Talk:Scientific Errors in the Quran: Difference between revisions

[Sticky] Instructions for editing this page

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This page is linked often from other websites and should be edited with care.

An error should be included only if it cannot be justified or explained in any way. In other words the error should be obvious. The following points should be noted:

• The error should not be attributable to a translation issue and must be valid for the verse in Arabic (when necessary, Arabic speakers should be consulted)
• The error should be shown in at least 2 translations (Shakir, Yusuf or Pickthall)
• These are the only translations that can be used
• Use the translation which is the most easy to understand.
• The error is obvious and cannot be attributed to "figure of speech". An example is "We will blow up the sky" (this is just an example and may not be a real verse). This should not be listed as an error. A counter-claim may be that they may have been talking about the sun expanding and engulfing the Earth (this will eventually happen). Errors that can be explained by apologists in this way should not be listed.
• Weaker errors can be listed in a separate section at the bottom called "Other Quranic verses" with a note "The following are Quranic verses which may contain figures of speech but are still questionable". For this section, the verses should be listed without any section headings. The reason is that a record of such verses should still be kept but these verses should not be presented as obvious errors. These weaker verses are not as strong as others but they could still be seen as adding to the evidence against the Quran.

Constellations

For my edit here [1]

Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light; [2]

Basically its just saying "However the stars are made, we made them and we arranged them like that", so I agree with Lightyears (talk | contribs) unless Saggy you have any additional stuff to say. --Axius (talk | contribs) 15:13, 15 May 2014 (PDT)

"We arranged them like that" is the mistake. Same as the errors pointed out above it (sun, moon and its phases are made for our timekeeping and stars created for navigation). I wrote the light years to show stars are not where they appear (it may not be needed). Hence constellations are imaginations. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Saggy (talk • contribs) (Remember to sign your comments)

To humans stars have a certain arrangement. Yes that arrangement would change if we were looking it from another place for example the center of the galaxy buy they have an arrangement for people on Earth.

But good job on finding that other verse for the Stars in the lower heaven. Did you find that error verse yourself or you saw it somewhere else? If you saw it yourself, are you going through the Quran systematically chapter by chapter? Thats good. What are you using to browse the Quran, what website? --Axius (talk | contribs) 16:34, 16 May 2014 (PDT)

there are not many errors to find, i have not gone chapter by chapter recently (only for details article). decoration verse was already present.

You didnt yet decide on constel. What I am thinking upon recently is that we look for errors dont we? Then if something is removed, it has to be absolutely correct. Think like that. Is "Allah made constellations" or "mansions" correct? Any one of the two translations can be quoted and then the other explained. Also in 36:39, Moon has mansions (though the word is manzil and not burooj). one more question , if this constelation thing is refutable, doesnt it mean all mythology is true or zodiacs are true? I read this q somewhere. Then Why Islam rejects zodiacs as far as I know? This verse must soon go somewhere: here or the lack of details page or the questions to ask a muslim page. Saggy (talk) 07:30, 17 May 2014 (PDT)

So what website do you use for looking at the Quran? Islam awakened?

"we made constellations" = we arranged the stars like that. If it can be explained its not good to have it on the page. I dont know what the connection is for zodiacs. The verse is only talking about the stars arrangement, not zodiacs. I dont know what Islam says about zodiacs.

The moon verse [3] is just talking about the appearance of the moon. --Axius (talk | contribs) 08:50, 17 May 2014 (PDT)

Some stray translation includes zodiacs. "we arranged the stars" - as i said before, it cannot be explained. In 36:39 what i wanted to show is that moon has mansions. So its another case of faulty cosmology, same is with constellations being called mansions.Saggy (talk) 03:38, 18 May 2014 (PDT)

"The error should not be attributable to a translation issue"

We cannot have the approach that we have to find the translation that includes the 'error' we want to point out. Looking at the all the translations as a whole its clear its talking about the arrangement of the stars, nothing more. --Axius (talk | contribs) 04:52, 18 May 2014 (PDT)

Can you do one thing - just add the Scientific Quran errors to your Sandbox page for now: User:Saggy/Sandbox_-_Issues_with_Quran_and_Hadith. These can be reviewed and added to the main article in the end when you're done. Its more mental work to review them one at a time. It will also be easier for you as you can do what you like in your Sandbox without feeling restricted. --Axius (talk | contribs) 20:09, 18 May 2014 (PDT)