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Early Islamic Cosmology: Difference between revisions
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added some ibn Kathir stuff
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Given that Ibn Taymiyyah cites these scholars, the narrations he then uses to support spherical heavens (when asked about the shape of both the heavens and Earth), were presumably the best they could come up with. If a consensus for a round Earth went back to Muhammad and the companions, surely the scholars could come up with better than this feeble evidence. | Given that Ibn Taymiyyah cites these scholars, the narrations he then uses to support spherical heavens (when asked about the shape of both the heavens and Earth), were presumably the best they could come up with. If a consensus for a round Earth went back to Muhammad and the companions, surely the scholars could come up with better than this feeble evidence. | ||
Even the already | Even the already dubious claims of just a ''scholarly'' consensus are further undermined when we read Tafsir al-Jalalayn, which was written centuries later by two people who were not trying to massage the Qur'an to fit a round Earth reality. For {{Quran|88|20}} we read the following: | ||
{{Quote|1=[http://main.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=88&tAyahNo=20&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2 Tafsir al-Jalalayn for Qur'an 88:20]|2=As for His words sutihat ‘laid out flat’ this on a literal reading suggests that the earth is flat which is the opinion of most of the scholars of the revealed Law and not a sphere as astronomers (ahl al-hay’a) have it even if this latter does not contradict any of the pillars of the Law.}} | {{Quote|1=[http://main.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=88&tAyahNo=20&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2 Tafsir al-Jalalayn for Qur'an 88:20]|2=As for His words sutihat ‘laid out flat’ this on a literal reading suggests that the earth is flat which is the opinion of most of the scholars of the revealed Law and not a sphere as astronomers (ahl al-hay’a) have it even if this latter does not contradict any of the pillars of the Law.}} | ||
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===The sky is a dome above the Earth=== | ===The sky is a dome above the Earth=== | ||
In his tafsir for {{Quran|2|22}}, al-Tabari includes narrations from some of the | In his tafsir for {{Quran|2|22}}, al-Tabari includes narrations from some of the earliest Muslims about the sky being a dome or ceiling over the Earth: | ||
{{Quote|1=[http://quran.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=221&BookID=13&Page=1 Tafsir al-Tabari for 2:22]<BR>See also the English translation from [https://islaambooks.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/the-commentary-on-the-quran-volume-i-tafsir-al-tabari.pdf J. Cooper's abridged translation of Tafsir al-Tabari]<ref>The commentary on the Qur'an, by Abu Ja'far Muhammad b. Jarir al- Tabari ; being an abridged translation of Jami' al-bayan 'an ta'wil ay al-Qur'an, with an introduction and notes by J. Cooper, general editors, W.F. Madelung, A. Jones. Oxford University Press, 1987. p.164</ref>|2= | {{Quote|1=[http://quran.al-islam.com/Page.aspx?pageid=221&BookID=13&Page=1 Tafsir al-Tabari for 2:22]<BR>See also the English translation from [https://islaambooks.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/the-commentary-on-the-quran-volume-i-tafsir-al-tabari.pdf J. Cooper's abridged translation of Tafsir al-Tabari]<ref>The commentary on the Qur'an, by Abu Ja'far Muhammad b. Jarir al- Tabari ; being an abridged translation of Jami' al-bayan 'an ta'wil ay al-Qur'an, with an introduction and notes by J. Cooper, general editors, W.F. Madelung, A. Jones. Oxford University Press, 1987. p.164</ref>|2= | ||
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"...and the sky a canopy..." The canopy of the sky over the earth '''is in the form of a dome''', and it is a roof over the earth. And Bishr bin Mu'az narrated and said from Yazid from Sa'id from Qatada in the words of Allah "...and the sky a canopy..." He says he makes the sky your roof.}} | "...and the sky a canopy..." The canopy of the sky over the earth '''is in the form of a dome''', and it is a roof over the earth. And Bishr bin Mu'az narrated and said from Yazid from Sa'id from Qatada in the words of Allah "...and the sky a canopy..." He says he makes the sky your roof.}} | ||
Ibn Kathir in his tafsir for {{Quran|13|2}} has yet more narrations of the sahabah and tabi'un (2nd generation) on this topic: | |||
{{Quote|1=[http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2321 Tafsir ibn Kathir for Qur'an 13:2]|2=Allah said next, (..without any pillars that you can see.) meaning, `there are pillars, but you cannot see them,' according to Ibn `Abbas, Mujahid, Al-Hasan, Qatadah, and several other scholars. Iyas bin Mu`awiyah said, "The heaven is like a dome over the earth," meaning, without pillars. Similar was reported from Qatadah, and this meaning is better for this part of the Ayah, especially since Allah said in another Ayah, (He withholds the heaven from falling on the earth except by His permission.) 22:65 Therefore, Allah's statement, (..that you can see), affirms that there are no pillars. Rather, the heaven is elevated (above the earth) without pillars, as you see. This meaning best affirms Allah's ability and power.}} | |||
===The Earth on the back of a whale=== | ===The Earth on the back of a whale=== | ||
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Islamic apologists have failed to provide any evidence that Muhammad or the earliest Muslims knew that the Earth was round. In contrast, there is lots of evidence to show them believing the Earth to be flat. | Islamic apologists have failed to provide any evidence that Muhammad or the earliest Muslims knew that the Earth was round. In contrast, there is lots of evidence to show them believing the Earth to be flat. | ||
This evidence can be used as a foundation for other arguments concerning the flat Earth verses in the Qur'an, that they cause a justifiably suspicion that the author of the Qur'an was just as unaware as his nearby contemporaries about the shape of the Earth. It can also be used to make the point that it is a secondary major weakness of the Qur'an to use such language when it will inevitably encourage 7th century Muslims to maintain their false notion that the Earth is flat (and indeed for many centuries later for some Muslims, such as al-Suyuti in his Tafsir al-Jalalyn). | This evidence can be used as a foundation for other arguments concerning the flat Earth verses in the Qur'an, that they cause a justifiably suspicion that the author of the Qur'an was just as unaware as his nearby contemporaries about the shape of the Earth. It can also be used to make the point that it is a secondary major weakness of the Qur'an to use such language when it will inevitably encourage 7th century Muslims to maintain their false notion that the Earth is flat (and indeed for many centuries later for some Muslims, such as al-Suyuti in his Tafsir al-Jalalyn, and ibn Kathir in his Tafsir<ref>See also ibn Kathir's tafsir for verses ([http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=410 2:229], [http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2645&Itemid=76 21:33], [http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1487 36:38], and [http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2128&Itemid=97 41:9-12], in all of which he says the heavens are a dome or roof or like the floors of a building over the Earth</ref>). | ||
==External links== | ==External links== | ||