User:Axius/Sandbox2: Difference between revisions

This article refutes miscellaneous apologetics which may not be fully covered in our main articles, but are used by some to justify the marriage between the Islamic Prophet Muhammad and his six-year-old bride Aisha.

The Qur'an does not say Muhammad married Aisha when she was 6 and had sex with her when she was 9

The Qur'an is not a biography of Muhammad. By name, he is only mentioned 4 times in the Qur'an.^[1] The Qur'an is not a historical narrative and without the Hadiths and Sirat (which are accepted by the majority of the worlds Muslims and Islamic scholars) there would be no Five Pillars, Islam as Muslims know it would be unrecognizable, and there would be little^[2] to no historical evidence that a person known as Prophet Muhammad ever existed. Therefore they cannot be ignored. Furthermore, the Qur'an itself permits pedophilia in verse 65:4.^[3]

Allah's purpose for the marriage was not sex, Aisha was a great scholar who narrated important hadiths

There is no purpose of an Islamic marriage (nikah) if there will be no sex between the couple. If 54 year old Muhammad did not want to have sex with 9 year old Aisha but wanted to keep her in his house, he could easily have adopted her as his grand-daughter instead. He already had an adopted son.

And even if we were to accept the marriage as a result of Allah's foreknowledge, it still does not explain why he could not foretell that millions of young girls today would face pedophilic child marriages, explicitly using Muhammad and Aisha's relationship as justification.^{[4][5][6][7][8]}

The hadiths do not say Muhammad had sex with Aisha when she was 9. They have been poorly translated

In multiple sahih hadiths, as discussed in this article, the Arabic terms used are "udkhilath" and "bana biha", which in their context can only be referring to "sexual intercourse" and nothing else.

There is 1 hadith that says Aisha "never saw the private parts of Muhammad"

The hadiths that confirm Aisha consummated her marriage are Mutawatir ('corroborated'), meaning the same narrations (either with minor variation or word-for-word) have been passed down through different isnads (chains).

When the same/similar narration is passed down through multiple isnads, then it is of higher authenticity than one which may be reported through a lesser number of isnads (especially if they contradict). This classification can be joined with other classifications; for example, if a narration were both 'sahih' and 'mutawatir' then it is of the highest authenticity regarding classification of ahadith.

Since all the most authentic collections confirm that the relationship between Muhammad and Aisha was a sexual one, this alleged hadith can be ignored.

The idea that Aisha was a virgin her entire life is an alien one to Islam, and if we were to be as "difficult" and/or disingenuous as the apologists appear to be, we could always point out that, literally speaking, there is no need to "see the private parts" of anyone in order to have sex with them.

There are also hadith which tell us Muhammad had sex with all (9 to 11) of his wives in one night,^[9][10] and Sauda (who was fat)^[11] gave up her night of sex to Aisha.^[12] Are we now to believe he was in fact not having sex with them, but reading them bedtime stories or engaging in some other evening activity?

There are also sahih narations which tell us that Muhammad's first encounter with Aisha following her admittance into his house "surprised" her,^[13] that she used to wash and scrape off the semen from his clothes,^[14][15] and that he used to fondle her and suck her tongue.^[16][17]

Some Islamic sources say Aisha was aged 12, 14, 15, 17, 18 and 21 when Muhammad had sex with her

All authentic sources of Aisha’s own testimony confirm she was aged nine at the time. These alternate ages have been derived from misquotations, indirect sources, fuzzy dating techniques, and slander, in an attempt to cast doubt upon facts which have been unquestionably accepted by Muslims for almost 1,500 years.

Even today, the vast majority of the worlds Muslims acknowledge and accept Aisha's young age and many of these honest Muslims take offense to these lies propagated by western Muslim apologists who are embarrassed by their own prophet's actions. In fact, Islamic scholar and teacher of Fiqh at Sunnipath.com and Livingislam.org, Shaykh Gibril Fouad Haddad's work has been referenced in our refutation to all these claims, which you can read here.

Muhammad waited for 3 years so Aisha could attain puberty before having sex with her

Playing with dolls and similar images is forbidden in Islam, unless you are a child who has yet to reach the age of puberty.^[18][19] Thus, the doll-playing exegesis applied to the relevant hadith narrations prove that Aisha remained pre-pubertal at the time of consummation.

Muhammad made an exception for Aisha by allowing her to play with dolls even after puberty

This is purely wishful thinking that ultimately backfires on the user because it assumes Muhammad, the perfect Muslim whose example is to be emulated, defied Allah by not adhering to his sacred law (the Shar'iah).

