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User:CPO675/Sandbox 1: Difference between revisions
→Other Traditions
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==== Intro ==== | ==== Intro ==== | ||
Alongside the main consensus from Biblical Scholars/Historians that Jesus was an eschatological preacher in the early first century AD who believed the Earth would end during his time (and therefore couldn't be the Muslim Jesus), there are many other of the most considered authentic teachings of Jesus that clash with Islam; | Alongside the main consensus from Biblical Scholars/Historians that Jesus was an eschatological preacher in the early first century AD who believed the Earth would end during his time (and therefore couldn't be the Muslim Jesus), there are many other of the most considered authentic teachings of Jesus that clash with Islam; in contrast with the Qur'anic principle of Messenger Uniformitarianism; where all messengers preach essentially the same thing with only minor variations.<ref>Durie, Mark. ''The Qur’an and Its Biblical Reflexes: Investigations into the Genesis of a Religion (pp. 135-142) (Kindle Edition pp. 281-294)''. 5.3 Messenger Uniformitarianism. Lexington Books. 2018.</ref> | ||
{{Quote|{{Quran|41|43}}|Not is said to you except what was said to the Messengers before you. Indeed, your Lord (is) Possessor (of) forgiveness, and Possessor (of) penalty painful.}}{{Quote|{{Quran|2|285}}|The Apostle and the faithful have faith in what has been sent down to him from his Lord. Each [of them] has faith in Allah, His angels, His scriptures and His apostles. [They declare,] ‘We make no distinction between any of His apostles.’ And they say, ‘We hear and obey. Our Lord, forgive us, and toward You is the return.’}} | {{Quote|{{Quran|41|43}}|Not is said to you except what was said to the Messengers before you. Indeed, your Lord (is) Possessor (of) forgiveness, and Possessor (of) penalty painful.}}{{Quote|{{Quran|2|285}}|The Apostle and the faithful have faith in what has been sent down to him from his Lord. Each [of them] has faith in Allah, His angels, His scriptures and His apostles. [They declare,] ‘We make no distinction between any of His apostles.’ And they say, ‘We hear and obey. Our Lord, forgive us, and toward You is the return.’}} | ||
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While the large differences between the New Testament / Gospels / Christian Jesus and the [[Isa al-Masih (Jesus Christ)|Muslim Jesus]] are clear to anyone who has read both the Qur'an and NT, (which takes from apocrypha considered inauthentic by NT scholars,<ref>Sanders, E.. ''The Historical Figure of Jesus (pp. 78-79)''. Penguin Books Ltd. Kindle Edition. | While the large differences between the New Testament / Gospels / Christian Jesus and the [[Isa al-Masih (Jesus Christ)|Muslim Jesus]] are clear to anyone who has read both the Qur'an and NT, (which takes from apocrypha considered inauthentic by NT scholars,<ref>Sanders, E.. ''The Historical Figure of Jesus (pp. 78-79)''. Penguin Books Ltd. Kindle Edition. | ||
..(Gnosticism was a world view that held everything material to be evil; the god who created the world was a bad god, and the creation was wicked. Gnostics who were also Christians held that the good God had sent Jesus to redeem people’s souls, not their bodies, and that Jesus was not a real human being. The Christians who objected to these views finally declared them heretical.) ''I share the general scholarly view that very, very little in the apocryphal gospels could conceivably go back to the time of Jesus. They are legendary and mythological. Of all the apocryphal material, only some of the sayings in the Gospel of Thomas are worth consideration.'' This does not mean that we can make a clean division: the historical four gospels versus the legendary apocryphal gospels. There are legendary traits in the four gospels in the New Testament, and there is also a certain amount of newly created material (as we saw just above)..</ref> and [[Parallels Between the Qur'an and Late Antique Judeo-Christian Literature|later Christian thought/writings]] ) are too large to list here, and have lead to many Muslims arguing for biblical corruption based on theological grounds [textual | ..(Gnosticism was a world view that held everything material to be evil; the god who created the world was a bad god, and the creation was wicked. Gnostics who were also Christians held that the good God had sent Jesus to redeem people’s souls, not their bodies, and that Jesus was not a real human being. The Christians who objected to these views finally declared them heretical.) ''I share the general scholarly view that very, very little in the apocryphal gospels could conceivably go back to the time of Jesus. They are legendary and mythological. Of all the apocryphal material, only some of the sayings in the Gospel of Thomas are worth consideration.'' This does not mean that we can make a clean division: the historical four gospels versus the legendary apocryphal gospels. There are legendary traits in the four gospels in the New Testament, and there is also a certain amount of newly created material (as we saw just above)..</ref> and [[Parallels Between the Qur'an and Late Antique Judeo-Christian Literature|later Christian thought/writings]] ) are too large to list here, and have lead to many Muslims arguing for biblical corruption based on textual and theological grounds [though textual don't affect most early & authentic traditions] in general, which is a disputed idea in traditional Islamic thought (cite - Reynolds article. See also: [[Corruption of Previous Scriptures]] & [[Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Corruption of Previous Scriptures]]) a summary of some of the most likely authentic traditions from Biblical historians (using historical-critical methods not Christian or Muslim theologians - more likely to be true and not taken from bias or proving or disproving Islam but historical context, widespread across sources, early - cite Allison explanation - Why - different to time and context, unlikely to be fabricated later by Christians, across all early sources etc.) are shown here as an example of the clashes. [Point: not arguing against Christian Jesus - but secular historians one] | ||
==== Examples ==== | ==== Examples ==== | ||