User talk:Lightyears: Difference between revisions

Since you agreed with my take on constellations, how about going ahead with an article on that claim? Will you clear my edits in it when its ready? Saggy (talk) 11:45, 23 May 2014 (PDT)

I do agree on it as a theological issue, so I'd have no issue with an article on that (I think it should mention that it is also a general problem like with continents, mountains taking a long time to form, plants that we eat to evolve etc.). But I've never actually created a new article on here (people have copied a couple of my articles onto here since I made them under the Creative Commons license) so I don't know how or what the protocols are for doing so. I'm sure someone who runs the site (Axius?) could help.Lightyears (talk) 11:53, 23 May 2014 (PDT)

I asked because you check your own edits. First there's a sandbox , then when finished it will be a article and we will link it.Saggy (talk) 13:05, 23 May 2014 (PDT)

Just in case you mean to link to the new article from the scientific errors page, I don't think the link to the article should be put on there (as it's not a scientific error). I just meant that it's fine as a new article. Maybe there are more suitable places to link to it from. If you were to recreate a section on the scientific errors page to put your link to the new article, I'll leave it to others to decide whether to remove it, but I think you'd have to at least write in such a recreated section that this is not strictly a scientific error, but is a theological absurdity/difficulty.Lightyears (talk) 13:22, 23 May 2014 (PDT)

hi Lightyears, a new page can be made through the help page [1] although I believe the Constellation article is a lower priority. A higher priority for us should be to review the Scientific errors page so we can remove the under review template. Thanks for some of your edits in trying to fix some of these errors in that article.

In addition if you have any suggestions for the site of any kind, anything which you think should be done differently, anything you think would be beneficial for the site let me know. You have as much authority on this site as I do. I like for all of us to make decisions as a team. --Axius (talk | contribs) 15:54, 23 May 2014 (PDT)

OK, thanks. I'll let you know if I think of anything Lightyears (talk) 16:48, 23 May 2014 (PDT)

I have something I need to do as of today, so won't be able to do any more editing for the foreseeable future in case any one wonders. Lightyears (talk) 02:17, 24 May 2014 (PDT)

Geocentral Quran documents

Someone emailed us a zip file that contained documents relating to the Geocentral Quran. If you're interested in looking at them let me know through our email and I can forward that link to you. --Axius (talk | contribs) 16:25, 27 May 2014 (PDT)

Your Dhul-Qarnayn article helped a former Muslim

Your article was linked here (post #22). Starts from #16 here, saying:

Once again great job on the Dhul-Qarnayn articles. --Axius (talk | contribs) 13:57, 4 August 2014 (PDT)

Iconoclasm

Appparently, Wikiislam doesn't cover iconoclasm (especially Muhammad's) or say vandalism, in any dedicated page. Can you correct me if wrong? Saggy (talk) 07:52, 18 September 2016 (EDT)

I think you're right. It could make for an interesting and very topical page given events of recent years if there's a decent amount of material to be found in sahih hadiths, maybe also sirat, tafsirs etc. I've no idea how to approve pages or what the processes are for new pages. The best thing for you to do would be to contact the exmna, who I believe have taken over running the site. It looks like Axius and Sahab might have retired as they've been inactive for quite a while now after an immense effort for some years.

You have another interesting sandbox page on claims of evolution that would be worthwhile if it's not already covered. In the first section you should probably also quote 24:45 as it implies that not just the earliest life, but 2 and 4 legged animals (such as birds or cattle) were created from water too, which has no resemblance to sciencific theories. The repeating creation verses are probably resurrection (Muhammad faced a lot of skepticism about resurrection, as the Qur'an records). Jalalayn and ibn Kathir tafsirs for these verses confirm this, though the flood stuff is still worth mentioning too. The article would also benefit from a brief section on the explicit mentions of special creation of Adam that foil attempts to fit human evolution into the Qur'an regardless of how other verses might seem compatible with it. But before going to much more effort it'd be a good idea to get in contact with whoever is running the site now as I don't really want to take on the committment of doing admin such as reviewing and approving stuff and I imagine they probably have a plan for resuming the performance of such tasks in future.Lightyears (talk) 15:58, 18 September 2016 (EDT)

Most of them are busy with their other work. But you can approve changes right? Then we might take the evolution article further. @ Iconoclasm, i have expanded this topic with some hadith. @scientific errors: what do you think about the mountains created in 4 days error [2]? Saggy (talk) 14:29, 22 September 2016 (EDT)

I approved the Iconoclasm hadiths (except one of them for brevity), good stuff. I don't think the mountains one is a strong enough error because the verse talks about a bunch of things, not just the mountains as happening in 4 days.

