Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring - Part One: Difference between revisions

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This is part one of a [[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring - Part Two#Part Two: What do Qur’an 18:86 and 18:90 say happened next?|two-part]] article providing a comprehensive examination of the different interpretations of [[Qur'an]] 18:86 and 18:90.
This is part one of a [[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring - Part Two#Part Two: What do Qur’an 18:86 and 18:90 say happened next?|two-part]] article providing a comprehensive examination of the different interpretations of [[Qur'an]] 18:86 and 18:90.


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In verses 19:16; 24:35 and 28:44, gharb (from the same root as maghrib) is used in an adjectival form to mean western or of the west and sharq (from the same root as mashriq) is used in an adjectival form to mean eastern or of the east.
In verses 19:16; 24:35 and 28:44, gharb (from the same root as maghrib) is used in an adjectival form to mean western or of the west and sharq (from the same root as mashriq) is used in an adjectival form to mean eastern or of the east.


Now we shall see that there are at least 4 serious problems with the claim that maghriba a'''l'''shshamsi in 18:86 means the west and matliAAa a'''l'''shshamsi in 18:90 means the east.
Now we shall see that there are at least 5 serious problems with the claim that maghriba a'''l'''shshamsi in 18:86 means the west and matliAAa a'''l'''shshamsi in 18:90 means the east.


===Was alshshams ever used with al maghrib to mean the west?===
===Was alshshams ever used with al maghrib to mean the west?===
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a'''l'''shshams means “the sun”, and the -i suffix (an Arabic ''kasarh'') in 18:86 and 18:90 is for the genitive case, which indicates possession (“of the sun”). When we look at how maghrib is used elsewhere in the Qur’an to mean west (see list above), we see that it is always used as a stand-alone word without a'''l'''shshams, in contrast to 18:86. Why is a'''l'''shshamsi added in 18:86 when it is not in the other instances if not to emphasize a literal meaning? Indeed, a'''l'''shshams is not even used with maghrib when it means the west anywhere in the hadith.<ref name="hadith">Based on searches of the Sunni hadith collections in Arabic using [http://www.ekabakti.com ekabakti.com] and [http://hadith.al-islam.com al-Islam] and [http://www.sunnah.com sunnah.com]</ref>
a'''l'''shshams means “the sun”, and the -i suffix (an Arabic ''kasarh'') in 18:86 and 18:90 is for the genitive case, which indicates possession (“of the sun”). When we look at how maghrib is used elsewhere in the Qur’an to mean west (see list above), we see that it is always used as a stand-alone word without a'''l'''shshams, in contrast to 18:86. Why is a'''l'''shshamsi added in 18:86 when it is not in the other instances if not to emphasize a literal meaning? Indeed, a'''l'''shshams is not even used with maghrib when it means the west anywhere in the hadith.<ref name="hadith">Based on searches of the Sunni hadith collections in Arabic using [http://www.ekabakti.com ekabakti.com] and [http://hadith.al-islam.com al-Islam] and [http://www.sunnah.com sunnah.com]</ref>


Lane’s Lexicon of classical Arabic, long regarded as authoritative and drawing on many classical Arabic dictionaries and sources, says that al maghrib can signify the west, and also the time of sunset, but originally signified the place (or point) of sunset, which it says is the meaning when a'''l'''shshamsi is added.<ref>Lane’s Lexicon - [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume6/00000025.pdf Volume 6/ 25] - StudyQuran.org</ref> Indeed, this is what these words are used to mean elsewhere outside the Qur'an where it clearly means a place where the sun is physically located, as we shall see in section 6.2. As we shall also see in section 6.5, such was a common belief at that time in that region where we find other versions of the same story.
Lane’s Lexicon of classical Arabic, long regarded as authoritative and drawing on many classical Arabic dictionaries and sources, says that al maghrib can signify the west, and also the time of sunset, but originally signified the place (or point) of sunset, which it says is the meaning when a'''l'''shshamsi is added.<ref>Lane’s Lexicon - [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume6/00000025.pdf Volume 6 page 2241] - StudyQuran.org</ref> Indeed, this is what these words are used to mean elsewhere outside the Qur'an where it clearly means a place where the sun is physically located, as we shall see in section 6.2. As we shall also see in section 6.5, such was a common belief at that time in that region where we find other versions of the same story.


