User talk:MyMagics: Difference between revisions

Mamta_Kulkarni_-_Conversion_to_Islam and Hans_Raj_Hans_-_Conversion_to_Islam

If the story can be confirmed it would be great but I think this needs further investigation. According to Wikipedia, she did convert to Islam. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mamta_Kulkarni

Usually they dont accept sources that are not true (in this case they provided two sources). I dont see anything about this on their talk page. This will need more sources to really confirm if this was true or false. Do you have any additional sources? Our other similar pages provide lots of proof and that is confirmed with the fact that there is no mention of their conversion to Islam on their Wikipedia pages. --Axius (talk | contribs) 09:29, 18 March 2014 (PDT)

Another relevant link [1] so I think the status of this conversion is disputed, not confirmed. It can only be considered as confirmed if reliable sources have reported it (atleast one, and multiple if possible). --Axius (talk | contribs) 09:48, 18 March 2014 (PDT)

Hey Axius, That whole nonsense was added by some apologist[2], not even a month ago. You can ask wikipedians on teahouse[3], if you want quick help. Someone removed that whole thing. MyMagics (talk) 10:29, 18 March 2014 (PDT)

That page has been vandalized many times, see [4], [5], .. But removed everytime as well [6], [7]. See.

I think there are several issues with this page and it should be deleted.

1. She is not really notable (I had no idea who she was until today) and there are hundreds of similar claims.

2. There isn't really much of an article. We can't separate individual sentences into sections, so really all we have is an 8-sentence stub.

3. Both sources cannot be used. The first one is a Hindu site and is not a reliable souce. The second one clearly says "We chanced upon her blog. Can’t be sure if it is really her", and links to a dead blog that no longer exists (#3 is the biggest problem). --Sahab (talk) 11:59, 18 March 2014 (PDT)

Yea, #3, there are no reliable source. They're all blog/misc sites as far as I can see.

MyMagics, the right thing would be to remove that information from Wikipedia and create a section on the talk page there asking people to use reliable sources (her personal website if any, or notable news organizations etc) for that information. Looks like it has been removed now. Check it occasionally to make sure the false rumors are not inserted again.

If you want to take care of this, you can try to contact her through social media or other places (this was linked on another site: [8])) and tell her about the rumors and advise her to arrange an interview with a notable organization/news agency which should publish the interview online. This can then be used on Wikipedia and other places.

Let me know if you need a copy of the article. --Axius (talk | contribs) 15:04, 18 March 2014 (PDT)

You both are correct. There is need of a very specific interview, since it is a Biography of living person. See Hans Raj Hans (Conversion to Islam), if it is fine. MyMagics (talk) 19:09, 18 March 2014 (PDT)

I havent looked at this new Hans article yet and will do so soon.

Sahab (could you check your mail first), there are about 95,000 results for this actress for her name and Islam [9] so there are lots of rumours about this going on. According to Wikipedia, she's a former actress. We can have a stub saying that the rumors are unconfirmed and she has not confirmed this to a notable news organization. The stub will be helpful since people depend on us for deciding whether these rumors are true or not. When they see they are unconfirmed it might help stop the spread of the rumor. We can have a stub on that or maybe put these misc people on a page or keep it deleted - its up to you. --Axius (talk | contribs) 19:41, 18 March 2014 (PDT)

Yes, this paper[10] is good source, she has denied that she got got married. The actual theme of conversion. So it makes rest of the story(about conversion) baseless already.

That's it! Here we are.. Have a look at her own facebook's post:-

"Because of my silence even this part has become very talk of the town.First i read and asked by many, about me marrying someone in USA.Some say i got 2 kids etc,etc. But i never married to no one neither i am still married to anyone.Second about me being married to Vicki Goswami/ and him converting into Muslim so do i become too. First i am still Hindu neither Vicki Goswami has converted to Muslim. it would be shame on me after attaining my self and have written in detail in my book and also on my blog and after realizing ‘“GOD IS ONE"’ to change or convert into any religion or in my capacity to make someone change his/her religion would be like an dirty joke as this is not human-beings work leave that on God." [11] MyMagics (talk) 20:04, 18 March 2014 (PDT)

Where is the proof that this Facebook page actually belongs to her? It could be anyone. That Hindustan Times link is acceptable though. --Sahab (talk) 00:16, 19 March 2014 (PDT)

Revising my previous opinion, I think the Hans Raj Hans page can be saved, but it will need to be completely rewritten and expanded to be suitable for the site. I'm willing to fix it, but MyMagics, you will have to fix the citations for Hans Raj Hans (Conversion to Islam) before I do this. You can read how to cite sources using WikiIslam:Citing Sources. This will have to be done because we expect editors to ensure their contributions do not require unnecessary cleanup by others.

Concerning the Mamta Kulkarni (Conversion to Islam) page, Axius' idea about a stub separate from our "Conversion to Islam" pages is a good idea if we cannot confirm this as false. We could just point out that there are no reliable sources that claim it and she has not acknowledged it. But I think we should move onto that in more detail after we have first fixed the Hans Raj Hans page (the issues concerning the Mamta Kulkarni page are more complex). --Sahab (talk) 08:03, 19 March 2014 (PDT)

MyMagics, I have moved both pages to the site sandbox URLs (WikiIslam:Sandbox/Mamta Kulkarni (Conversion to Islam) & WikiIslam:Sandbox/Hans Raj Hans (Conversion to Islam)). You can fix the citations there and once it's rewritten I'll move it back and we can add it to our list of new articles. --Sahab (talk) 08:08, 19 March 2014 (PDT)

For M Kulkarni, hopefully more evidence can be found. The facebook posts are pretty powerful (if it can be confirmed by another source its hers, although I'm sure it is). Some of them (Sep 2013) have her talking about Indian gods/goddess/spiritual leaders and them being an inspiration etc. I'll try to search for some more evidence later.

MyMagics, it would be great if additional evidence can be found which will make the page stronger. I know that if she knew about this page she would appreciate it as its trying to stop those rumors that she has tried to clarify herself. -Axius (talk | contribs) 20:09, 19 March 2014 (PDT)

Hi MyMagics. Are you going to fix those citations soon? Please let us know. --Sahab (talk) 10:42, 23 March 2014 (PDT)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Filled all references of Hans Raj Hans (Conversion to Islam). [12] confirm that facebook of mamta kulkarni. MyMagics (talk) 07:07, 24 March 2014 (PDT)

Oh, great! Thanks for that. Thought we lost you there. Okay, I will neaten up the Hans Raj Hans page soon and add it to the new articles list here. Then we'll take a look at the other. --Sahab (talk) 07:47, 24 March 2014 (PDT)

Could you add the author and publication names to those citations? These fields are in the Minimal Parameters. Could you also change the formatting of the dates? So 20 February 2014 should be written as February 20, 2014 (this is all explained in the WikiIslam:Citing Sources page I directed you to a few days ago). Thanks! --Sahab (talk) 08:52, 24 March 2014 (PDT)

I'm a little disappointed. Editors should not have to prod other editors several times to complete a single task of clean-up. And when editors get around to fixing it they shouldn't really rush it and leave it half done. Please do read that WikiIslam:Citing Sources (which you clearly have not up to this point). I've archived all the pages this time and fixed the errors, so it's okay for now. And thanks for all the research you put into both pages. I will work on this page over the next few days. --Sahab (talk) 10:40, 26 March 2014 (PDT)

I've found a secondary source for Navraj refuting the reports of his father converting to Islam ("Singer Hans Raj Hans embraces Islam?", Zee News, February 20, 2014 (archived), http://zeenews.india.com/entertainment/music/singer-hans-raj-hans-embraces-islam_151012.html. ) Also wanted to confirm, is Yuvraj Hans' original Facebook post in Punjabi? --Sahab (talk) 11:06, 26 March 2014 (PDT)

I added some stuff for Mamta's page. There are some remaining cite links that have to be fixed. I wish she gave a reliable news organization an interview and denied the conversion and all its claims in clear words.

MyMagic probably hasnt signed in yet or thought its too difficult to fix the citations or just decided to skip doing that for now.

In any case, MyMagic, do you think you could fix the remaining links on Mamta's page? [13]. Sahab has fixed the links for Hans' page [14]. For Mamta's page, they are links #1,2,4,5,6. I fixed links 3,7,8,9,10. --Axius (talk | contribs) 19:04, 26 March 2014 (PDT)

I fixed the URLs for Mamta Kulkarni. --Axius (talk | contribs) 18:39, 27 March 2014 (PDT)

┌────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────┘Both articles have been indexed by Google now (I searched for the page titles [e.g. mamta kulkarni wikiislam] and they were there) and should start getting regular traffic in a few months (the Sunita Williams page took that same amount of time). --Axius (talk | contribs) 12:17, 5 April 2014 (PDT)

Views already starting to come in for both Mamta Kulkarni and Hans Raj, great work! --Axius (talk | contribs) 13:06, 6 April 2014 (PDT)

Outstanding Issues

Mamta Kulkarni (Conversion to Islam)

I guess this article is all that it can be right now. Should it be finalized or should we look for more links? --Axius (talk | contribs) 19:22, 31 March 2014 (PDT)

Since we have a ref proving that Facebook page is hers, I think it's definitely enough to start finalizing. --Sahab (talk) 20:58, 31 March 2014 (PDT)

Just a note for MyMagics; please do not misrepresent sources again. We take things like that very seriously here. You wrote "the story was that Kulkarni married converted to Islam along with her boyfriend Vicky Goswami, so that her boyfriend could be released from jail", but that is not what the sources you cite say at all. They actually imply she converted to marry him, not to set him free (because he had already done that by himself). --Sahab (talk) 05:52, 2 April 2014 (PDT)

I did a search myself and found a news article claiming what you wrote[15]. However, that report brings up more problems. It states that:

"A life sentence in Dubai is in effect 25 years, but prisoners can apply for early release on various grounds. Apart from good conduct, these include learning to recite passages from the Qu'ran or converting to Islam."

