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Lightyears (talk | contribs) (→The Formation of Bone and Clothing with Flesh: new argument noting that some of the cartilage models don't even exist yet when other areas are growing muscles) |
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Here is the scientific evidence for the contemporaneous development of cartilage/bone and muscles. | Here is the scientific evidence for the contemporaneous development of cartilage/bone and muscles. | ||
A very detailed account of musculo-skeletal development in the human limb by clinical-geneticist Robert Jan Galjaard can be read online.<ref>Galjaard, R.J.H. [http://repub.eur.nl/res/pub/10474/030924_Galjaard,%20Robert-Jan%20Harmen.pdf Mapping Studies of Congenital Limb Anomalies]. Ablasserdam: Haveka, B.V., 2003, page 16 [http://www.webcitation.org/6lFwBQq9z webcitation archive link]</ref> It details that muscle precursor cells migrate from the somites into the limb buds (ca. day 26), well before the condensing core of mesenchyme has started to chondrify into cartilage bone models in the upper part of the upper limb (ca. day 37), followed by the lower part (ca. day 41). The myoblasts have grouped into distinct masses by this stage and are differentiating into muscle fibres. The upper limbs later start to ossify (ca. day 54). Chondrification of mesenchyme, the grouping of myogenic masses, and ossification all occur in a proximal-distal order (upper to lower part of each limb). | A very detailed account of musculo-skeletal development in the human limb by clinical-geneticist Robert Jan Galjaard can be read online.<ref>Galjaard, R.J.H. [http://repub.eur.nl/res/pub/10474/030924_Galjaard,%20Robert-Jan%20Harmen.pdf Mapping Studies of Congenital Limb Anomalies]. Ablasserdam: Haveka, B.V., 2003, page 16 [http://www.webcitation.org/6lFwBQq9z webcitation archive link]</ref> It details that muscle precursor cells migrate from the somites into the limb buds (ca. day 26), well before the condensing core of mesenchyme has started to chondrify into cartilage bone models in the upper part of the upper limb (ca. day 37), followed by the lower part (ca. day 41). The myoblasts have grouped into distinct masses by this stage and are differentiating into muscle fibres. The upper limbs later start to ossify (ca. day 54). Chondrification of mesenchyme, the grouping of myogenic masses, and ossification all occur in a proximal-distal order (upper to lower part of each limb). The digits of the hands only start to chondrify ca. day 51. | ||
Professor Peter Law confirms that myoblasts are found in the limb buds day 26.<ref>Law, Peter et al., ''Pioneering Human Myoblast Genome Therapy as a Platform Technology of Regenerative Medicine.'' In: Stem Cell Therapy. Erik Greer (Editor). Nova Science Publishers, Inc. 2006. Page 3.</ref> | Professor Peter Law confirms that myoblasts are found in the limb buds day 26.<ref>Law, Peter et al., ''Pioneering Human Myoblast Genome Therapy as a Platform Technology of Regenerative Medicine.'' In: Stem Cell Therapy. Erik Greer (Editor). Nova Science Publishers, Inc. 2006. Page 3.</ref> | ||
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Even if we were to accept that the Qur'an was only referring to precursors of bone and not bone itself, even though it used the Arabic word for bone ('itham), and not cartilage (ghurdoof), the embryology is still wrong. Even if, with further and unjustifiable generosity, we suppose that the Qur'an means only the very beginning of the formation of the cartilage (chondrification) before they are in any sense complete shapes and the beginning of the formation of muscles, even this happens at the same stage (around day 41). Going back earlier still, it can even be pointed out that the precursors of muscles (myoblasts) and precursors to the cartilage (mesenchyme) are present in the limb bud as soon as it arises. | Even if we were to accept that the Qur'an was only referring to precursors of bone and not bone itself, even though it used the Arabic word for bone ('itham), and not cartilage (ghurdoof), the embryology is still wrong. Even if, with further and unjustifiable generosity, we suppose that the Qur'an means only the very beginning of the formation of the cartilage (chondrification) before they are in any sense complete shapes and the beginning of the formation of muscles, even this happens at the same stage (around day 41). Going back earlier still, it can even be pointed out that the precursors of muscles (myoblasts) and precursors to the cartilage (mesenchyme) are present in the limb bud as soon as it arises. | ||
Of course, the natural reading of verse 23:14 is that the bones have some sort of meaningful shape, and can meaningfully be called bones. This is certainly not the case when the condensed mesenchyme has merely started to produce cartilage. Furthermore, the natural reading of verse 23:14 is that all the bones have some meaningful presence worthy of the label 'bones' before Allah clothes them with flesh. | Of course, the natural reading of verse 23:14 is that the bones have some sort of meaningful shape, and can meaningfully be called bones. This is certainly not the case when the condensed mesenchyme has merely started to produce cartilage. Furthermore, the natural reading of verse 23:14 is that all the bones have some meaningful presence worthy of the label 'bones' before Allah clothes them with flesh. As noted in the evidence above, fingers only start to even chondrify after muscle formation is already well underway in the upper part of the limbs. | ||
We have more evidence that 23:14 refers to things already recognisable as bones being clothed with muscles or flesh elsewhere in the Qur'an. Verse 2:259 uses the same Arabic words as does 23:14 for 'bones', 'clothed' and 'flesh' to describe the resurrection of a donkey which had been dead for 100 years. The main embryology passages, such as verse 22:5 (see quote above) suggests that embryological development has similarities with resurrection. | We have more evidence that 23:14 refers to things already recognisable as bones being clothed with muscles or flesh elsewhere in the Qur'an. Verse 2:259 uses the same Arabic words as does 23:14 for 'bones', 'clothed' and 'flesh' to describe the resurrection of a donkey which had been dead for 100 years. The main embryology passages, such as verse 22:5 (see quote above) suggests that embryological development has similarities with resurrection. |