===Was al matliAA ever used to mean the east?===
===Was al matliAA ever used to mean the east?===
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If verse 18:90 was about the east, then al mashriq or al sharq would likely have been used, as is always the case elsewhere when the Qur’an mentions the east. Outside 18:86, every verse in the Qur’an that uses maghrib to mean west also uses mashriq to mean east. For aesthetic reasons, we would then also probably replace tatluAAu with tashruqu in 18:90 (both mean “it rising” and are forms of the verbs from which matliAA and mashriq are derived, respectively).  
If verse 18:90 was about the east, then al mashriq or al sharq would likely have been used, as is always the case elsewhere when the Qur’an mentions the east. Outside 18:86, every verse in the Qur’an that uses maghrib to mean west also uses mashriq to mean east. For aesthetic reasons, we would then also probably replace tatluAAu with tashruqu in 18:90 (both mean “it rising” and are forms of the verbs from which matliAA and mashriq are derived, respectively).  


Furthermore, Lane’s Lexicon does not give the slightest indication that matliAA, with or without a'''l'''shshamsi,<ref>Lane’s Lexicon - [http://www.studyQuran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000155.pdf Volume 5/ 155] - StudyQuran.org</ref> nor related words like talaAAa<ref>Lane’s Lexicon - [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000152.pdf Volume 5/ 152] - StudyQuran.org</ref><ref>Lane’s Lexicon - [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000153.pdf Volume 5/ 153] - StudyQuran.org</ref><ref>Lane’s Lexicon - [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000154.pdf Volume 5/ 154] - StudyQuran.org</ref> can be used in an idiom meaning the east. The Lexicon is freely available online and links to cited pages are in the References below.  
Furthermore, Lane’s Lexicon does not give the slightest indication that matliAA, with or without a'''l'''shshamsi,<ref>Lane’s Lexicon - [http://www.studyQuran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000155.pdf Volume 5 page 1870] - StudyQuran.org</ref> nor related words like talaAAa<ref>Lane’s Lexicon - [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000152.pdf Volume 5 page 1867], [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000153.pdf page 1868], and [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000154.pdf page 1869] - StudyQuran.org</ref> can be used in an idiom meaning the east. The Lexicon is freely available online and links to cited pages are in the References below.  


The only place in the hadith<ref name="hadith"></ref> where matliAA might seem to be used in an idiom meaning the east is in Sahih Muslim:
The only place in the hadith<ref name="hadith"></ref> where matliAA might seem to be used in an idiom meaning the east is in Sahih Muslim:
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Better still, these verses would be worded completely differently. Even if one argues that there is some poetic reason to describe the west and east using the words we have in 18:86 and 18:90, it would be an extraordinarily poor choice of words since people reasonably understood them to be about the literal setting and rising places of the sun, as we shall see. How would we know what anything in the Qur’an means if it uses words that commonly (and when the context suggests) mean a particular thing when it really means a different concept, for which it uses a different word everywhere else?
Better still, these verses would be worded completely differently. Even if one argues that there is some poetic reason to describe the west and east using the words we have in 18:86 and 18:90, it would be an extraordinarily poor choice of words since people reasonably understood them to be about the literal setting and rising places of the sun, as we shall see. How would we know what anything in the Qur’an means if it uses words that commonly (and when the context suggests) mean a particular thing when it really means a different concept, for which it uses a different word everywhere else?
===An extraordinary coincidence===
The simplest and perhaps greatest problem for the west-east interpretation is the striking combination of the two key elements in each of verses 18:86 and 18:90. Not only did Dhu’l Qarnayn reach “the setting place of the sun”, but there also he found the sun setting in a certain place. Not only did he reach “the rising place of the sun”, but there he found the sun rising in a certain way.
Thus, an extraordinary coincidence is required. Under this interpretation, it just so happens that straight after the verses inform us that Dhu’l Qarnayn reached places that merely mean the west and east, but are distinctively and literally worded as the setting and rising places of the sun, we are told of the sun’s behaviour.


===Commentators use knowledge unknown to 7th century Arabs===
===Commentators use knowledge unknown to 7th century Arabs===
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Incidentally, at the beginning of the same work in a section about pre-Islamic traditions<ref>Guillaume op. cit. p.12</ref>, Ibn Ishaq quotes some lines of verse by a Yemeni king called Tubba’ who says that Dhu’l Qarnayn witnessed the sun setting in its resting place into a muddy pool. See section 6.5.1 below for a quote by al-Tabari of these same lines.
Incidentally, at the beginning of the same work in a section about pre-Islamic traditions<ref>Guillaume op. cit. p.12</ref>, Ibn Ishaq quotes some lines of verse by a Yemeni king called Tubba’ who says that Dhu’l Qarnayn witnessed the sun setting in its resting place into a muddy pool. See section 6.5.1 below for a quote by al-Tabari of these same lines.


