WikiIslam:Discussions/Visitor Inquiries

Have you considered opening a chat room like #wikiislam on irc.freenode.net where dialogue can occur between skeptics and Muslims in chat? --Sonja 20:59, 28 January 2011 (PST)

That would be nice but there's only a few of us regular editors here and we dont have the time to chat or moderate chat. People are asked to go to forums on other websites. --Axius 21:05, 28 January 2011 (PST)

i've described it at FFI forum post & currently just getting started

http://forum09.faithfreedom.org/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=10270

one approach would be for me to post an article with all the koran verses & initial category assignments (or something i'm new at this wiki stuff) and let people edit the verses to assign categories, then download the article & use as new data for the sql queries

defining the categories & assigning them to the verses is a very open ended task and can be done ranging from simple (a flat category structure & maybe a dozen categories) to complex (a 10 level category tree with 100s of categories)

for me the appeal is having functionality to query the verses based on categories, like - show all verses with categories = violence against unbelievers, show all verses with categories = theology and legal (or however the lack of seperation church/state is represented in the cats)

just having a list of verses & categories is nice but not sure how useful this list is unless can query or show them somehow. example website with verses categorized is the skeptics etc http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/Quran/

thanks

Hi Ecks, thanks for your reply to my message on the FFI forum about that post you linked. The main problem is that there arent many editors on this site, its just me and Gabe right now and we dont have any time to work on this, so you'll have to do everything yourself but we can guide you. On the wiki you can make pages and links and tables and so on. There arent any database functions. 6000 verses means it will be a huge project for one person

I saw the site you linked in your reply [1], the graphs look good.

We can teach how to make Wiki pages and edit here, and answer your questions, but basically you're on your own and you'll have to judge if what you want to do can be wholelly or partially achieved on this site. You can tell us what features you need and we can tell what is possible here and you can see if it will meet your needs. This wiki atmosphere is text based: links between pages, images, tables (sortable) etc. -- Axius 17:27, 26 July 2011 (PDT)

Hi Axius - ok i will just continue as planned & when i get closer to being finished then explore posting more info here at wikiislam. it's clearly possible to do a flat category structure just using html & links into koran verses (thats what the skeptics site does) but i wanted more than that :) which is why i'm planning for sql. automating all that page creation is the way to go, some jscript to read the sql data & emit the html pages, then just upload them etc

Ok sounds good. --Axius 16:25, 27 July 2011 (PDT)

this project fizzled out. i learned alot but not worth the effort to finish, see the post mortem notes at FFI link about. i guess this whole entry can be deleted ? --Ecks why 14:07, 5 September 2011 (PDT)

Thats ok, this will be archived when the we archive all the sections on this page. --Axius 14:44, 5 September 2011 (PDT)

Terrific idea. Should be done sometime. -Haqir

I have a question.

I'm sure there are men and women here with alot of academic experience who have started to write on extensive complex articles.

Would it be an idea that perhaps less experienced editors could assist in doing some of the research work or doing some standardization work for them? This could save the experienced ones alot of time.

I myself would like to volunteer to be one of those assistance if anyone feels they require help with their article.

Just throwing it out there. Truthseeker (talk) 12:19, 31 July 2012 (PDT)

Thanks for the offer! Much appreciated. I'm not aware of anything at the moment, but will let you know. There's always something on the tasks page if you find yourself at a loss for something to do (but note that some of the tasks may be out of date, so it would be best to check with us first). --Admin3 (talk) 05:27, 1 August 2012 (PDT)

hi. who is admin of this site? if i want to build new article, can you help me ? Yahoo (talk) 08:04, 21 May 2013 (PDT)

Hi Yahoo. Welcome to WikiIslam! There are many administrators/editors. I am one of them and will help in any way I can. Have a read through the policies. When you're ready you can create a page here or use a sandbox (User:Yahoo/Sandbox).--Sahabah (talk) 10:05, 21 May 2013 (PDT)

thanks. can anyone make cite web and book like wikipedia ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cite_web & https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cite_book

and can someone give me classical islamic history book(ibn sa`d, tabari, waqedi, etc) and tafsir(tabari, etc) in english text ? i don't have them. Yahoo (talk) 11:33, 21 May 2013 (PDT)

how i can link to external web sites ? Yahoo (talk) 11:49, 21 May 2013 (PDT)

hi Yahoo, we do have a Cite web and its used in a few articles but I still need to change its output format (its input format will still be identical to Wikipedia). We have a reference archive template but it only works with WebCite. I would say, use WebCite and use the reference archive template for now. Examples of use can be seen on the template page or in any of the usage links.

We can provide some sources later on. What kind of articles do you plan on making?

You can get online Tafsirs from sites like http://www.altafsir.com/ and quote them using the quote template.

