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User talk:Saggy: Difference between revisions
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::Saggy, I would also like to know how you made that deduction and add to this query. Recently you interpreted the Horseman thing and now this certain one as well. Its good that you're exploring new verses and hadiths but there is a problem in how you're interpreting text. If you dont understand a certain text, you can ask us on your talk or on the [[forum]] page. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 04:34, 6 April 2014 (PDT) | ::Saggy, I would also like to know how you made that deduction and add to this query. Recently you interpreted the Horseman thing and now this certain one as well. Its good that you're exploring new verses and hadiths but there is a problem in how you're interpreting text. If you dont understand a certain text, you can ask us on your talk or on the [[forum]] page. --[[User:Axius|Axius]] <span style="font-size:88%">([[User_talk:Axius|talk]] <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[Special:Contributions/Axius|contribs]])</span> 04:34, 6 April 2014 (PDT) | ||
::Suppose you wanted to say the same thing, no matter if it sounds good or mediocre: "A place as small as X is better than that on which Y happens." Of course "that" could refer to "place " better than to "X". But if X is not something typically ''small,'' what is the point in saying it? ''Bow'' must have the other meaning (which is backed up by that sun travelling-prostrating and permission verse) Come on, u could have said as small as... anything. Why bow? You can think of several adjectives on hearing the word bow, except "small." Whether this was narrated at war (single endeavor) or some other hadith sounds partly similar, does not matter. That could be a change of the simile made in the first place. Is a place anything like a bow? The sun rises and sets? Not at all. Only a person who thinks the sun runs on a semicircle over the other place(earth) would have said "bow." [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 10:53, 6 April 2014 (PDT) | ::Suppose you wanted to say the same thing, no matter if it sounds good or mediocre: "A place as small as X is better than that on which Y happens." Of course "that" could refer to "place " better than to "X". But if X is not something typically ''small,'' what is the point in saying it? ''Bow'' must have the other meaning (which is backed up by that sun travelling-prostrating and permission verse) Come on, u could have said as small as... anything. Why bow? You can think of several adjectives on hearing the word bow, except "small." Whether this was narrated at war (single endeavor) or some other hadith sounds partly similar, does not matter. That could be a change of the simile made in the first place. Is a place anything like a bow? The sun rises and sets? Not at all. Only a person who thinks the sun runs on a semicircle over the other place(earth) would have said "bow." [[User:Saggy|Saggy]] ([[User talk:Saggy|talk]]) 10:53, 6 April 2014 (PDT) | ||
:::'''"But if X is not something typically ''small,'' what is the point in saying it?"''' | |||
:::A bow is small in comparison to the earth or in comparison to a lot of things. | |||
:::'''"''Bow'' must have the other meaning"''' | |||
:::You only assert that it must, but you haven't provided any convincing reasons why. | |||
:::'''"Come on, u could have said as small as... anything. Why bow?"''' | |||
:::Because they were warriors and Muhammad was describing where they would go when they die in battle. Is that really too much of a stretch? No, it makes perfect sense. In fact it's what most people would get from reading that verse. Your explanation just comes of as desperate. It is things like that which allow them to claim critics "twist" everything out-of-context. | |||
:::'''"You can think of several adjectives on hearing the word bow, except "small.""''' | |||
:::Words such as "dying" and "in battle" spring to mind. And I don't agree with your "except small" comment. A bow is small in comparison to the world, so there is no valid reason why it could not be described as "small". | |||
:::'''"Whether this was narrated at war (single endeavor) or some other hadith sounds partly similar, does not matter."''' | |||
:::Of course it does. That is what we call "context". Context is what helps us understand the meanings behind text. It is what Muslim apologists usually ignore, and you apparently want us to do the same. And of course what "some other hadith sounds partly similar" says is important. It's important because it is describing the exact same event, but via a different narrator. Even the one hadith you are misinterpreting debunks your ideas when read fully (refer to my original post)' | |||
:::'''"Is a place anything like a bow?"''' | |||
:::This is where your reading comprehension fails you, or you are simply resorting to strawmen arguments to support your claim. The hadith does not claim any place is like a bow, it is referring to the size of the bow. You don't need me to explain that to you. It is written in plain English for everyone to see (i.e. "as '''small''' as a bow"). | |||
:::"Only a person who thinks the sun runs on a semicircle over the other place(earth) would have said "bow."" | |||
:::You havn't shown that at all. Your reasoning is convoluted and ignores the obvious meaning. I would suggest sticking to hadiths that are clear errors rather than ones that need your interpretations. [[User:Sahab|--Sahab]] ([[User talk:Sahab|talk]]) 12:10, 6 April 2014 (PDT) | |||