Given all of the problems detailed above (especially that a'''l'''shshamsi is never used when the meaning is merely east or west, that matliAA is never used in a phrase that means the east and the problem of what wajadaha refers to in the next phrases), it is clear that the west/east idiom interpretation of 18:86 and 18:90 cannot be correct.
Given all of the problems detailed above (especially the extraordinary coincidence required by the two elements in each verse; that a'''l'''shshamsi is never used when the meaning is merely east or west; that matliAA is never used in a phrase that means the east; and the problem of what wajadaha refers to in the next phrases), it is clear that the west/east idiom interpretation of 18:86 and 18:90 cannot be correct.


==Second interpretation: He reached [a place at] the time of sunset and sunrise or he reached those times==
==Second interpretation: He reached [a place at] the time of sunset and sunrise or he reached those times==
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In verse 68:39, balagha is used in reference to a covenant “reaching till the day of judgement”, “balighatun ila yawmi alqiyamati” (ila means “till” or “to”). Clearly, you could also speak of a covenant “reaching till the time of sunset”, “balighatun ila maghribi”. However, in these cases balagha has a different meaning to the examples above. Here it refers to the valid duration of the covenant. It always had this duration from the moment it was defined. It always could be said to reach till the day of judgement. Perhaps, when the day of judgement happened it could also be said that the covenant had “reached the day of judgement”, “balagha yawma alqiyamati”. Here it would mean that the covenant had now reached that point on its duration attribute, which can be described in terms of external events. Dhu’l Qarnayn is not like a covenant, as a person has no such attribute (a person’s age is described in terms of personal events and milestones, as we saw above). He could not be described as a man reaching until the day of his death or until sunset.
In verse 68:39, balagha is used in reference to a covenant “reaching till the day of judgement”, “balighatun ila yawmi alqiyamati” (ila means “till” or “to”). Clearly, you could also speak of a covenant “reaching till the time of sunset”, “balighatun ila maghribi”. However, in these cases balagha has a different meaning to the examples above. Here it refers to the valid duration of the covenant. It always had this duration from the moment it was defined. It always could be said to reach till the day of judgement. Perhaps, when the day of judgement happened it could also be said that the covenant had “reached the day of judgement”, “balagha yawma alqiyamati”. Here it would mean that the covenant had now reached that point on its duration attribute, which can be described in terms of external events. Dhu’l Qarnayn is not like a covenant, as a person has no such attribute (a person’s age is described in terms of personal events and milestones, as we saw above). He could not be described as a man reaching until the day of his death or until sunset.


There are some other verses (2:231-232; 2:234-235; 6:128; 7:135; 40:67; 65:2) where balagha is used to refer, in the word-for-word translation, to widows reaching “their term” (ajalahuna), “a prescribed term its end” (alkitabu ajalahu), we (i.e. evil doers) reaching “our term which you appointed for us” (ajalana allathee ajjalta lana), the people of Pharaoh reaching “a term” (ajalin), or the listener addressed by the Qur’an reaching “a term specified” (ajalan musamman). In these verses, ajala means a term or period of duration.<ref>Lane’s Lexicon - [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000062.pdf Volume1/ 00000062] - StudyQuran.org</ref>
There are some other verses (2:231-232; 2:234-235; 6:128; 7:135; 40:67; 65:2) where balagha is used to refer, in the word-for-word translation, to widows reaching “their term” (ajalahuna), “a prescribed term its end” (alkitabu ajalahu), we (i.e. evil doers) reaching “our term which you appointed for us” (ajalana allathee ajjalta lana), the people of Pharaoh reaching “a term” (ajalin), or the listener addressed by the Qur’an reaching “a term specified” (ajalan musamman). In these verses, ajala means a term or period of duration.<ref>Lane’s Lexicon - [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000062.pdf Volume 1 page 25] - StudyQuran.org</ref>


They have the same meaning of balagha as in 46:15 mentioned above (“forty years”, “arbaAAeena sanatan”) where it refers to a period of duration. In these verses the attribute of the person or people or prescribed term is the quantity of time that has passed since the period began and the point that they reach is “the term” or “its end”. As with the age examples, they are not referring to the time of an external event that someone one other than those described as doing the reaching could also reach. Only the widows could be said to reach their term. No one other than Pharaoh’s people could be said to reach the term mentioned in 7:135. Most people reach marriageable age, but on the day when you reached marriageable age, it could not be said (in English or Arabic) that this is something that other people reached on that same day just because they were alive at the time when it happened to you. It was a personal event.  
They have the same meaning of balagha as in 46:15 mentioned above (“forty years”, “arbaAAeena sanatan”) where it refers to a period of duration. In these verses the attribute of the person or people or prescribed term is the quantity of time that has passed since the period began and the point that they reach is “the term” or “its end”. As with the age examples, they are not referring to the time of an external event that someone one other than those described as doing the reaching could also reach. Only the widows could be said to reach their term. No one other than Pharaoh’s people could be said to reach the term mentioned in 7:135. Most people reach marriageable age, but on the day when you reached marriageable age, it could not be said (in English or Arabic) that this is something that other people reached on that same day just because they were alive at the time when it happened to you. It was a personal event.  
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We have now seen how balagha may be used in reference to an event in time. In contrast, the time interpretation of 18:86 and 18:90 requires balagha to mean that Dhu’l Qarnayn reached the time of an external event, not a personal event. Furthermore, Lane’s lexicon defines balagha thus:
We have now seen how balagha may be used in reference to an event in time. In contrast, the time interpretation of 18:86 and 18:90 requires balagha to mean that Dhu’l Qarnayn reached the time of an external event, not a personal event. Furthermore, Lane’s lexicon defines balagha thus:


{{Quote|[http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000287.pdf Lane’s Lexicon: Volume 1/ 62]|The reaching, attaining, arriving at, or coming to, the utmost point of that to which, or towards which, one tends or repairs or betakes himself, to which one directs his course, or which one seeks, pursues, endeavors to reach, desires, intends, or purposes; whether it be a place, or a time, or any affair or state or event that is meditated or intended or determined or appointed: and sometimes, the being at the point thereof: so says Abu-l-Kásim in the Mufradát.}}
{{Quote|[http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume1/00000287.pdf Lane’s Lexicon: Volume 1 page 250]|The reaching, attaining, arriving at, or coming to, the utmost point of that to which, or towards which, one tends or repairs or betakes himself, to which one directs his course, or which one seeks, pursues, endeavors to reach, desires, intends, or purposes; whether it be a place, or a time, or any affair or state or event that is meditated or intended or determined or appointed: and sometimes, the being at the point thereof: so says Abu-l-Kásim in the Mufradát.}}


It is clear here and in the usage of balagha in the Qur’an that even when it is used in reference to a time, that time is distinguished as one that is reached (unlike any other time) because something is intended for that time (e.g. widows can remarry after waiting their term, a righteous man prays for gratitude when he is 40 years old etc.). The wajada phrases suggest that Dhu’l Qarnayn’s intention for his reaching would have been to find out what the sunset and sunrise looked like. This shows why the time interpretation would suffer from one of the contextual problems mentioned above (you needn’t follow a road to reach the time of sunset).
It is clear here and in the usage of balagha in the Qur’an that even when it is used in reference to a time, that time is distinguished as one that is reached (unlike any other time) because something is intended for that time (e.g. widows can remarry after waiting their term, a righteous man prays for gratitude when he is 40 years old etc.). The wajada phrases suggest that Dhu’l Qarnayn’s intention for his reaching would have been to find out what the sunset and sunrise looked like. This shows why the time interpretation would suffer from one of the contextual problems mentioned above (you needn’t follow a road to reach the time of sunset).
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Lane’s Lexicon indicates that a ''sabab'' (which Dhu’l Qarnayn follows to reach his destinations and is translated way / means / road in 18:84, 18:85, 18:89, and 18:92) is a means to an end:
Lane’s Lexicon indicates that a ''sabab'' (which Dhu’l Qarnayn follows to reach his destinations and is translated way / means / road in 18:84, 18:85, 18:89, and 18:92) is a means to an end:


{{Quote|[http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume4/00000009.pdf Lane’s Lexicon: Volume4/ 9]|A thing (S, M, Msb, K) of any kind (S, Msb, K) by means of which one attains, reaches or gains access to another thing}}
{{Quote|[http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume4/00000009.pdf Lane’s Lexicon: Volume4 page 1285]|A thing (S, M, Msb, K) of any kind (S, Msb, K) by means of which one attains, reaches or gains access to another thing}}


Clearly, the setting place of the sun could be such an end, but reaching the time of sunset makes no sense as an end to which this ''sabab'' is a means. It is also worth mentioning that Kevin Van Bladel has written some interesting things about what may be the real meaning of this word.<ref>Van Bladel 2007a op. cit. pp.223-246.
Clearly, the setting place of the sun could be such an end, but reaching the time of sunset makes no sense as an end to which this ''sabab'' is a means. It is also worth mentioning that Kevin Van Bladel has written some interesting things about what may be the real meaning of this word.<ref>Van Bladel 2007a op. cit. pp.223-246.
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We now look at explicit statements in the hadith about the sun (regardless of whether or not these hadith authentically reflect Muhammad utterances, they do at least show some of the contemporary beliefs of the early Muslims, which help us judge the likelihood that Muhammad could have believed and intended a literal interpretation of 18:86 and 18:90). Afterwards we shall look at some early commentaries, pre-Islamic poetry and a highly significant contemporary legend.
We now look at explicit statements in the hadith about the sun (regardless of whether or not these hadith authentically reflect Muhammad utterances, they do at least show some of the contemporary beliefs of the early Muslims, which help us judge the likelihood that Muhammad could have believed and intended a literal interpretation of 18:86 and 18:90). Afterwards we shall look at some early commentaries, pre-Islamic poetry and a highly significant contemporary legend.
Before we begin, it’s worth noting that in the same article just mentioned<ref>Van Bladel 2007a op. cit.</ref>, Van Bladel describes how Christian theologians in the region of Syria in the sixth century CE shared the view that the Earth was flat and the sky or heaven was like a tent above the Earth, based on their reading of the Hebrew scriptures. This was a rival view to that of the churchmen of Alexandria who supported the Ptolemaic view of a spherical Earth surrounded by celestial spheres. He says, “Clearly the Ptolemaic cosmology was not taken for granted in the Aramaean part of Asia in the sixth century. It was, rather, controversial.”


====Hadith====
====Hadith====
 
We saw above some of the hadith that describe the sun having setting and rising places which it goes into and comes out from. The following hadith is graded Sahih (authentic) by Dar-us-Salam (Hafiz Zubair 'Ali Za'i) and has a chain of narration graded as Sahih by al-Albani. It is from Sunan Abu Dawud, book XXV - Kitab Al-Ahruf Wa Al-Qira’at (Book of Dialects and Readings Of The Qur’an):
We saw above some of the hadith that describe the sun having setting and rising places which it goes into and comes out from. S. Shamoun quotes the following hadith, which has chain of narration graded as Sahih (authentic) by al-Albani, from Sunan Abu Dawud, book XXV - Kitab Al-Ahruf Wa Al-Qira’at (Book of Dialects and Readings Of The Qur’an):


{{Quote||Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water.<ref>Kitab Al-Ahruf Wa Al-Qira’at [Book of Dialects and Readings Of The Qur’an], Chapter 1498, p. 1120 in Prof. Ahmad Hasan (trans.), Sunan Abu Dawud – English Translation With Explanatory Notes, Volume III. Chapters 1338-1890, XXV, hadith 3991, Lahore: Sh. Muhammad Ashraf, 1984 quoted in [http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/mhmd_on_sunset.html Muhammad and the Sun’s Setting Place] - Sam Shamoun, Answering Islam</ref> [The references section includes a link to the Arabic<ref>For the Arabic, see #4002 [http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=192&TOCID=1520&BookID=28&PID=3490 here] and for the Arabic, English, and grading by al-Albani, see [http://sunnah.com/abudawud/32/34 here]</ref>]}}
{{Quote||Abu Dharr said: I was sitting behind the Apostle of Allah who was riding a donkey while the sun was setting. He asked: Do you know where this sets? I replied: Allah and his Apostle know best. He said: It sets in a spring of warm water.<ref>Kitab Al-Ahruf Wa Al-Qira’at [Book of Dialects and Readings Of The Qur’an], Chapter 1498, p. 1120 in Prof. Ahmad Hasan (trans.), Sunan Abu Dawud – English Translation With Explanatory Notes, Volume III. Chapters 1338-1890, XXV, hadith 3991, Lahore: Sh. Muhammad Ashraf, 1984 quoted in [http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/shamoun/mhmd_on_sunset.html Muhammad and the Sun’s Setting Place] - Sam Shamoun, Answering Islam</ref> [The references section includes a link to the Arabic<ref>For the Arabic, see #4002 [http://hadith.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=192&TOCID=1520&BookID=28&PID=3490 here] and for the Arabic, English, and grading by al-Albani, see [http://sunnah.com/abudawud/32/34 here]</ref>]}}


He also gives another version of the hadith in Musnad Ahmad (this time the spring is muddy rather than warm - the Arabic words sound similar and the same variant readings exist for Qur’an verse 18:86). The same hadith is also recorded by al-Zamakhshari (1075-1143 CE) in his commentary on the Qur’an, al-Kashshaf.<ref>For a translation see Al-Zamakhshari, Al-Kashshaf 3rd Edition, Volume 2, p. 743, Lebanon: Dar Al-Kotob Al-Ilmiyah, 1987 quoted in (trans.) [http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Shabir-Ally/science11.htm Science in the Quran/ Chapter 11: The Sun & Moon and Their Orbits] - Sam Shamoun, Answering Islam (''The phrase translated “spring of slimy water” is actually, “hot spring” in the Arabic. For the Arabic, click [http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=2&tSoraNo=18&tAyahNo=86&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=1 here]'')</ref> Even if one doubts that this is an authentic report about Muhammad, it is certainly further evidence that early Muslims understood 18:86 to mean a literal setting place. The possibility that Muhammad ever claimed a different interpretation thus further diminishes.
There is also another version of the hadith in Musnad Ahmad (this time the spring is muddy rather than warm - the Arabic words sound similar and the same variant readings exist for Qur’an verse 18:86). The same hadith is also recorded by al-Zamakhshari (1075-1143 CE) in his commentary on the Qur’an, al-Kashshaf.<ref>For a translation see Al-Zamakhshari, Al-Kashshaf 3rd Edition, Volume 2, p. 743, Lebanon: Dar Al-Kotob Al-Ilmiyah, 1987 quoted in (trans.) [http://www.answering-islam.org/Responses/Shabir-Ally/science11.htm Science in the Quran/ Chapter 11: The Sun & Moon and Their Orbits] - Sam Shamoun, Answering Islam (''The phrase translated “spring of slimy water” is actually, “hot spring” in the Arabic. For the Arabic, click [http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=2&tSoraNo=18&tAyahNo=86&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=1 here]'')</ref> Even if one doubts that this is an authentic report about Muhammad, it is certainly further evidence that early Muslims understood 18:86 to mean a literal setting place. The possibility that Muhammad ever claimed a different interpretation thus further diminishes.