Unless Allah clearly specified an exemption for Muhammad, he would have followed the rules governing doll-playing in Islam. Claiming otherwise only makes Muhammad into a hypocrite and a bad example for other Muslims to follow.

Menstruation in hot climates starts earlier than in cold ones, so girls in Arabia matured as early as 9

For girls in the Medieval (5^th to 15^th century) Middle East, the average age at menarche was between 12 to 13 years of age, not 9. In fact, the average age at menarche for Medieval Europeans was very similar, at 12 to 14 years of age.^[20]

In 1 hadith Aisha says "When a girl is nine years old, she is a woman (meaning, she has attained puberty)"

If we were to accept this interpretation made by apologists, it would mean Aisha is also making an incorrect blanket statement. Not many girls go through puberty at the age of 9, especially in the Middle East during Aisha's lifetime,^[20] yet she appears to be claiming all 9 year-olds go through puberty. So the only conclusion that can be drawn from this erroneous interpretation is that this "great scholar of Islam" was stupid.

If we take a rational approach to reaching conclusions, we can clearly see this alleged narration does not prove Aisha had attained puberty. "she has attained puberty" is written in parenthesis, meaning it was added by the translator and was not taken from the original source.

She was also a young child who had been sexually defiled at the age of nine, so obviously she would consider that moment in time to have been the moment when she went from being a child to becoming a women. Her statement had absolutely nothing to do with attaining puberty.

Why did Muhammad wait for 3 years if it was not so Aisha could attain puberty?

According to Bukhari, Aisha fell ill and lost her hair after her marriage/engagement to Muhammad at the age of six. The same hadith also confirms that she was "handed over to him" once her hair grew back.^[21] Since Bukhari is Sahih (authentic), we have no reason to dismiss this explanation.

Also according to Tabari (a less reliable, yet widely respected and accepted source among Muslims), the delay was due to Muhammad not having the gold to pay the sadaq.^[22]

One thing we can be sure of is that the delay had nothing to do with her pubertal status, as such an important issue would not have gone without some commentary by the early Islamic sources and it would have also contradicted Muhammad's Qur'anic revelation which sanctions pedophilia.

If Muhammad was a pedophile, he would still not have waited 3 years to have sex with Aisha

It is not unusual for a pedophile to know his intended child partner for some years before initiating sexual contact. This is known as "grooming". A survey by the Mayo Clinic revealed heterosexual male pedophiles preferred girls in the age range of 8-10 years (Aisha was 9), and frequently met them when they were even younger.^[23]

Also, if we take Bukhari's explanation into consideration, it makes perfect sense. A pedophile would not want to have sex with an ill child if he thinks he is going to catch some sort of disease from doing so.

If Muhammad was a pedophile, Aisha's parents would not have offered her to him

Aisha's parents did not offer her to Muhammad. It was in fact Muhammad who approached Abu Bakr, and he (Aisha's father) initially protested.^[24]

Even today, it is not uncommon for cult members to give their young children to the cult leader to "marry" and sexually abuse.^[25] So if she were to have been offered to Muhammad, this would not justify the marriage in any way.

Abu Bakr became the 1st Caliph. Muhammad married Aisha to "cement the relations of the budding nation"

Abu Bakr was already Muhammad's closest companion. There was no need for him to "cement relations" with Abu Bakr by marrying his 6-year-old daughter, and thereby forever legitimizing child-marriages within Islam.

Additionally, if this was the sole purpose behind the marriage, he could have just as easily married Abu Bakr's other daughter, Asma bint Abu Bakr, who was a lot older and not married at the time.

Aisha consented to the marriage. If it was abuse, she would have left Muhammad

In Islam, a virgin's silence is her "consent".^[26][27] To the rest of us, this does not constitute consent, and the idea that a young child's willingness to engage in sexual activity with a grown adult somehow makes the act morally justifiable is abhorrent. It is an excuse that many pedophiles use to justify their behavior.

In fact, Aisha did not consent to her marriage. This is the specific reason why Islamic scholars are "unanimously agreed that a father may marry off his young daughter without consulting her."^[28] Furthermore, "there is no age limit to be intimate with one's wife even if she is a minor (did not attain puberty)", but "when she attains puberty, she has the right to maintain the marriage or discontinue the marriage."^[29]

As to not leaving him; both of the young victims, aged 12 and 15, of Warren Jeffs, the polygamist cult leader, did not leave him. They "entered into unions with Jeffs willingly, and did not participate in the trial against him."^[30] Regardless of the victims support for him, he was still a pedophile and was convicted in 2011 of sexually abusing children.

Aisha loved Muhammad and always spoke highly of him. Would a pedophile be worthy of such praise?

