at all, and could just as easily be written by someone believing that someone incorrectly believin<nowiki/>g this.

A deeper analysis can be found on the now defunct and archived former (''more polemical'') Wikiislam website' page on scientific miracles ''[https://archive.wikiislam.net/wiki/Meeting_of_Fresh_and_Salt_Water_in_the_Quran Meeting of Fresh and Salt Water in the Quran].''  

# If the mixing zones isn't part of either 'sea' being mentioned but a 'barrier', then there are arguably<nowiki/> 3 bodies of water in this, and the language could reflect the m<nowiki/>ixing zone by stating that one of them is made of both sweet and salty water (brackish water<ref>[https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/education/tutorial_estuaries/est01_whatis.html#:~:text=The%20mixture%20of%20seawater%20and,%2C%20weather%2C%20or%20other%20factors. ''What is an Estuary?''] National Ocean Service. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration</ref>). This also would separate it from th<nowiki/>e other specific seas being referred to as we will discuss in the next section.

<big>(((EDITORS: Are you able to add the picture of figure 13 in the quote box below from the website please?')))</big>

{{Quote|{{cite web| url=https://www.islam-guide.com/ch1-1-e.htm | title=From A Brief Illustrated Guide to Understanding Islam. E) The Quran on Seas and Rivers. islam-guide.com.}}|Modern Science has discovered that in the places where two different seas meet, there is a barrier between them.  This barrier divides the two seas so that each sea has its own temperature, salinity, and density.  For example, Mediterranean sea water is warm, saline, and less dense, compared to Atlantic ocean water.  When Mediterranean sea water enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill, it moves several hundred kilometres into the Atlantic at a depth of about 1000 meters with its own warm, saline, and less dense characteristics.  The Mediterranean water stabilizes at this depth <b>(see figure 13).

Figure 13 (Click here to enlarge)

Figure 13: The Mediterranean sea water as it enters the Atlantic over the Gibraltar sill with its own warm, saline, and less dense characteristics, because of the barrier that distinguishes between them.  Temperatures are in degrees Celsius (C°). (Marine Geology, Kuenen, p. 43, with a slight enhancement.)</b>  (Click on the image to enlarge it.)}}

* Again, using the definite particle 'al' and barrier between them implies this is for two specific seas, while this phenomena occurs in many places, even the North Atlantic, South Atlantic the Pacific Oceans have different salt levels.<ref>Joseph L. Reid, [https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/0146631361900442 On the temperature, salinity, and density differences between the Atlantic and Pacific oceans in the upper kilometre,] Deep Sea Research (1953), Volume 7, Issue 4, 1961, Pages 265-275, ISSN 0146-6313, <nowiki>https://doi.org/10.1016/0146-6313(61)90044-2</nowiki></ref> And there are more examples of aquatic sills<ref>[https://www.britannica.com/science/sill Sill.] Geology. Science & Tech. Britannica Entry.</ref>, with some notable examples given [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aquatic_sill here] - which does not match a single specific case as the definite article used in the Quran suggests. For vertically mixed zones where salinity changes rapidly, a pycnocline zone, and more specifically, a halocline zone<ref>''[https://www.britannica.com/science/halocline Halocline.]'' Oceanography. Science & Tech. Britannia Entry.</ref>, is always a mixture of fresh water and salt water - in fact it is a product of their mixing.  

There is another interpretation for this verse which critics argue is the only one to accurately fit this verse on a literal plain reading, which is discussed below. This fits a prevalent antiquity (and pre-antiquity) view that was present across the region, and also held in biblical cosmology and later Christian/Jewish exegesis at the time of Mohammad, that this refers to a somewhat magical cosmic ocean surrounding the Earth.

Similarly in Greek mythology, the world was surrounded by Oceanus, the world-ocean of classical antiquity. Oceanus was personified as the god Titan, whose consort was the aquatic sea goddess Tethys. It was also thought that rainfall was due a third ocean above the "Firmament of the Sky" (a vast reservoir above the firmament of the sky is also described in the Genesis creation narrative). Whether the two seas mentioned in the Qur'an referred to these mythological seas or a more general inviolable barrier between bodies of salt and fresh water, critics argue that the verse in question is scientifically wrong.

The antiquity view is well summarised in Tommaso Tesei's 2015 article '''[https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7817/jameroriesoci.135.1.19 Some Cosmological Notions from Late Antiquity in Q 18:60–65: The Quran in Light of Its Cultural Context]''<nowiki/>', examining the Qur'ans verse on Moses meeting a servant at the meeting of the two seas, which he claims is influenced by a story of Alexander the Great (''see [[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Alexander Romance]]''), which also features in this Surah. The main discussion is on verses:

The full article from Tommaso, which is recommended to read to understand the context, can be read in the link on JSTOR for free by making an account, which provides a full overview.