The article you made will need to have its headings capitalized. I think its a good idea. It will take time to look for all the links because there are so many and new ones are coming up all the time. I think if a fair number of links can be collected, the article can be presentable. Good luck with its completion. --Axius (talk) 16:56, 21 May 2013 (PDT)

1. Qur'an in English: this site provides 34 compared English translations, and this site provides the English literal translation
2. Hadiths in English: Compendium of Muslim Texts, and this site includes a few narrations that have been removed from the Compendium.
3. Tafsirs in English: [2], [3], [4] and [5].
4. Sira literature: [6] and [7].
5. Fiqh: [8] and [9].
6. Fatwa websites in English: [10] and [11]. --Sahabah (talk) 19:35, 21 May 2013 (PDT)

A publicly editable web page purports that Alhazen was the father of modern scientific method. Though he may have made some advances in optics, I do not believe this is true. I am interested in improving the page. Who might be a more accurate figure of the same or earlier era, who contributed significantly to the development of scientific method? Devraj (talk) 20:28, 4 July 2013 (PDT)

Hi Devraj. I did a quick Google search and could not find such a page. Anyhow, you can work on an article here: User:Devraj/Sandbox. This particular page is a response to a specific publication, so any article on Alhazen will have to be separate from it. --Sahabah (talk) 20:46, 4 July 2013 (PDT)

Hi Sahabah, The page I'm referring to is Wikipedia's "Scientific Method" page. [12].I would appreciate any link to a source that shows that scientific experimentation was undertaken by those other than muslims who lived in the similar era as Alhazen. Other sources I read say the Christian world came up with true scientific method, but I cannot find the specific example(s) of those persons who supposedly did these experiments prior to Alhazen.

If you look at the talk page for Wikipedia's Alhazen article[13], you'll see a lot of the claims are disputed because Jagged 85 was a big contributor of the information there. We have our hub page concerning the "Golden Age", but other than that, we would suggest going to the FFI forum if you have any questions. --Sahabah (talk) 11:04, 5 July 2013 (PDT)

Hello. I looked at the links to the Hadiths concerning killing dogs and restricting to killing black dogs from this page: http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Inspired_by_Muhammad#Killing_Dogs

It seems that the links do not take you to the hadiths you are quoting. Maybe the site was updated or whoever created the page made a mistake. I thought you should know.

Specifically, it's the Sahih Muslim 16:2840 and Sahih Muslim 16:2839.

I think the hadiths are Abu-Dawud: http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/abudawud/016-sat.php Paul99 (talk) 5:18, 27 August 2014 (GMT)

Number 5248 in that section you mentioned has a valid link. What specific quotes have broken links? --Axius (talk | contribs) 03:53, 29 August 2014 (PDT)

It was the bottom two hadiths under "The Black Dog is a Devil". Sahih Muslim 16:2840 and Sahih Muslim 16:2839 do not lead to the hadiths quoted, but I found the hadiths in their entirety in Abu-Dawud. You can find them at the top of the page here: http://www.usc.edu/org/cmje/religious-texts/hadith/abudawud/016-sat. I believe that the two Hadith collections were mixed up in the post.Paul99 (talk) 20:11, 30 August 2014 (GMT)

Oh ok, yea I see it now. I fixed those now [14]. Thanks! --Axius (talk | contribs) 15:58, 30 August 2014 (PDT)

SerUm, I checked and it still says and goes to Sahih MMuslim. [User:Paul99|Paul99]] (talk) 16:25, 31 August 2014 (GMT)

Nope, it should be fixed. Check this. --Axius (talk | contribs) 10:05, 31 August 2014 (PDT)

Sorry. My mistake. My computer wasn't working correctly or something. I see it now. :) [User:Paul99|Paul99]] (talk) 1:51, 1 September 2014 (GMT)

Hi, i would like firstly to thank you for the great work. This site helped me a lot during my years of doubt about islam. And i ll give you some feedback from a reader's perspective :

• I think the site has a lot of good articles but it needs more organisation. Maybe making Portals shoud be added to the tasks. For example for islam and science, a Portal would be much more useful than the core article or the unergonomic site Map. In the islam and science portal for example we should find two sections: refutations of quran's miracles like big bang, embryology etc.. and for embryology for example there should be a "subsection" where all the articles should be listed History of embryology, embryology in jewish scriptures, in the quran , in the quran and the hadith... and another section for scientific errors in quran and hadith. Same goes fr other portals.
• About the sources of the quran and hadith, when i was muslim i had to recheck every islamic quote wrote here in its arabic version (my faith made me do it) and it would be better i guess if there was this possibility to see the arabic version just next to the reference.
• I'm gonna try to start translating some articles in French and maybe arabic if i have the time to do it.

