398
edits
Quran and a Universe from Smoke: Difference between revisions
Jump to navigation
Jump to search
→Analysis: Added a link to the Science and the Seven Earths page which now analyses the claim the nearest sky/heaven is our modern universe - as the apologist claim is also completely dependent on this definition (as well as 'smoke' meaning general gases).
| [checked revision] | [checked revision] |
No edit summary |
(→Analysis: Added a link to the Science and the Seven Earths page which now analyses the claim the nearest sky/heaven is our modern universe - as the apologist claim is also completely dependent on this definition (as well as 'smoke' meaning general gases).) |
||
| (3 intermediate revisions by 2 users not shown) | |||
| Line 60: | Line 60: | ||
:the gaseous products of burning materials especially of organic origin made visible by the presence of small particles of carbon.<ref>{{cite web|url= http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/smoke|title= Smoke|publisher= Merrian-Webster|author= |date=accessed December 19, 2013 |archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.merriam-webster.com%2Fdictionary%2Fsmoke&date=2013-12-19|deadurl=no}}</ref>}}There is no similarities between the early universe and smoke. There was no burning of material, especially of organic compounds in the early universe. Organic molecules would not exist for another 10 billion years. Even carbon did not exist at this stage and it would not exist for millions of years until it was first fused in the center of giant stars. The early universe was extremely dense and smoke is not dense at all; in fact smoke is completely vaporous. Smoke can be hot, but often is not. It is the hot gas close to the burning material that can make smoke hot, but the carbon particles that linger in the air can be quite cool. | :the gaseous products of burning materials especially of organic origin made visible by the presence of small particles of carbon.<ref>{{cite web|url= http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/smoke|title= Smoke|publisher= Merrian-Webster|author= |date=accessed December 19, 2013 |archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.merriam-webster.com%2Fdictionary%2Fsmoke&date=2013-12-19|deadurl=no}}</ref>}}There is no similarities between the early universe and smoke. There was no burning of material, especially of organic compounds in the early universe. Organic molecules would not exist for another 10 billion years. Even carbon did not exist at this stage and it would not exist for millions of years until it was first fused in the center of giant stars. The early universe was extremely dense and smoke is not dense at all; in fact smoke is completely vaporous. Smoke can be hot, but often is not. It is the hot gas close to the burning material that can make smoke hot, but the carbon particles that linger in the air can be quite cool. | ||
''(Separately the apologist's claim also relies on the word for the sky/heaven(s) (al-samaa السماء) meaning our Universe, which is itself highly problematic; see the analysis in: [[Science and the Seven Earths]]).'' | |||
===Single-Word Description=== | ===Single-Word Description=== | ||
The claim presupposes that the Qur'anic author must describe the earliest phase of the universe using a single word. However, no one would be convinced if a scientist, purporting to be an expert in cosmology, put together a paper on the formation of stars and only described it in a single word. Even apologists realize that a single-word description is not adequate to convey such a complex topic, which is why they use multiple words to describe this state of the universe and even a short paragraph to make their point. One has to wonder why the Qur'anic description is so sparse and inadequate given how easy it would have been for [[Allah]] to have conveyed such information. | The claim presupposes that the Qur'anic author must describe the earliest phase of the universe using a single word. However, no one would be convinced if a scientist, purporting to be an expert in cosmology, put together a paper on the formation of stars and only described it in a single word. Even apologists realize that a single-word description is not adequate to convey such a complex topic, which is why they use multiple words to describe this state of the universe and even a short paragraph to make their point. One has to wonder why the Qur'anic description is so sparse and inadequate given how easy it would have been for [[Allah]] to have conveyed such information. | ||
| Line 80: | Line 83: | ||