You claim:

"There is no provision in UAE's law that if somebody convert to Islam, their sentence will be lowered."

Do you have a reliable source we can use to confirm that? This is quite a major issue because the article will obviously be different depending on which of those statements is true. Thanks. --Sahab (talk) 07:13, 2 April 2014 (PDT)

According to Wikipedia's article "Freedom of religion in the United Arab Emirates":

"A list of Muslim converts is published annually. Prisoners who convert to Islam often receive a reduction in their sentences. In Dubai, prisoners (other than those facing life sentences) who memorize all or part of the Qur'an can receive a reduction in their sentences or a pardon, depending on the length of sentence and the number of sections memorized. The ruler of the Emirate of Ajman offers a cash award for prisoners who memorize all or part of the Qur'an."

Wikipedia may not be the best source, but in the absence of any other, it will have to do. It also sounds about right.

These aren't the only 2 problems with your contributions. You also state:

"After 1-2 months, Kulkarni was interviewed, it was her first interview in last few years. Kulkarni told that she never converted to Islam, neither she got married"

I don't see anywhere in the sources you provided or in the BollywoodJournalist interview a denial concerning a conversion to Islam.

What you are doing here with sources and how you present them is akin to Islam propaganda. --Sahab (talk) 11:08, 2 April 2014 (PDT)

Hans Raj Hans (Conversion to Islam)

Hi MyMagics. The Hans Raj Hans (Conversion to Islam) is now finished. Thanks for bringing this to our attention. However, note the differences between your original submission and then what we have now. They are completely different articles. Not a single word from your original submission remains and every aspect of it has been tidied up and expanded on (and I'm not referring to copy-editing, but details, explanations and analysis). I say this so that you know what you should be aiming for when creating articles. You have obviously viewed our other pages on fake conversions such as Sunita Williams (Conversion to Islam) so really should have been aiming for this standard from the beginning.

Anyhow, could you please answer the following questions for us?

1. What are the news stories about in the image posted under Yuvraj Hans' Facebook post? Are they claiming Hans converted or not?
2. Are Navraj and Yuvraj, Hans Raj Hans' only children?
3. You wrote that Hans Raj Hans rejected the claims of a conversion on February 21, but there are news reports available (including one you yourself used as a reference) that are dated February 20. Am I missing something here or was that an error on your part? Thanks. --Sahab (talk) 03:29, 30 March 2014 (PDT)

Obviously he rejected the conversion news. If he will keep talking about it, it may cause further suspecion. In fact, his sons(he got 2, not more) was enough. MyMagics (talk) 07:51, 12 April 2014 (PDT)

Regarding #1, do you know the headlines for the newspapers shown in the Facebook post? Are these newspaper headlines denials of the conversion, or are they propagating the false rumor?

Could you also respond to the #2 and #3 points that Sahab made? Regarding #3, Sahab is asking about the date of the incident. --Axius (talk | contribs) 08:31, 12 April 2014 (PDT)

Thanks for the 2 articles

You guys have done a great job with both articles. Thanks a lot! Sahab and Axius, God bless you! MyMagics (talk) 07:51, 12 April 2014 (PDT)

And thanks to you as well for taking the initiative to start the articles (even though it was not much more than a start). Sahab did most of the work. We have started getting traffic on both pages. The traffic will increase as more and more people link to it. According to traffic data, the false conversion story of Sunita Williams is the one of the 5 most popular pages on the site.

If you hear of any other popular false conversion stories that are going around on the internet let us know. At the least we can put it on the to-do list to create those articles. --Axius (talk | contribs) 08:27, 12 April 2014 (PDT)

Leonel Messi

Muslims have rumored that he converted into Islam.

What you think about it? MyMagics (talk) 20:02, 25 October 2014 (PDT)

Not sure at the moment how famous he is and I haven't looked into it. His name and Islam does bring up a lot of results but I dont know how many of those are related to the false conversion. [16] but many are related to it. Do you know of any links or references? Mamta Kulkarni's page by the way is now a top 10 traffic page. --Axius (talk | contribs) 05:07, 26 October 2014 (PDT)

New fake conversions

Lindsay Lohan :-

http://blog.sfgate.com/dailydish/2015/05/15/lindsay-lohans-rep-plays-down-islam-conversion-rumors/

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/showbiz/442268/Lindsay-Lohan-convert-Islam

Liam Neeson

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/liam-neeson-not-converting-islam-article-1.2076302

John Brennan

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/02/11/rumor-check-ex-fbi-agent-claims-obamas-cia-nominee-is-really-a-secret-muslim-recruited-by-saudis/

http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/topics/john-brennan

http://www.dcclothesline.com/2015/08/27/cia-director-john-brennan-is-a-muslim-convert/

Pretty sure that a lot can be written now. MyMagics (talk) 00:16, 8 November 2015 (PST)

I made a to-do list [17] linking to this section. --Axius (talk | contribs) 04:06, 8 November 2015 (PST)