Cheers --ArabSagan (talk) 08:49, 8 October 2014 (PDT)

• I prefer a template to portal for all the scientific errors and abrogations but who will bell the cat? New editors are not allowed to edit mainspace. Axius is too busy for long long time and nothing is getting reviewed. Your blank confession will also stay like that. Yes French translations are welcome. Our message must get to France and the whole of French West Africa. Saggy (talk) 13:08, 8 October 2014 (PDT)

Hi. I'm happy to hear you found this site useful. Concerning your queries:

A)

• This is the Islam Portal on Wikipedia, and this is the Islam and Science Core article on WikiIslam. Looking at them both (and leaving aside our Site Map for the moment), I do not see how a Wikipedia style portal would help people find articles quicker than our Core articles. The Wikipedia portals quite frankly are a mess. There appears little order to them or a clear method for new readers to easily find material they are after. Conversely, the TOC on Core articles make it very easy to find articles. And this site probably does not have enough articles per subject to justify a Wikipedia-style Portal which is engulfed in links all over the place (links which would probably require more energy for new readers to decipher, because they are embedded within walls of text).

• Then there is the Site Map which you call "unergonomic". That surprises me a lot, since I cannot think of a more comfortable or easier way of navigating the entire site from a single page.

• You suggest that we should create separate sections; one for Qur'an miracles etc., but we already have separate sections such as the ones you propose, e.g. one of them is indeed "Qur'an miracles".

• There is no need to create a new embryology "subsection", because the embryology articles are already linked from a single heading (see here). We also do not have an "embryology in jewish scriptures" article. We have one that covers reproduction in general, and that is already linked very clearly beneath the "Embryology in Islamic Scripture" section.

So that leaves a couple of things I'd like you to do:

1. Please explain exactly how and why the enormous effort of replacing Core articles with Portals would be beneficial for us.

2. Give us a better way that readers can explore the entire site from a single page.

B) Concerning Arabic; most Muslims do not read, write or speak Arabic and this is a primarily English-language site that only uses trusted scholarly translations, so I don't see any urgency or major benefit from that. Would it be nice to have a link to Arabic versions of all sources? Probably, but it is not realistic. Where is an Arabic-speaking editor who is willing to find all of them and add them to 2,000+ articles (if each article has 50 refs, that makes at least 100,000 links)? Then where are the editors who will check each link for accuracy and maintain these same links from link rot? Like I said, it may be a nice idea, but it has little actual benefit and is not realistic. If an Arabic-speaker, does use the site, like yourself, it is probably best to let them find Arabic versions if they do not trust the English-language versions used by millions of English-speaking Muslims.

I only see one certainty in trying to do this, and that is a negative one. By including links to Arabic versions in only a few articles, this would set up an arbitrary standard that should not exist i.e. someone can then read a perfectly referenced article and then claim, "But this one doesn't have links to Arabic like the other one did", and then discard all the referenced information they had just read.

C) Translations are most welcome. I'm assuming you read those pages I provided you a while ago, but if you need further help, you can ask Axius or I (if I'm around) for help. --Sahab (talk) 13:46, 8 October 2014 (PDT)

I was looking at the "Jihad is Perpetual" subtopic of Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Fighting Non-Muslims and tried to navigate to the link to Sunan Abu Dawud Chapter 14, hadith 2526 specified there. However, it appears that USC has removed the Jihad chapter from Sunan Abu Dawud, and the link goes to Chapter 13 on fasting instead.

I did find a working link to this hadith at Sunnah.com though. It is here: http://sunnah.com/abudawud/15/8

Oddly, that hadith number is 2484, so there seems to be inconsistent hadith numbering scheme between what's specified in the wikiislam link and the one at sunnah.com. The convention used at sunnah.com seems to match up with the translation I have by Nasiruddin al-Khattab.

Indeed you are right, it is not there anymore. I have it in my local copy so yes it was removed from their website. Not sure what to do right now so I'm just going to add this to on our tasks page for now. --Axius (talk | contribs) 14:04, 14 March 2015 (PDT)

Has anybody ever combined the Qur'an, Hadith, and Ishaq/Tabari into a single, chronologically ordered document?

As far as I know it hasnt been done. I think the problem is that there's no knowledge of what happened when, so there could be a lot of variation and no one could say that their version of events is right. Maybe if someone only used important events for which they definitely knew the dates they could try. --Axius (talk | contribs) 17:12, 18 August 2015 (PDT)--Axius (talk | contribs) 17:12, 18 August 2015 (PDT)

ALL LINKS TO VERSES @ usc.edu ARE DEAD. Either a new site must be found, or a possible solution might be to link to an archived version of the pages through one (or more) of the following:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache: [original URL]

https://web.archive.org/web/*/ [original URL]

http://archive.is/ [original URL]

Yaakovaryeh (talk) 17:08, 18 October 2016 (EDT)

Please update HTTP links to QuranX.com to HTTPS.

Thanks for the suggestion (the wikiislam site itself was recently moved to https too). This has now been done. The relevant templates are all included on https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Category:Islamic_text_templates Lightyears (talk) 16:23, 3 August 2018 (UTC)