If you read the narrations by Aisha, you will find that their nature and content are often derogatory towards Islam, and at times she is found mocking and belittling her husband. Indeed, this is one of the reasons why the Shi'ite sect hold a very negative view of her.

For example; she said Muhammad was affected with magic, and black magic is considered to be the devil’s doing, thereby she is in fact proclaiming he was under the influence of the devil.^[31] She also created the impression that he was forgetful and clumsy,^[32] she disclosed things which Muhammad had told her in private.^[33] and once noted, with unmissable sarcasm, "I feel that your Lord hastens in fulfilling your wishes and desires."^[34]

Muhammad and Aisha's relationship was far from idyllic. Muhammad at one time struck her painfully in the chest,^[35] and he allowed Abu Bakr to slap her,^[36] and Aisha even claimed to dislike facing him.^[37]

As to the original question; Would a pedophile be worthy of such praise? The answer is, yes. Victims of pedophilia often defend their abusers. Any praise heaped on Muhammad by Aisha can be easily explained by the Stockholm Syndrome.^[38]

Muhammad can't be a pedophile, he also had sex with grown women

According to statistics provided by the Mayo Clinic, 93% of heterosexual male pedophiles have also engaged in adult relationships.^[23]

Pedophiles prefer children, but Muhammad had many adult wives and only 1 child-bride

It is common knowledge that after Khadijah's death, Aisha, who was Muhammad's only child bride, was also his favorite wife,^[39] and according to Islamic oral traditions, Muhammad preferred young virgin girls to "matrons",^[40][41] he had sexual intentions for at least one other baby girl,^[42][43] and he coveted a child princess still being wet-nursed.^[44]

The stringent DSM-IV-TR clinical definition of pedophilia, which is applied to Muhammad's behavior here, also does not require a person to be solely or preferentially attracted to children for a positive diagnosis of pedophilia. The DSM-IV only requires that someone have had a sexual attraction for a child and have acted on that attraction at least once.

At that time, it was okay to have sex with 9 year olds in Arabia. It was a cultural norm

As they themselves have left behind no written records, there is no evidence of pedophilic marriages being accepted among the non-Muslim Arabs of Muhammad's time. The only sources we have are Muslim sources, so to claim that such a marriage was a cultural norm among all Arabs is baseless conjecture.

During the Medieval period it was the norm in Jewish Middle Eastern cultures for girls to be given in marriage when they were 12-13 years old,^[45] coinciding perfectly with the average age at menarche in the Medieval Middle East which was also 12-13 years.^[20] A large age gap between the spouses was also opposed,^[46][47] yet the age gap between Muhammad and Aisha was a massive 45 years.

Besides, a lot of other things were acceptable in the past, but that does not make them any more moral or right.

Drinking alcohol and gambling were both permitted activities in pre-Islamic Arabia, yet Muhammad chose to ban these relatively harmless "cultural norms".^[48] Why did he not do the same for slavery or pedophilia rather than indulging in both himself?

As with pedophilia, Muhammad's actions perpetuated the existence of slavery by institutionalizing it within Islam. Muhammad was a slave-trader.^[49] He not only owned many male^[50] and female^[51] slaves, but he also captured, sold, and had sex^[52] with his slaves. Even Bilal, the famed "black Muslim", was bought in exchange for a black non-Muslim slave.^[53]

All religious founders were products of their time. We cannot judge Muhammad by today's standards

Most Muslims clearly disagree with this statement. Unlike other faiths, in Islam, Muhammad is the "uswa hasana, al-Insān al-Kāmil" (the perfect human, whose example is worthy of imitation). The Qur'an even refers to his morality as “sublime”,^[54] and as the Qur'an is believed by Muslims to be the literal and final words of God, they are beyond the constraints of time.

All mainstream Muslims consider Muhammad to be the perfect example to follow. For them to suggest otherwise (thereby conceding that Muhammad's actions are immoral when compared to today's standards) would constitute apostasy via blasphemy in belief^[55] and would make them liable for the death sentence under Islamic law.