The story of Moses and his servant is one of four stories in Surah al-Kahf. Modern academic scholarship has identified antecedents of each story in the lore of late antiquity. This particular story is almost unanimously considered to derive from a legend about Alexander the Great and his search for the water of life. For details see the section on the four stories in Surah al-Kahf in the article [[Parallels Between the Qur'an and Late Antique Judeo-Christian Literature]]. The bible itself also contains a sea above the Earth:

The fact that the Qur'an addresses it's audience with the claim of the two (specific not general) seas, without giving more explanation or context about what they are or where, also suggests the initial audience were acquainted with it's meaning. We can see these views were also prevalent in Arabia at the time of Mohammad's preaching as this poem from a contemporary of Muhammad mentions the Earth being settled on the waters:

We can see that the servants knowledge of events to come is so great he is able to teach a prophet as important as Moses, and even become annoyed with him and leave him for questioning him. This kind of knowledge is usually only reserved for God, which although not a direct piece of evidence, fits someone coming from a special sea in the sense they are so supernatural and unlike any other character in the Quran. The verses talking about the two seas also usually appear after important creation events: {{Quran|55|22}} is mentioned just after creating humans and jinn, {{Quran|35|12}} following creation of humans from clay, and {{Quran|27|61}} - a verse before mentions creating the heavens and the Earth; suggesting this is an important part of creation, which two specific but essentially random (as are never identified) seas are not as fitting.

In the two most authoritative hadith collections, we see in Sahih Bukhari that Muhammad is recorded as saying that when going into the seven heavens on a night journey (see [[Buraq]]), the rivers in paradise came to Earth via the Nile and Euphrates. This clearly backs up the idea identified by Tommaso that fresh water comes into Earth via a freshwater cosmic ocean:

From this Quran verse we see the God's throne was on 'the waters' during creation:

Angelika Neuwirth notes that's Tabari's is the interpretation in accordance with the Qur'anic evidence, while other later interpretations (e.g. of different actual seas and metaphorical seas of fresh and salty water discussed below) were created to fit new Greek science.<ref>Cosmology Entry. Space in cosmological context. Encyclopaedia Of The Qur’an. pp. 445-446. Angelika Neuwirth. 2001.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qurtubi Al-Qurtubi], another prominent Sunni Scholar also provides this 'sky and Earth sea meeting' view:{{Quote|{{cite web| url=https://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=1&tTafsirNo=5&tSoraNo=25&tAyahNo=53&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=1 | title=Tafsir al-Qurtabi 25:53}}|Ibn Abbas and Ibn Jubayr said: It refers to the ocean of the sky and the ocean of the earth. Ibn Abbas further explained: They meet each other every year, and between them is a barrier decreed by Allah. "And a barrier between them is forbidden to be crossed." It is forbidden for the salty water to mix with the sweet water or for the sweet water to become salty.}}

[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Abbas/18.60 Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs] and [https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/18.60 Tafsir Ibn Al Kathir] commentary on verse 18:60, while not stating this comes from a cosmic ocean (but rather a nearby spring), also relate this story to a rock which contains the fountain of life reviving a dead fish, which pulls motifs from the near-East view of a magical cosmic waters with life giving qualities. ''(Once again it is worth pointing out the obvious that there is no magic fountain or rock on Earth that can revive dead animals for this interpretation to fit).''

This idea of a cosmic ocean also has strong connections to the myth of the Islamic whale (''see: [[The Islamic Whale]]'') swimming in the ocean with Earth on it's back, a view held by most major traditional Islamic scholars on their Qur'an commentaries such as Al-Tabari, Ibn Kathir, Al-Razi, Al Qurtubi etc. The prominent Shia scholar Al-Qummi (d. 919 C.E) also talks of the cosmic ocean the sun, moon and stars are in.

{{Quote|[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/25.51 Tafsir Ibn Kathir on Verse 25:51]|(And it is He Who has let free the two seas, this is palatable and sweet, and that is salty and bitter;) means, He has created the two kinds of water, sweet and salty. The sweet water is like that in rivers, springs and wells, which is fresh, sweet, palatable water. This was the view of Ibn Jurayj and of Ibn Jarir, and this is the meaning without a doubt, <b>for nowhere in creation is there a sea which is fresh and sweet.</b>}}

{{Quote|{{cite web| url=https://scholarworks.boisestate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1116&context=history_facpubs | title=In God's Eyes: The Sacrality of the Seas in the Islamic Cartographic Vision | author=Karen C.  Pinto | publisher=ESPACIO, TIEMPO Y FORMA Serie VII · historia del arte (n. época) | date=2017}}|...The crossing of this multivalent encircling sea is dangerous and forbidden to ordinary people because it separates the mundane earth from the heavenly cosmos. Only exceptional humans like Dhū ’l-Qarnayn (Alexander the Great), Khiḍr (the mythical green man), King Solomon and the perfect Sufi who has succeeded in extinguishing his individualistic identity can attempt such a crossing.

Images of this can be seen for free in her 2017 article [https://scholarworks.boisestate.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1116&context=history_facpubs ''In God's Eyes: The Sacrality of the Seas in the Islamic Cartographic Vision''] on P56 and P57.  

 

* [https://atheism-vs-islam.com/index.php/scientific-mistakes-in-the-revelation/139-the-rain-model-in-muhammad-s-mind-covering-the-entire-islamic-cosmology,-including-the-flat-earth-concept The Rain Model in Muhammad's Mind] - ''an article on Islam Vs Atheism.com covering this topic and other water cycle related verses in the Quran and hadith''

* [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Voh0xLLUw&t=105s Waters that Never mix] - ''YouTube video''