There are also numerous sahih hadith that state that the sun rises and sets between the horns of Satan, for example:
There are also numerous sahih hadith that state that the sun rises and sets between the horns of Satan, for example:
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{{Quote||(Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun) where the sun sets, (he found it setting in a muddy spring) a blackened, muddy and stinking spring; it is also said that this means: a hot spring…<ref>[http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=18&tAyahNo=86&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2 Sura 18 Verse 86] - Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs</ref>}}
{{Quote||(Till, when he reached the setting place of the sun) where the sun sets, (he found it setting in a muddy spring) a blackened, muddy and stinking spring; it is also said that this means: a hot spring…<ref>[http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=18&tAyahNo=86&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2 Sura 18 Verse 86] - Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs</ref>}}


For 18:90 ''Tafsir al-Jalalayn'' by al-Mahalli and completed by Siyuti in 1505 CE has:
''Tafsir al-Thalabi'' (also known as ''Al-Kashf wa-l-bayān''; 11th century CE) reports the following view for verse 18:86:
 
{{Quote||until, when he reached the rising of the sun, the place where it rises, he found it rising on a folk, namely, Negroes (zanj), for whom We had not provided against it, that is, [against] the sun, any [form of] cover, in the way of clothing or roofing, as their land could not support any structures; they had underground tunnels into which they would disappear at the rising of the sun and out of which they would emerge when it was at its highest point [in the sky].<ref>[http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=18&tAyahNo=86&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2 Sura 18 Verse 86] - Tafsir al-Jalalayn</ref>}}


Note that this only makes sense if the sun being at its highest point means it has literally moved further away from the people.
{{Quote||Abu al-Aliya said: I was informed that the sun is in a spring; the spring casts it to the East [al mashriq]<ref>[https://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=75&tSoraNo=18&tAyahNo=86&tDisplay=yes&Page=2&Size=1&LanguageId=1 Sura 18 Verse 86] - Tafsir al-Thalabi</ref>}}


Newton quotes similar reports from other commentaries on 18:90.<ref name="P. Newton"></ref> These commentators or the reports that they quote understand these verses to mean literal setting and rising places. It is clear from the hadith contained in hadith collections and commentaries that there was interest in what happens to the sun when it is beyond view, so if Muhammad had given another interpretation there would surely be hadith to indicate as such, yet there is none.
The views reported in these commentaries understand these verses to mean literal setting and rising places (most early commentators include no opinion). It is clear from the hadith contained in hadith collections and commentaries that there was interest in what happens to the sun when it is beyond view, so if Muhammad had given another interpretation there would surely be hadith to indicate as such, yet there are none.


====A close similarity with the Syriac legend about Alexander the Great====
====A close similarity with the Syriac legend about Alexander the Great====
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Before getting into specific arguments that people have raised against the ism makan interpretation, we will briefly address a subtly different way of interpreting the phrases maghriba alshshamsi and matliAAa a'''l'''shshamsi, which might occur to some people.
Before getting into specific arguments that people have raised against the ism makan interpretation, we will briefly address a subtly different way of interpreting the phrases maghriba alshshamsi and matliAAa a'''l'''shshamsi, which might occur to some people.


The root word from which maghrib is derived is gharaba, meaning “to set” in the context of the sun. This word also means “to go away” such that something can no longer be seen.<ref>Lane’s Lexicon - [http://www.studyQuran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume6/00000024.pdf Volume 6/ 24] - StudyQuran.org</ref> Thus one might argue that maghriba a'''l'''shshamsi is the area of land on the horizon, from Dhu’l Qarnayn’s perspective, behind which the sun disappears at sunset. On the other hand, matliAA is derived from talaAAa, meaning “to rise”<ref>Lane’s Lexicon - [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000152.pdf Volume 5/ 152] - StudyQuran.org</ref> in the context of the sun. Could matliAAa a'''l'''shshamsi be the place on the horizon that the sun rises from behind?
The root word from which maghrib is derived is gharaba, meaning “to set” in the context of the sun. This word also means “to go away” such that something can no longer be seen.<ref>Lane’s Lexicon - [http://www.studyQuran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume6/00000024.pdf Volume 6 page 2240] - StudyQuran.org</ref> Thus one might argue that maghriba a'''l'''shshamsi is the area of land on the horizon, from Dhu’l Qarnayn’s perspective, behind which the sun disappears at sunset. On the other hand, matliAA is derived from talaAAa, meaning “to rise”<ref>Lane’s Lexicon - [http://www.studyquran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume5/00000152.pdf Volume 5 page 1867] - StudyQuran.org</ref> in the context of the sun. Could matliAAa a'''l'''shshamsi be the place on the horizon that the sun rises from behind?


The first problem with that explanation is that there are no single places on the Earth behind which the sun seems to set and rise, but rather it depends on the observer’s location. Perhaps we can suppose that maghriba alshshamsi means the point on the horizon that the sun disappeared behind from the perspective of Dhu’l Qarnayn’s starting position, so it was not a moving target. That’s reading quite a lot into the text. Even this makes no sense given the context. Why follow a special road / way to get there, and why then mention the sun setting, now hidden by a 2<sup>nd</sup> horizon? Why describe both the 18:86 and 18:90 destinations in those terms? Another problem is that if maghriba means the disappearing place or the place where the sun goes away, can you really describe a place on the horizon as the place where a much more distant object disappears? It seems more natural that the place where something disappears would be in the same location as the thing that is disappearing. An ism makan, after all, is the place where an action occurs. Since the Earth’s rotation hides the sun from a location-specific viewpoint, a literal horizon interpretation doesn’t work as an ism makan, but a specific place that the sun literally sets into does work. A similar set of arguments applies to matliAAa.
The first problem with that explanation is that there are no single places on the Earth behind which the sun seems to set and rise, but rather it depends on the observer’s location. Perhaps we can suppose that maghriba alshshamsi means the point on the horizon that the sun disappeared behind from the perspective of Dhu’l Qarnayn’s starting position, so it was not a moving target. That’s reading quite a lot into the text. Even this makes no sense given the context. Why follow a special road / way to get there, and why then mention the sun setting, now hidden by a 2<sup>nd</sup> horizon? Why describe both the 18:86 and 18:90 destinations in those terms? Another problem is that if maghriba means the disappearing place or the place where the sun goes away, can you really describe a place on the horizon as the place where a much more distant object disappears? It seems more natural that the place where something disappears would be in the same location as the thing that is disappearing. An ism makan, after all, is the place where an action occurs. Since the Earth’s rotation hides the sun from a location-specific viewpoint, a literal horizon interpretation doesn’t work as an ism makan, but a specific place that the sun literally sets into does work. A similar set of arguments applies to matliAAa.
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{{Quote||(They all float, each in an orbit.) means, night and day, the sun and the moon, all of them are floating, i.e., revolving, in their orbits in the heaven. This was the view of Ibn ‘Abbas, `Ikrimah, Ad-Dahhak, Al-Hasan, Qatadah and `Ata’ Al-Khurasani. Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, and others among the Salaf said, “In an orbit like the arc of a spinning wheel.”<ref name="Tafsir Ibn Kathir">[http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1487 Among the Signs of the Might and Power of Allah are the Night and Day, and the Sun and Moon] - Tafsir Ibn Kathir</ref>}}
{{Quote||(They all float, each in an orbit.) means, night and day, the sun and the moon, all of them are floating, i.e., revolving, in their orbits in the heaven. This was the view of Ibn ‘Abbas, `Ikrimah, Ad-Dahhak, Al-Hasan, Qatadah and `Ata’ Al-Khurasani. Ibn `Abbas, may Allah be pleased with him, and others among the Salaf said, “In an orbit like the arc of a spinning wheel.”<ref name="Tafsir Ibn Kathir">[http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1487 Among the Signs of the Might and Power of Allah are the Night and Day, and the Sun and Moon] - Tafsir Ibn Kathir</ref>}}


He comments on verse 31:29:
However, he comments on verse 31:29 that ibn 'Abbas also said that the sun runs in the sky / heaven (alssama) in its rounded course (falakha) during the day, and when it sets it runs at night (bi al-layli - omitted in the translation) in its falak beneath the Earth:


{{Quote||(It goes and prostrates beneath the Throne, then it seeks permission from its Lord, and soon it will be said: “Go back from whence you came.”) Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn ’Abbas said, “The sun is like flowing water, running in its course in the sky during the day. When it sets, it travels in its course beneath the earth until it rises in the east.” He said, “The same is true in the case of the moon.” Its chain of narration is Sahih.<ref>[http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1784 The Might and Power of Allah Allah tells us that He] - Tafsir Ibn Kathir</ref>}}
{{Quote||(It goes and prostrates beneath the Throne, then it seeks permission from its Lord, and soon it will be said: “Go back from whence you came.”) Ibn Abi Hatim recorded that Ibn ’Abbas said, “The sun is like flowing water, running in its course in the sky during the day. When it sets, it travels in its course beneath the earth until it rises in the east.” He said, “The same is true in the case of the moon.” Its chain of narration is Sahih.<ref>[http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1784 The Might and Power of Allah Allah tells us that He] - Tafsir Ibn Kathir. See [http://quran.al-islam.com quran.al-islam.com] for the Arabic.</ref>}}


However, we saw above in the hadith given by al-Tabari that belief in the sun circling the sky above a flat Earth and setting and rising in springs was believed to be compatible with the “falakin” phrase in the Qur’an:
Moreover, we saw above in the hadith given by al-Tabari that belief in the sun circling the sky above a flat Earth and setting and rising in springs was believed to be compatible with the “falakin” phrase in the Qur’an:


{{Quote||He continued. God created an ocean three ''farsakhs'' (18 kilometers) removed from heaven. Waves contained, it stands in the air by the command of God. No drop of it is spilled. All the oceans are motionless, but that ocean flows at the rate of the speed of an arrow. It is set free to move in the air evenly, as if it were a rope stretched out in the area between east and west. The sun, the moon, and the retrograde stars run in its deep swell. This is (meant by) God’s word: “Each swims in a sphere.” “The sphere” is the circulation of the chariot in the deep swell of that ocean.<ref>Al-Tabari, History of al-Tabari, op. cit. p.235</ref>}}
{{Quote||He continued. God created an ocean three ''farsakhs'' (18 kilometers) removed from heaven. Waves contained, it stands in the air by the command of God. No drop of it is spilled. All the oceans are motionless, but that ocean flows at the rate of the speed of an arrow. It is set free to move in the air evenly, as if it were a rope stretched out in the area between east and west. The sun, the moon, and the retrograde stars run in its deep swell. This is (meant by) God’s word: “Each swims in a sphere.” “The sphere” is the circulation of the chariot in the deep swell of that ocean.<ref>Al-Tabari, History of al-Tabari, op. cit. p.235</ref>}}
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In any case, falak does not necessarily mean a sphere. Arabs would have understood the phrase to mean a hemisphere, as Lane’s Lexicon entry for al falak defines the word:
In any case, falak does not necessarily mean a sphere. Arabs would have understood the phrase to mean a hemisphere, as Lane’s Lexicon entry for al falak defines the word:


{{Quote|[http://www.studyQuran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume6/00000227.pdf Lane’s Lexicon: Volume 6/ 227]|The place of the revolving of the stars; (O, K, TA;) [the celestial sphere: but generally imagined by the Arabs to be a material concave hemisphere; so that it may be termed the vault of heaven; or the firmament:]}}
{{Quote|[http://www.studyQuran.org/LaneLexicon/Volume6/00000227.pdf Lane’s Lexicon: Volume 6 page 2243]|The place of the revolving of the stars; (O, K, TA;) [the celestial sphere: but generally imagined by the Arabs to be a material concave hemisphere; so that it may be termed the vault of heaven; or the firmament:]}}


Thus no conflict was seen between the falakin phrase in the Qur’an and the setting and rising places interpretation for 18:86 and 18:90.
Thus no conflict was seen between the falakin phrase in the Qur’an and the setting and rising places interpretation for 18:86 and 18:90.
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*[[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring - Part Two|Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring (Part Two)]]
*[[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring - Part Two|Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring (Part Two)]]
*[[Did Muhammad and the early Muslims know that the Earth is round|Did Muhammad and the Earliest Muslims Know the Earth is Round?]]
{{Hub4|Dhul-Qarnayn|Dhul-Qarnayn}}
{{Hub4|Dhul-Qarnayn|Dhul-Qarnayn}}
{{Hub4|Cosmology|Cosmology}}
{{Hub4|Cosmology|Cosmology}}
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[[Category:Islam and Science]]
[[Category:Islam and Science]]
[[Category:Qur'an]]
[[Category:Qur'an]]
[[Category:Martin Taverille]]
[[Category:Dhul-Qarnayn]]
[[Category:Islamic mythology]]
{{page_title|Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring (Part One)}}
{{page_title|Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring (Part One)}}
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