They do not judge morality by "today's" standard, but by Muhammad's standard. Hence millions of young girls today are forced into pedophilic child marriages by individuals, and even entire countries, who explicitly use Muhammad and Aisha's relationship as justification.^{[4][5][6][7][8]}

Muhammad and Aisha's relationship is also used to hinder attempts by developing countries to move forward by banning child marriages. For example; in countries like Yemen, Bangladesh, Iran, and Northern Nigeria, recent attempts at reforming laws and banning child marriages have been opposed and stopped on the grounds that such a ban would be "un-Islamic".^{[56][57][58][59]}

In some cases, Muhammad and Aisha's relationship is used to effectively "turn back the clock" by legalizing child marriages in places they were previously illegal. For example; in 2010, the Malaysian State of southern Malacca legalized child marriages specifically between adult Muslim men and young Muslim girls below the age of 16. Ivy Josiah, the executive director of the Women's Aid Organisation, noted "Child marriage amounts to paedophilia ... It is really a regressive move. It is turning back the clock."^[60]

The Islamic texts themselves specifically destroy any appeals to cultural relativism that could be otherwise aimed at Muhammad's marriage. In Sahih Bukhari, Muhammad claimed it was Allah's will (through a dream)^[61] that he marry Aisha. Thus, it was not the primitive Arabian culture that led to his marriage, but the "timeless" morality of Allah.

The Jewish Talmud says sex with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age

The claim that the Talmud says "Sexual intercourse with a little girl is permitted if she is three years of age," is an antisemitic lie. Yevamot 11b, the citation provided with this claim, has no relevant passage.

Whilst the language used is very crude, the discussion relates to the dowry for virgins and non-virgins. It has nothing to do with what acts are allowed, encouraged, forbidden, or discouraged. It is ironic that this passage has been manipulated from its original context of a financial discussion into one of a religious discussion. While there are numerous Talmudic passages of a religious nature, this one discusses dowries and not forbidden and permitted relations.^[62]

Mary married 90-year-old Joseph when she was 12-14, so Joseph was a pedophile too

Everyone who makes this claim, cite the same New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia page.^[63] What they do not mention is that this page begins by warning readers, "the apocryphal literature is full of details, the non-admittance of these works into the Canon of the Sacred Books casts a strong suspicion upon their contents".^[64]

According to Wikipedia, apocrypha is defined as "spurious", "of questionable authenticity", and "Christian texts that are not canonical."^[65] Thus they can be considered as the Christian equivalent of da`if (weak) or maudu (fabricated) hadith.

Something that is non-canonical is not binding on a follower and can be ignored. There is no authoritative Christian text which state Mary's age. Claims about her age are, at best, educated guesses, but guesses none-the-less. Bukhari and Muslim, on the other hand, are canonical Islamic writings of the utmost religious authenticity, accepted by approximately 90 percent of the world's Muslims.

Even if we do accept this tu-quoque logical fallacy as a valid argument, there remains several problems. The first being the fact that the New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia page does not say Mary married Joseph when she was aged 12 to 14.

What it actually says, after warning readers once again that the stories are "unreliable", is that Mary was 12 to 14 at the time of the choosing of candidates, and the Annunciation (the announcement by the angel Gabriel to the virgin called Mary, that she would conceive and become the mother of Jesus)^[66] took place two years later.^[67] This would make Mary 14 to 16 at the time of her marriage, not 12 to 14, or 9, as was the case between Muhammad and Aisha. She would have been a teenager of child-bearing age, not a pre-pubescent pre-teen child.

Another problem is that the theological significance of Joseph and Muhammad to the Christian and Islamic faiths are incomparable. Unlike the Muslim view of Muhammad, Christians do not consider Joseph to be an uswa hasana (excellent model of conduct). Joseph's moral character holds no importance within Christian theology. He could have been insane and it would not matter to a Christian.

Then there is the fact that, according to both the Christian scriptures and the Islamic ones, Mary was a virgin when she conceived and gave birth to Jesus; therefore, her relationship with Joseph could not have been a sexual one until after Jesus' birth, making her possibly 17 years of age at the time the marriage was eventually consummated, if ever.

Indeed, the same New Advent Catholic Encyclopedia page continues the narrative of Joseph's life by stating both Mary and Joseph entered the marriage with the understanding that it was never to be consummated.^[68]

Mary's Perpetual virginity, the belief that Mary remained a virgin her entire life, is an essential article of faith for the majority of the worlds Christians (including the Roman Catholic, Anglo-Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox Christians). It is even held by some Muslims.^[69]

Finally, the most decisive argument against the claim that Joseph was a pedophile is the fact that the same non-canonical writings which are used to gather information on Joseph and Mary's age, also confirm Mary's status as "ever virgin" (in The History of Joseph the Carpenter, Jesus says on Joseph's death "my mother, virgin undefiled").^[70]

Catholic & Eastern Churches believe pedophile Joseph is a Saint, that's the same as an Uswa Hasana in Islam

A saint and an uswa hasana are nothing alike. The entire Islamic faith, almost all of its laws, rituals, and moral principles, are defined by the uswa hasana's actions. A saint has no similar function in Christianity. Their actions do not determine Christian laws, rituals, or moral principles in any way. Joan of Arc and countless others are Catholic saints too, but that means very little to how one practices Christianity.