[3] and [4] say he put the mountains and also the earth was prepared with crops, plants, food etc in 4 days Even this hasn't happened in 4 days in reality. Then there are hadith which specify that mountains were formed in 1 day. The minimum that we could phrase as an error is: "the author of the Quran is unaware of (or has simply ignored) how long mountains take to form," similar to many other paragraphs in that article. Saggy (talk) 14:33, 24 September 2016 (EDT)

I've added 41:9-10 to the Earth and Heavens created in six days section as the mountain stuff is too vague to merit its own section. The Qur'an itself isn't clear on whether the mountains are placed on day 3 or days 3&4 or 1-4. It weakens the page to rely on tafsirs or hadiths to make a specific error claim. I have however pointed out that mountains continue to rise and fall to this day. It now says as much as we can say on this topic for a Qur'an errors page. It already says that the Qur'an is wrong to say that the heavens and Earth were formed in such short time periods, but I've added some additional commentary on the Earth specifically.Lightyears (talk) 19:05, 24 September 2016 (EDT)

Jordanian cartoonist killed just now for making an ISIS and Allah cartoon

I think we should put this on our front page. With Links to news sites.

The second thing I am looking at currently is Umm Qirfa, listed in our tasks. Where shall I prepare my response to the apologists? Saggy (talk) 07:05, 25 September 2016 (EDT)

I saw this awful story too, and I think it makes as all angry. But I think the old admin guys must have made a decision to stop the Islam in the news stuff on the front page (terrorist attacks etc). It was a never ending task, which is covered by other well known sites which people visit if they want to follow such things. I agree with the decision. I think it diversifies too much to make this a news site.

Regarding Umm Qirfa, I recommend putting such things in sandbox and when exmna eventually start doing admin they can look at it with you. If there's just a few more things you want to do I can potentially approve it, but I don't want to be regularly working on this site and reviewing stuff. I'm just doing a bit of a blitz of work here recently while I have a little time and motivation and then I want to forget about it.

There are only a few other things I intend to do in the foreseeable future: revamp the embryology page (I recently revamped geocentrism), some small improvements to flat earth, and possibly a new page providing evidence that the earliest Muslims believed the Earth was flat (which is useful for flat earth in the Qur'an and sun setting in a muddy spring debates where Muslims sometimes claim with weak evidence that they already knew the Earth was round). My interest in Islam is quite low these days so it's only occasionally I feel like doing stuff here and only on topics I'm interested in and knowledgable about (errors in the Qur'an in etc.). That's also why I'm happy to help with your claims of evolution in the Qur'an page if you finish it and want it approved. I also suggest you add these things from your sandbox: Mountains Stabilize the Earth's Rotation About its Axis & Mountains Absorb Some Waves During Earthquakes

to this page if you're finished with those and I'll approve it https://wikiislam.net/wiki/The_Quran_and_Mountains

Lightyears (talk) 08:05, 25 September 2016 (EDT)

WikiIslam:Sandbox/Mosques

I made this new location of interesting hadiths about mosques. do you think it is fit for a QHS? One more topic i want to cover somewhere is torture/punishment in the grave. Saggy (talk) 11:36, 10 October 2016 (EDT)

The torture / punishment in the grave could be interesting and is a suitable topic. Looking at the index list [[5]], the topics seem all to be things that are useful in criticism of Islam. I'm not sure what use hadiths about Mosque building or travelling to mosques have for anyone who might visit this site. Someone clicking the page might wonder, "what point are you trying to make with this page?". Go ahead if you want though, but maybe consider whether the Mosque one is worthwhile.Lightyears (talk) 15:05, 10 October 2016 (EDT)

I find this (relatively) the most important one in that case. Saggy (talk) 15:30, 10 October 2016 (EDT)

Shia quotes

Hi, the previous admins said that adding Shia quotes in a Sunni/general article weakens the article because our online critics can quickly dismiss Shias as non-Muslims and thus laugh at us (lol). How about a separate article for Shia hadith, fiqh, scholar fatwas etc? Saggy (talk) 16:07, 18 October 2016 (EDT)

I think the old admins have a point when Shia quotes are used to make a point about Islam in general, because for Sunnis the Shia evidence may well be irrelevant. But for a page just cataloguing things for reference like the QHS pages, it might be worth making an exception (with some restructuring) for the very important subject of apostasy, simply so that it is easy to find the Shia rulings (both for ex-Shia Muslims (don't want them to feel forgotten either, and their apostasy laws are even more vicious) and waivering Shia Muslims, and also because it's such a common topic of interest for non-Muslims who often may want an overview of apostasy sources for Islam in general (for them Sunni and Shia may both be important). What I will do though is restructure the QHS page and the section in the main apostasy article slightly. I don't intend to dig out Shia hadiths too (I'm just fufilling requests from ex-Muslims at the moment after I told them on reddit about my recent work), but anyone can also then add a subsection under Shia on the QHS page for hadiths later if they wish (and the Qur'an and sirat quotes are useful for both sunni and shia).Lightyears (talk) 17:11, 18 October 2016 (EDT)

Umm Qirfa task completed, more or less. [6] The major apologetic claims I have addressed now. Saggy (talk) 09:43, 23 October 2016 (EDT)

You can add this to the page for approval, but I don't really want to spend time checking and reviewing things anymore (which requires me to familiarise myself with the topic if I'm to do it properly). I could do so for the evolution page too as an exception.

Where is the page for approval? Do you have any contacts, emails etc of the exmna guys? Saggy (talk) 14:13, 23 October 2016 (EDT)