User:Saggy/Sandbox - Issues with Quran and Hadith: Difference between revisions

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==[[Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Cosmology]]==
==[[Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Cosmology]]==
===Sirah===
===Sirah===
{{Quote|{{Tabari|1|232-238}}|The other report, referring to a different concept, is what I was told by Muhammad b. Abi Mansur- Khalaf b. Wasil- Abu Nu'aym- Muqatil b. Hayyan- Ikrimah: One day when Ibn `Abbas was sitting (at home or in the mosque), a man came to him and said: Ibn `Abbas, I heard Ka'b, the Rabbi, tell a marvelous story about the sun and the moon. He continued. Ibn `Abbas who had been reclining sat up and asked what it was. The man said: He suggested that on the Day of Resurrection, the sun and the moon will be brought as if they were two hamstrung oxen, and flung into Hell. `Ikrimah continued. Ibn `Abbas became contorted with anger and exclaimed three times: Ka'b is lying! Ka'b is lying! Ka'b is lying! This is something Jewish he wants to inject into Islam. God is too majestic and noble to mete out punishment where there is obedience to Him. Have you not heard God's word: "And He subjected to you the sun and the moon, being constant" — referring to their constant obedience. How would He punish two servants that are praised for constant obedience? May God curse that rabbi and his rabbinate! How insolent is he toward God and what a tremendous fabrication has he told about those two servants that are obedient to God! He continued. Then he said several times: We return to God. He took a little piece of wood from the ground and started to hit the ground with it. He did that for some time, then lifting his head he threw away the little piece of wood and said: You want me to tell you what I heard the Messenger of God say about the sun and the moon and the beginning of their creation and how things went with them? We said: We would, indeed, May God show mercy unto you. He said: When the Messenger of God was asked about that, he replied: When God was done with His creation and only Adam remained to be created, He created two suns from the light of His Throne. His foreknowledge told Him that He would leave here one sun, so He created it as (large as) this world is from east to west. His foreknowledge also told Him that He would efface it and change it to a moon; so the moon is smaller in size than the sun. But both are seen as small because of the sun's altitude and remoteness from the earth.
He continued: If God had left the two suns as He created them in the beginning, night would not have been distinguishable from day. A hired man then would not know until when he should labor and when he should receive his wages. A person fasting would not know until when he must fast. A woman would not know how to reckon the period of her impurity. The Muslims would not know the time of the pilgrimage. Debtors would not know when their debts become due. People in general would not know when to work for a livelihood and when to stop for resting their bodies. The Lord was too concerned with His servants and too merciful to them (to do such a thing). He thus sent Gabriel to drag his wing three times over the face of the moon, which at the time was a sun. He effaced its luminosity and left the light in it. This is (meant by) God's word: "And We have made the night and the day two signs. We have blotted out the sign of the night, and We have made the sign of the day something to see by." He continued. The blackness you can see as lines on the moon is a trace of the blotting. God then created for the sun a chariot with 360 handholds from the luminosity of the light of the Throne and entrusted 360 of the angels inhabiting the lower heaven with the sun and its chariot, each of them gripping one of those handholds. He entrusted 360 of the angels inhabiting (the lower?) heaven with the moon and its chariot, each of them gripping one of those handholds.
Then he said: For the sun and the moon, He created easts and wests (positions to rise and set) on the two sides of the earth and the two rims of heaven, 180 springs in the west of black clay – This is (meant by) God's word: "He found it setting in a muddy spring," meaning by "muddy (hami'ah)" black clay - and 180 springs in the east likewise of black clay, bubbling and boiling like a pot when it boiled furiously. He continued. Every day and night, the sun has a new place where it rises and a new place where it sets. The interval between them from beginning to end is longest for the day in summer and shortest in winter. This is (meant by) God's word: "The Lord of the two easts and the Lord of the two wests," meaning the last (position) of the sun here and the last there. He omitted the positions in the east and the west (for the rising and setting of the sun) in between them. Then He referred to east and west in the plural, saying; "(By) the Lord of the easts and wests." He mentioned the number of all those springs (as above).