Muhammad is the central figure of Islam, Joseph is not the central figure of Christianity. Islam wouldn't exist if Muslims decided Muhammad was immoral. On the other hand, for Christians of any stripe, Joseph is a "non entity" as far as its theology is concerned. The closest analogy to Muhammad and an uswa hasana in Christianity is the figure of Jesus, and very few non-Christians would argue that their view of Christians and Christianity would not improve if his followers behaved more like him.

In addition, it is the same Catholic and Eastern Churches which consider Joseph a saint, who also hold to the belief of Mary's perpetual virginity. Since Mary's ever-lasting virginity is an integral part or "pillar" of their faith, and most modern theologians think the Pope could reverse a sainthood without undermining the Church's doctrines,^[71] it's not hard to imagine what would have become of Joseph's saint status if he did have intercourse with Mary.

Furthermore, as has already been stated in the previous section, Joseph cannot be labeled as a pedophile by anyones standards because there is no authoritative, or even apocryphal, Christian text that state an adult Joseph had sex with a child Mary. Therefore, even if the status of saint was equivalent to that of an uswa hasana, it would not matter to a Christian or help Muslims in excusing the actions of Muhammad.

If Muhammad was a pedophile, then so is the Christian god for impregnating Mary

Ignoring the fact that a pedophile by its very definition means someone who is sexually attracted to pre-pubescent children, so a teenager of child-bearing age is not pre-pubescent, it has already been shown in a previous section that there is no authoritative Christian text which state Mary's age. Claims about her age are, at best, educated guesses, but guesses none-the-less.

Additionally, the apocryphal literature (the Christian equivalent of weak or fabricated hadith) used to gather information on Mary's possible age actually reveal she may have been 16 at the time of her marriage, not 12 or 14.

Even if we were to assume she was 12 or 14 at the time, there still remain several problems with this claim.

According to the Bible, Mary became with child by "the power of the Highest",^[72] a phrase that does not, or does not necessarily, correspond to Mary being "impregnated."

Even if we do accept that the Christian god "impregnated" Mary, both Christians and Muslims believe God is omnipotent. Therefore sexual intercourse, something which would have to take place if we were to accept this claim, is not necessary in order to achieve this. For example, artificial insemination needs no sexual intercourse. If humans can impregnate people without sexual intercourse, why can't an omnipotent deity do the same?

Muslims also believe in the virgin birth. So, if Muslims insist the Christian god must have had sex with Mary in order to have a son, it is tantamount to an admission that, according to Islam, Allah must have also had sex with Mary in order for her to conceive Jesus.

In short; the Christian text do not mention anything of a sexual nature, i.e. there was no penis involved. If there was no penis involved, then there was no sexual contact. Without sexual contact, there is no pedophilia.

Conversely, the Qur'an explicitly tells us Allah (or Gabriel if we refer to the tafsir text) blew into Mary's vagina in order for her to conceive Jesus.

Americans and Europeans both considered child marriages to be acceptable

Yes, that is correct. But note the past tense. They considered, not consider. Marriage to young girls was previously seen as normal, and yet most people in the West today, both religious and secular, find child marriages to be repulsive. Could this be because they have no uswa hasana (an excellent model of conduct) who married and had sex with a child?

Man-made laws have evidently evolved with our morality, whilst Shari'ah (consisting of the Qur'an and Sunnah) are seen as Allah's unalterable holy law. To attempt to change it would be considered blasphemous, as it constitutes Bid'ah, something which was forbidden by Muhammad himself.^[73][74] What can be altered is Islamic jurisprudence, but as that is extracted from, and cannot contradict,^[75][76] Shari'ah, the results tend to remain unacceptable to the modern world.

The world has moved on, but unfortunately Islam mostly has not.

See Also

• Refutation to Muslim Apologetics against Aisha's Age of Consummation
• Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Aisha - Islamic sources relating to Aisha

External Links

• A’isha: Mohammed’s Nine-Year Old Wife - MuslimHope
• Muhammad, Aisha, Islam, and Child Brides - Answering Islam‎
• Was Muhammad a Pedophile? An Examination of Muhammad’s Relationship with a Nine-Year-Old Girl - Answering Islam‎
• Let's clear up all this pedophilia garbage... - FFI forum discussion on another defence of Muhammad's marriage to a child
• Was Prophet Muhammad a Pedophile? - FFI forum discussion on why Mohammed actually waited 3 years before consummation

References