:'''“Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?...” (Quran 21:30)'''}}However, the entire Qur'anic verse nor any of the surrounding verses are quoted. Here is the verse, in its proper context:{{Quote|{{Quran-range|41|9|12}}|9. Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters): Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days, and ascribe ye unto Him rivals? He (and none else) is the Lord of the Worlds.<BR>10. He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days, alike for (all) who ask;<BR>11. '''Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke''', and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient.<BR>12. Then He ordained them seven heavens in two Days and inspired in each heaven its mandate; and We decked the nether heaven with lamps, and rendered it inviolable. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Knower.}}In verses 9-10, the Qur'an states that Allah created the earth before he created the heavens. It provides a clear chronological account of the earth being formed first and then the hills and sustenance are created upon it. Only after the earth has been created does he look toward the heaven to create the stars. This is made apparent in the second half of verse 11 when Allah speaks to both the heaven and the earth; unless the earth had been created first, how could he speak to it? It is known from radiometric dating that the earth formed about 4.5 billion years ago, almost 9 billion years after the Universe first expanded.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html |title=Age of the Earth |publisher=U.S. Geological Survey |author=|date= July 9, 2007|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpubs.usgs.gov%2Fgip%2Fgeotime%2Fage.html&date=2013-12-19|deadurl=no}}</ref> The author of the Qur'an was not aware of this fact and claims that the earth and this "smoke" were in existence at the same time. In verse 12, the Qur'an says it is only then that the stars are created. | :'''“Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?...” (Quran 21:30)'''}}However, the entire Qur'anic verse nor any of the surrounding verses are quoted. Here is the verse, in its proper context:{{Quote|{{Quran-range|41|9|12}}|9. Say (O Muhammad, unto the idolaters): Disbelieve ye verily in Him Who created the earth in two Days, and ascribe ye unto Him rivals? He (and none else) is the Lord of the Worlds.<BR>10. He placed therein firm hills rising above it, and blessed it and measured therein its sustenance in four Days, alike for (all) who ask;<BR>11. '''Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke''', and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient.<BR>12. Then He ordained them seven heavens in two Days and inspired in each heaven its mandate; and We decked the nether heaven with lamps, and rendered it inviolable. That is the measuring of the Mighty, the Knower.}}In verses 9-10, the Qur'an states that Allah created the earth before he created the heavens. It provides a clear chronological account of the earth being formed first and then the hills and sustenance are created upon it. Only after the earth has been created does he look toward the heaven to create the stars. This is made apparent in the second half of verse 11 when Allah speaks to both the heaven and the earth; unless the earth had been created first, how could he speak to it? It is known from radiometric dating that the earth formed about 4.5 billion years ago, almost 9 billion years after the Universe first expanded.<ref>{{Cite web|url=http://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/geotime/age.html |title=Age of the Earth |publisher=U.S. Geological Survey |author=|date= July 9, 2007|archiveurl= http://www.webcitation.org/query?url=http%3A%2F%2Fpubs.usgs.gov%2Fgip%2Fgeotime%2Fage.html&date=2013-12-19|deadurl=no}}</ref> The author of the Qur'an was not aware of this fact and claims that the earth and this "smoke" were in existence at the same time. In verse 12, the Qur'an says it is only then that the stars are created. | ||
The Qur'an also describes the process of creation of both the 'heavens', stars, and the Earth and its sustenance as one with continuous active participation from God (i.e., not just for the creation of existence itself), rather than a natural consequence of the rules of physics once the initial universe was created, contrary to modern scientific theories which have mapped out the process (based on physics) from the Big Bang to the present moment.<ref>''[https://science.nasa.gov/mission/webb/early-universe/ Early Universe: Search for the first galaxies or luminous objects that formed after the big bang]''. James Webb Space Telescope. NASA.</ref><ref>''[https://science.nasa.gov/mission/webb/early-universe/ The Big Bang.]'' NASA.</ref> | |||
These verses also states the 'lamps, which are stars, were created/put in the closest heaven after the Earth was already in existence, contrary to scientific consensus that the stars were created first (and are continuously being destroyed and created naturally), with our own sun considered to be a third generation star.<ref>''[https://mobile.arc.nasa.gov/public/iexplore/missions/pages/yss/november.html Formation of the Solar System: Birth of Worlds.]'' Mobile.arc. NASA.</ref> In fact the majority of elements that make up Earth are believed to come from stars.<ref>''[https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/are-we-really-made-of-stardust.html Are we made of stardust?]'' Kerry Lotzof quoting Dr Ashley King. Natural History Museum website. </ref> There is also no differentiation in the process between the creation stars and planets (which formed similarly and at a cosmically similar time to Earth in our solar system) which were both believed to make up the lamps in the sky, as planets were believed to simply be moving stars.<ref>See for example [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Fixed_Stars ''The Book of Fixed Stars''] by Abd al-Rahman al-Sufi ~ 964AD. Only after [https://science.nasa.gov/solar-system/moon/galileos-observations-of-the-moon-jupiter-venus-and-the-sun/ Galileo's direct observations] (d. 1642) from his refined telescope did the understanding of them as 'worlds' begin to become more widespread. | |||
</ref> | |||
===Correct Arabic Word=== | ===Correct Arabic Word=== | ||
The Arabic word for "gas" is ''gaz'' or ''ghaz'' (غاز), not ''dukhan''. It is this word which should have been used to describe the state of the universe if the above verse were correct. | The Arabic word for "gas" is ''gaz'' or ''ghaz'' (غاز), not ''dukhan''. It is this word which should have been used to describe the state of the universe if the above verse were correct. | ||
===Support from Scientists=== | ===Support from Scientists=== | ||
The final piece of evidence is the claim that a renowned geologist supports the view that the information in the Qur'an could not have been of human origin:{{quote||Dr. Alfred Kroner is one of the world’s renowned geologists. He is Professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geosciences, Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany. He said: “Thinking where Muhammad came from . . . I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years, with very complicated and advanced technological methods, that this is the case.” Also he said: “Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin.”}}While Dr. Alfred Kroner was a geology professor in | The final piece of evidence is the claim that a renowned geologist supports the view that the information in the Qur'an could not have been of human origin:{{quote||Dr. Alfred Kroner is one of the world’s renowned geologists. He is Professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geosciences, Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany. He said: “Thinking where Muhammad came from . . . I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years, with very complicated and advanced technological methods, that this is the case.” Also he said: “Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heavens had the same origin.”}}While Dr. Alfred Kroner was a geology professor in Germany, he never endorsed the Qur'an as being an accurate source of scientific information. A video interview conducted with Kroner in 2011 confirms that his comments from the 80s were taken out of context.<ref>{{cite web|url= http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClHuG880pqU|title= Alfred Kröner - Quote mined scientist denounces Quran miracle claims|publisher= YouTube (video)|author= TheRationalizer|date= March 21, 2011|archiveurl= |deadurl=no}}</ref> He currently does not endorse the Qur'anic view of creation nor did he at the time of the original interview. He affirms that parts of the Qur'an are not supported by modern scientific evidence and are completely unscientific and mythical. | ||
==Conclusion== | ==Conclusion== | ||
The entire argument rests on the Qur'anic description of the "heavens" as "smoke"; a claim which in-turn rests on a false equivalence made between smoke and the makeup of the early universe. It also presupposes that the Qur'anic author must describe something as complex as the earliest phase of the universe using only a single word. A presupposition that makes little sense and is far from convincing when you consider how such information could have validated the authenticity of the Qur'anic message. | The entire argument rests on the Qur'anic description of the "heavens" as "smoke"; a claim which in-turn rests on a false equivalence made between smoke and the makeup of the early universe. It also presupposes that the Qur'anic author must describe something as complex as the earliest phase of the universe using only a single word. A presupposition that makes little sense and is far from convincing when you consider how such information could have validated the authenticity of the Qur'anic message. | ||