He continued. God created an ocean three farsakhs (18 kilometers) removed from heaven. Waves contained, it stands in the air by the command of God. No drop of it is spilled. All the oceans are motionless, but that ocean flows at the rate of the speed of an arrow. It is set free to move in the air evenly, as if it were a rope stretched out in the area between east and west. The sun, the moon, and the retrograde stars run in its deep swell. this is (meant by) God's word: "Each swims in a sphere." "The sphere" is the circulation of the chariot in the deep swell of that ocean. By Him Who holds the soul of Muhammad in His hand! If the sun were to emerge from that ocean, it would burn everything on earth, including even rocks and stones, and if the moon were to emerge from it, it would afflict (by its heat) the inhabitants of the earth to such and extent that they would worship gods other than God. The exception would be those of God's friends whom He would want to keep free from sin.
Ibn `Abbas said that `Ali b. Abi Talib said to the Messenger of God: You are like my father and my mother! You have mentioned the course of the retrograde stars (al-khunnas) by which God swears in the Qur'an, together with the sun and the moon, and the rest. Now, what are al-khunnas? The Prophet replied: `Ali, they are five stars: Jupiter (al-birjis), Saturn (zuhal), Mercury (`utarid), Mars (bahram), and Venus (al-zuhrah). These five stars rise and run like the sun and the moon and race with them together. All the other stars are suspended from heaven as lamps are from mosques, and circulate together with heaven praising and sanctifying God with prayer. The Prophet then said: If you wish to have this made clear, look to the circulation of the sphere alternately here and there. It is the circulation of heaven and the circulation of all the stars together with it except those five. Their circulation today is what you see, and that is their prayer. Their circulation to the Day of Resurrection is as quick as the circulation of a mill because of the dangers and tremors of the Day of resurrection. This is (meant by) God's word: "On a day when the heaven sways to and fro and the mountains move. Woe on that day unto those who declare false (the Prophet's divine message)."
He continued. When the sun rises, it rises upon its chariot from one of those springs accompanied by 360 angels with outspread wings. They draw it along the sphere, praising and sanctifying God with prayer, according to the extent of the hours of night and the hours of day, be it night or day. When God wishes to test the sun and the moon, showing His servants a sign and thereby asking them to stop disobeying Him and to start to obey, the sun tumbles from the chariot and falls into the deep of that ocean, which is the sphere. When God wants to increase the significance of the sign and frighten His servants severely, all of the sun falls, and nothing of it remains upon the chariot. That is a total eclipse of the sun, when the day darkens and the stars come out. When God wants to make a partial sign, half or a third or two-thirds of it fall into the water, while the rest remains upon the chariot, this being a partial eclipse. It is a misfortune for the sun or for the moon. It frightens His servants and constitutes a request from the Lord (for them to repent). However this may be, the angels entrusted with the chariot of the sun divide into two groups, one that goes to the sun and pulls it toward the chariot, and another that goes to the chariot and pulls it toward the sun, while at the same time they keep it steady in the sphere, praising and sanctifying God with prayer, according to the extent of the hours of day or the hours of night, be it night or day, summer or winter, autumn or spring between summer and winter, lest the length of night and day be increased in any way. God has given them knowledge of that by inspiration and also the power for it. The gradual emergence of the sun or the moon from the deep of that ocean covering them which you observe after an eclipse (is accomplished by) all the angels together who, after having brought out all of it, carry it (back) and put it upon the chariot. They praise God that He gave them the power to do that. They grip the handholds of the chariot and draw it in the sphere, praising and sanctifying God with prayer. Finally, they bring the sun to the west. Having done so; they put it into the spring, and the sun falls from the horizon of the sphere into the spring.
Then the Prophet said, expressing wonder at God’s creation: How wonderful is the divine power with respect to something than which nothing more wonderful has ever been created!… By Him Who holds the soul of Muhammad in His hand! Were those people not so many and so noisy, all the inhabitants of this world would hear the loud crash made by the sun falling when it rises and when it sets… Whenever the sun sets, it is raised from heaven to heaven by the angels’ fast flight, until it is brought to the highest, seventh heaven, and eventually is underneath the Throne. It falls down in prostration, and the angels entrusted with it prostrate themselves together with it. Then it is brought down to heaven. When it reaches this heaven, dawn breaks. When it comes down from one of those springs, morning becomes luminous. And when it reaches this face of heaven, the day becomes luminous. }}

Revision as of 19:17, 2 July 2014

Scientific Errors in the Quran

Position of the Moon

The following verse is a compounded error since it mentions the position of the moon in the erroneous seven heavens. Verse 37:6 about stars in the first heaven must also be taken into consideration. The word "therein" does not reveal the exact position of the moon but any position above the first heaven would mean the moon is further away from the earth than stars which is not true. The moon is only 384,000 kilometres from earth whereas stars are light years away. Some translations say the moon is in the "midst" of all heavens which is a clear error.

See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another, And made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a Lamp?
Quran 71:15-16

"Therein" does not generally mean at the bottom or in an edge/corner. Even if the author meant that the moon is in the lowermost heaven, moonlight (reflected light from the sun) is noticeable only from the earth and it is insignificant compared to the much brighter stars which are sources of light. An all-knowing deity should not have termed the moon a light from a "heaven's" point of view.

Prophets of Islam were Sent to Every Nation

There is no evidence that prophets preaching Islam or similar beliefs were ever sent to China, Japan, Polynesia, Australia, South-East Asia, Central Asia, Scandinavia, the polar regions, most of Africa and the pre-Columbian Americas. Yet the Quran claims that every nation (or community) had a messenger.

And certainly We raised in every nation a messenger saying: Serve Allah and shun the Shaitan. So there were some of them whom Allah guided and there were others against whom error was due; therefore travel in the land, then see what was the end of the rejecters.
Quran 16:36

Contradictions in the Qur'an and Hadith

Did Muhammad perform miracles?

Yes

Narrated Anas bin Malik: I saw Allah’s Apostle when the ‘Asr prayer was due and the people searched for water to perform ablution but they could not find it. Later on (a pot full of) water for ablution was brought to Allah’s Apostle . He put his hand in that pot and ordered the people to perform ablution from it. I saw the water springing out from underneath his fingers till all of them performed the ablution (it was one of the miracles of the Prophet).
Sahih Bukhari 1:4:170

No

They say: "We shall not believe in thee, until thou cause a spring to gush forth for us from the earth, Or (until) thou have a garden of date trees and vines, and cause rivers to gush forth in their midst, carrying abundant water; Or thou cause the sky to fall in pieces, as thou sayest (will happen), against us; or thou bring Allah and the angels before (us) face to face: Or thou have a house adorned with gold, or thou mount a ladder right into the skies. No, we shall not even believe in thy mounting until thou send down to us a book that we could read." Say: "Glory to my Lord! Am I aught but a man,- a messenger?"
Quran 17:90-93

Misc Issues

Errors in the Quran

Constellations are Made by Allah

Constellations are essentially human observations of stars which are themselves many light years away from each other and from the earth. Light from a star takes as many years to reach us as its distance from earth in light years. So when we see a star of a constellation, or rather any star, it may not be in that location or it may have even ceased to exist. Thus, this verse reflects an observation by a naive author who simply credits Allah for the pattern of stars. Other translations say towers or mansions of stars instead of constellations but no such towers or mansions exist in the universe.

Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light;
Quran 25:61


Pending review

Scientific Errors in the Hadith

Scientific Errors in the Qur'an

Prophets of Islam were Sent to Every Nation

There is no evidence that prophets preaching Islam or similar beliefs were ever sent to China, Japan, Polynesia, Australia, South-East Asia, Central Asia, Scandinavia, the polar regions, most of Africa and the pre-Columbian Americas. Yet the Quran claims that every nation (or community) had a messenger.

And certainly We raised in every nation a messenger saying: Serve Allah and shun the Shaitan. So there were some of them whom Allah guided and there were others against whom error was due; therefore travel in the land, then see what was the end of the rejecters.
Quran 16:36

Earth Created before Stars

The author of the Qur'an is also unaware that the elements in the Earth's crust and core were first formed in stars. Modern science has proposed that all the elements that make up the earth (Oxygen, Nitrogen, Carbon, Iron, etc.) was originally formed by nucleosynthesis in stars and then expelled into the universe when those stars supernova. Yet the Qur'an describes the earth being formed before the stars and from "smoke" or material that pre-dates stars. All rocky and gaseous planets in the universe were formed in a similar manner to the earth and the Qur'an singling out the earth only further highlights the authors ignorance of the history of the formation of celestial objects.

He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things.
Quran 2:29

Earth and Heavens were Ripped Apart

Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
Quran 21:30

Universe was Made from Smoke by Contraction

Main Article: Quran and a Universe from Smoke
Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."
Quran 41:11

Inanimate Objects Were Offered to Obey Allah but Feared Punishments

exp. yet to do, check tafsir [1]

We did indeed offer the Trust to the Heavens and the Earth and the Mountains; but they refused to undertake it, being afraid thereof: but man undertook it;- He was indeed unjust and foolish;-
Quran 33:72

Science and the Seven Earths

Seven Layers of Earth's Atmosphere

Secondly, this claim contradicts the Qur'an. The following verse says that stars are located in the lowermost heaven.

We have indeed decked the lower heaven with beauty (in) the stars,-
Quran 37:07

Stars are not located in the lowest layer of the atmosphere i.e. troposphere but are light years away from the earth.

Seven Universes

Another common apologetic claim is that these seven heavens are actually seven universes which we are yet to discover.

It seems that the huge universe that we live in, the one whose boundaries are not yet known to man, is just one of these heavens (universes) there are seven others, of which we -- with all our scientific developments -- do not know anything about.
"Understanding-Islam.com", http://www.understanding-islam.com/q-and-a/miscellaneous-issues/what-about-seven-heavens. 

The following verse contradicts such a claim since it says rain was made to fall from heaven. Certainly, rain does not come from outer space. The word used for heaven here is sama, the same as that for the seven heavens.

So We opened the gates of heaven, with water pouring forth.
Quran 54:11

Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Cosmology

Sirah

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