User talk:Lehrasap

IbnPinker (talk | contribs) asmith (talk | contribs) Exmoose (talk | contribs)

Re: new page proposal

This is a new article which I was unable to find at wikiislam.

Since I don't have the right to create new Pages, therefore I had to publish this new article at my talk page (which luckily I am able to edit).

Therefore, I request you to please create a new page for this article, so that I could transfer it there. Thanks.

Hey Kamran! Sorry again that no one got back to you sooner on this, someone certainly should have (I was myself traveling and unable to access the wiki). Will look to see editor's requests aren't neglected in this manner going forward. Three things regarding your page proposal:

1) I will discuss with other admins whether this topic is large enough to merit its own wiki page.

2) personally, I don't think this topic is vast or complicated enough to merit its own page, but I do think it is an important topic (i.e. it appears that the quran actually claims god is expanding universe and this is not just some crazy apologetic interpretation) and so should be included on the wiki. I think you should add this topic as a subsection to the Cosmology of the Quran page. Your write up looks pretty good here, although I might edit some language after you post it there (but everything on the wiki is always a work in progress, so no problem there). Just to note quickly, though: don't use fighting language - think of your role as documentary ("modern Islamic scholars say xyz" not "modern Muslim apologists have deliberately and deceptively altered the meaning of..." - see the difference?). As frustrating as it might be, its not our place to accuse Islamic scholars of being "deliberately deceptive apologists", etc. - they may be that, but that's for others to decide. The wiki's goal is just to communicate what they say. Using antagonistic language just alienates those on the fence about leaving Islam, which is our most important audience. Cool?

3) thirdly, and this too is no fault of yours, but you should have been provided with a sandbox page to prep this write up. The talk page should only be used for talking. Sorry you were not provided this sooner. I'm going to move your draft to your personal sandbox, which I just made here: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/User:Kamranlashari/Sandbox_1. You can also use these sandboxes I've made for you: https://wikiislam.net/wiki/User:Kamranlashari/Sandbox_2 & https://wikiislam.net/wiki/User:Kamranlashari/Sandbox_3.

Thanks for your patience and sorry for the delay getting back to you.

IbnPinker (talk) 20:24, 22 August 2021 (UTC)

Quranic Miracle: Universe is steadily expanding

Modern Muslims du'aah have made the claim that the expansion of the universe was foretold in the Qur'an. This claim was never made before the discovery by modern science that the universe is constantly expanding, and moreover a close reading of the text makes clear that the Qur'an does not actually claim it.

They present the following translation of the verse 51:47:

Zakir Naik writes regarding this verse:

Criticism

Critics point out that the term “lamūsi‘ūn لَمُوسِعُونَ ” in this verse is a "NOUN"  and not a "Verb", and it describes "God" and not the "heaven" (i.e. the term “wa-innā lamūsi‘ūn وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ” means "God is the Expander", and not "the Universe is Expanding").

Thus the earlier Quran Translators translated it as under:

Moreover, the root word of لَمُوسِعُونَ (lamūsiʿūna) is و س ع . However in Quran, this word and it's derivatives have been used in the meanings of "Encompassing".

Look at the following verses:

Also see verses 7:89 and 20:98.

Also see verse 65:12, where directly the word of "احاط" (encompass) has been used instead of "wasi'a"

ٖThus few translator used this figurative meaning:

Critics also point out that exactly the same grammar has been used in the next verse 51:48.

In this verse, the word الْمَاهِدُونَ (spreader/smoother) has exactly the same grammar ^[1] as the word لَمُوسِعُونَ (i.e. expander) in the previous verse, but no one translated it as "earth is steadily spreading out".

Critics point out that the modern Muslim apologists have deliberately and deceptively altered the meaning of 51:47 in three ways:

• They have translated “heaven” as “universe” in the attempt to make the Qur’an sound conceptually more sophisticated than it really is, and to provide a stronger basis for his second and more significant distortion.
• They then not only translates the Arabic noun for “We are the expander” into a verb meaning “universe is expanding,”
• And then they add the entirely superfluous adverb “steadily” in an attempt to insert into the Qur’an additional ideas that are not actually there.

With these three translational liberties, modern Muslim apologists have completely changed the meaning of this aya from a simple description of Allah’s creation of the heavens into a scientific statement of Hubble’s expanding universe that is not actually contained in the Qur’an.

Universe consists of "Space", while Quranic HEAVEN is a solid canopy which could not expand

Critics also point out that according to science, universe consists of space and galaxies are travelling away from each other in this space and thus it is considered as an expansion of the universe.

But according to the writer of Quran, :

The word translated as canopy is binaa or binaan ( بِنَاء ). This word means "building"^[2]. Here, the heavens are described as a multi-story building over the earth. There are seven layers or stories to this building called the heavens. The heavens are built on a foundation called "the earth". The tafsir of Ibn Kathir, among others, elaborates this^[3]:

And according to the tradition in Sahih Bukhari, prophets are residing upon these solid heavens along with their nations, and solid things don't expand

References: