WikiIslam:Sandbox/EDIT THIS PART: Difference between revisions

== '''Introduction''' ==

== Ancient beliefs around stars and meteors pre-Islam ==

Though there is no direct stories of the functions of star in this way in the bible (or biblical literature), Dr Julien Decharneux notes in book exploring the connections between the cosmology of the Qur’ān and various cosmological traditions of Late Antiquity, with a focus on Syriac Christianity,<ref>[https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783110794083/html?lang=en#:~:text=About%20this%20book,a%20focus%20on%20Syriac%20Christianity. https://www.degruyter.com/document/doi/10.1515/9783110794083/html?lang=en#:~:text=About%20this%20book,a%20focus%20on%20Syriac%20Christianity.]</ref> there are some general motifs that link to this imagery. However he notes it is much more likely rooted in Iranian mythology: (CHECK CONTRADICTIONS){{Quote|Decharneux, Julien. Creation and Contemplation: The Cosmology of the Qur'ān and Its Late Antique Background (Studies in the History and Culture of the Middle East Book 47) (pp. 316-317). De Gruyter.|The image of fallen angels trying to approach the firmament in order to listen to the heavenly council is found in the Talmud. Crone in fact already notes the presence of the motif in the first-century Greek Testament of Solomon. Here however, demons are not chased by fiery missiles, but they themselves look like shooting stars after falling from the sky out of exhaustion. Although a systematic skimming of the sources would probably reveal the presence of the motif of stars chasing demons away from the heavenly council in patristic and Christian apocryphal literature, our sources show that it was still lively in the imagery of the 8th century in the Church of the East. Theodore bar Koni, in his Scolion, discusses the activity of demons:  

Stars and visible planets were often called the same thing ([https://corpus.quran.com/qurandictionary.jsp?q=kwkb#(82:2:2) kawakib ٱلْكَوَاكِبِ]) due to their similar appearance, with stars appearing 'fixed' and planets notably moving, usually differentiated by astronomers by labelling them respectively. This is confirmed by astrologists such as Abd al-Rahman al-Sufi (Azophi) who around 964 wrote the astronomical [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Book_of_Fixed_Stars book of fixed stars] كتاب صور الكواكب kitāb suwar ''al-kawākib''.  

 

As professor David Cook notes, '<nowiki/>''Eventually in Arabic, najm generally came to mean “a fixed star” while kawkab “a planetary body” but there are plenty of exceptions to this rule. Planets were believed to be moving stars.'''<ref>https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007/978-94-007-7747-7_8525</ref>

[https://corpus.quran.com/search.jsp?q=constellations Burūj بُرُوجًا] means great stars or constellations (or towers); Surah 85 (Al-Burūj) is called [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Burooj The Great Star].  

"We were with the Messenger of Allah (ﷺ), while he was sitting with a group of his Companions, when they saw a glowing shooting star. The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'When you saw the likes of this during Jahiliyyah, what would you say about it?' They said: 'We would say that a great man died, or that a great man has been born.' The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said: 'It is not shot due to the death of anyone, nor his coming into life. Rather when our Lord [Blessed is His Name and Most High] decrees a matter, He is glorified by the bearers of the Throne. Then He is glorified by the inhabitants who are below them, then those below them, until such glorification reaches this Heaven. Then the inhabitants of the sixth Heaven ask the inhabitants of the seventh Heaven: "What did your Lord say?" He said: 'So they inform them; then the inhabitants of each Heaven seek the information, until the news is conveyed to the inhabitants of the Heavens of the earth. The Shayatin try to overhear so they are shot at, so they cast it down to their friends. Whatever they came with is true, as it is, but they distort it and add to it.'"}}Showing this reinforcing the incorrect idea of stars being shooting stars and gives us a fourth word for stars as confirmation.

 

As mentioned in the introduction, while stars are giant balls of gas thousands of times larger than the earth, meteors are now known to be distinct from the distant stars, being small rocky masses or grains of debris which burn up after entering the earth's atmosphere. They are often not much larger than grains of sand and only become visible for a second when they burn up, generating light in the Earth's atmosphere. Many ancient people confused the two, as meteors look like stars that are streaking across the sky; this is why they were often called shooting stars or falling stars.

Large increases in meteors occur on a predictable schedule each year as the Earth's orbit passes through the stream of particles and debris left in the wake of a number of comets (or in a few cases, of asteroids). The most visible is usually the annual [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseids Perseid meteor shower] in August, which easily look like stars with flames being used a weapon in the sky, pelting the area.  

Stars do not actually 'burn' or cause flame which is caused by chemical burning on Earth needing oxygen.<ref>[https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24733000-900-lighting-fires-in-space-is-helping-us-make-greener-energy-on-earth/#:~:text=Fires%20can't%20start%20in,in%20strange%20and%20beautiful%20ways. https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24733000-900-lighting-fires-in-space-is-helping-us-make-greener-energy-on-earth/#:~:text=Fires%20can't%20start%20in,in%20strange%20and%20beautiful%20ways.]</ref> Stars burn via nuclear fusion instead with no flame.

 

 

Meteor showers look like stars 'pelting' from every side. Meteor showers were of unknown cause to 7th Century Arabs, as the later (than the Quran's writing) historian and geographer [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya%27qubi Al-Ya'qubi] reports several meteor showers that happened just before and during Muhammad's lifetime (In 571 AD and 609 AD), attributing them to shooting stars (and planets) striking devils<ref name=":0" />, with the multitude of them potentially leading to the idea they are 'pelted from every side'. Further Muslim historians such as [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_%27Idhari Ibn 'Idhari] and [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Jawzi Ibn al-Jawzi] confirm this understanding, with a summary of their assessment of meteor showers held in this Royal Astronomical Society [https://articles.adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?bibcode=1992QJRAS..33....5R&db_key=AST&page_ind=6&plate_select=NO&data_type=GIF&type=SCREEN_GIF&classic=YES publication].

Some apologist, for example, the highly influential [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abul_A'la_Maududi Ala-Maududi] (d. 1979 AD) writing in light of much more modern science in his modern tasfir wrote:{{Quote|{{cite web| url=https://myislam.org/surah-al-mulk/ayat-5/#:~:text=Ala%2DMaududi,9. | title= Tasfir Ala-Maududi 67.5}}|This does not mean that the stars themselves are pelted at the Satans, nor that the meteorites shoot out only to drive away the Satans, <b>but it means that the countless meteorites which originate from the stars and wander in space at tremendous speeds and which also fall to the earth in a continuous shower prevent the Satans of the earth from ascending to the heavens.</b> Even if they try to ascend heavenward these meteorites drive them away. This thing has been mentioned here because the Arabs believed about the soothsayers, and this also was the claim made by the soothsayers themselves, that the Satans were under their control, or that they had a close contact with them, and through them they received news of the unseen, and thus, could foretell the destinies of the people. That is why at several places in the Quran, it has been stated that there is absolutely no possibility for the Satans ascending to the heavens and bringing news of the unseen. For explanation, see (Surah Al-Hijr, ayat 16-18) note 9-12, (Surah As-Saaffat, ayat 7-10) note 6,7. As for the truth about meteorites, man’s information in this regard is still without a scientific basis. However, the theory which seems best to account for all the facts known today and the information gathered from the examination of the meteorites fallen on the earth, is that meteorites originate from the disintegration of one or more planets and wander in space and sometimes fall to the earth under its gravitational pull. (See Encyclopedia Britannica, vol. XV, under Meteorites).}}

1. Qur'an does not state that the shooting stars 'come from stars' (mostly many billions of years ago), which would be very easy to do - so put bluntly this simply isn't what is being said in the text. It is the stars themselves that are a protection and are thrown. I.e. you state that something is a missile, all rules of grammar and logic lead you to assume that it's the thing that is mentioned that is the missile, not something that part of it get its elements from after going through many other processes to become an asteroid or meteor become billions of years later.  

2. Meteors do not even come directly from stars, but rather form asteroids and comets either hitting earth or occasionally breaking into Mars or the Moon, with the debris getting burned up in Earths atmosphere (see bottom section 'Further Science and the Argument of Meteors'). It is only true to say all the elements which make up everything (and not just space debris) in the universe were once part of a star.

3. In light of the previous point, naming stars/lamps/constellations as a protection is a totally pointless link to make as they have nothing to do with the story, which should focus only on the flames if meteors were what was being mentioned. The stars could have been described as being made for anything else in the universe, yet they only are in this context where it is easy for a human to confuse the two.  

In other words, this has involved twisting the text into something that isn't there. Also see bottom section ('Further Science and the Argument of Meteors') that planets disintegrating is not an accurate description of the phenomena.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abul_A'la_Maududi Ala-Maududi] (d. 1979 AD) also wrote:{{Quote|{{cite web| url=https://myislam.org/surah-al-hijr/ayat-18/ | title= Tasfir Ala-Maududi 15.18}}|In Arabic the word shihab-i-mubin literally means a fiery flame. In Surah (Surah As-Saffat, Ayat 10), the same thing has been called shihab-i-thaqib (flame that pierces through darkness). This may or may not necessarily be a meteor for it is just possible that it may be some type of rays such as cosmic rays or even a stronger type which we have not been able to discover as yet. Anyhow, if the fiery flame that pursues Satans may be taken to be a meteor, a countless number of these can form a fortification around our sphere of the universe. Scientific observations made with the help of the telescope have shown that billions of these meteors are rushing from space in a mass of rainfall. towards the earth’s atmosphere. Such a scene was witnessed in an eastern pan of North America on November 13, 1833. This is so strong a fortification that it can prevent Satans from passing through any fortified sphere.}}''Note the meteor shower being referred to here Leonid Meteor Storm, where fragments of ice, rock, and dust left behind by the Comet Tempel-Tuttle. About every 33 years, the Leonid meteor shower intensifies, increasing the possibility of a dazzling display of lights.<ref>https://blog.newspapers.com/november-12-13-1833-the-night-the-stars-fell/</ref> This comes from a predictable pattern of material left behind by the comet entering earths atmosphere and burning up,<ref>https://www.rmg.co.uk/stories/topics/leonid-meteor-shower-when-and-where-see-it-uk</ref> they do not actually form a flame in space which is impossible due to there being no oxygen.<ref>https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg24733000-900-lighting-fires-in-space-is-helping-us-make-greener-energy-on-earth/#:~:text=Fires%20can't%20start%20in,in%20strange%20and%20beautiful%20ways</ref>''

Two alternative interpretations popular in modern times are that the Quran is referring to coronal mass ejections (large eruptions of charged matter from the sun or other stars), or cosmic rays (high energy, sub-atomic particles travelling through interstellar space). However, coronal mass ejections move slowly in cosmic terms, disperse over distance and do not come from surprise directions (Quran 37:8 states that the devils are pelted from every side, and pursued by a piercing flame if they escape with anything they overheard). Cosmic rays do not emit light as they travel through space and therefore nor could these be the flaming missiles of fire and smoke in the Quran.

There is also nothing said of their function of holding planetary systems together,<ref>https://science.nasa.gov/astrophysics/focus-areas/how-do-stars-form-and-evolve/</ref> which could have easily been done by differentiation fixed stars from moving stars, and shown genuine scientific foreknowledge.

== Further science and the argument of meteors ==

=== '''Further Science and the argument of meteors''' ===

Although not the main argument of this page, which is to show the conflation of stars and meteors (shooting stars), it is worth noting the absurdity of meteors being used as weapons as many apologists claim, in light of modern science.

'''Meteors, meteorites and asteroids:'''

Clarifying the technical definitions again: Asteroids are rocky bodies in space found in space.<ref>https://www.amnh.org/explore/news-blogs/on-exhibit-posts/meteor-meteorite-asteroid</ref>

This is problematic as despite there being many millions of objects in the asteroid belt, the average distance between them is ~600,000 miles (about 1 million km).<ref>https://earthsky.org/space/what-is-the-asteroid-belt/</ref> Making them very difficult to use for a protection as the angels could only be close to a maximum of one at a time, having to move millions of miles to pick up another, leaving them unable to ward off one if they miss just once, or one coming after another at different points in time, or multiple using any flanking method. <u>Especially to line up with 'pelted every side', which only appears to match a meteor shower.</u>

 

 

Therefore, for them to make a 'clear flame' by turning into meteors, this would have to be thrown a minimum ~179.5 million km / 111.5 million miles while the jinn are still in the Earths atmosphere, with the flame 'pursuing them' for only a tiny fraction of the process (<0.01%), adding to the problematic nature of these verses.

'''Comets'''

Comets, which are the other source (~6%) of meteors, are arguably just as if not more problematic than asteroids. These are similar to asteroids, however they aren't just made of rock but also frozen gases, ice and dust that orbit the Sun.<ref><nowiki>https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/asteroids-comets-and-meteors/comets/overview/?page=0&per_page=40&order=name+asc&search=&condition_1=102%3Aparent_id&condition_2=comet%3Abody_type%3Ailike</nowiki></ref>

Similar to asteroids in the asteroid belt, the source of comets are from extremely distant sections of the solar system, the Kuiper belt (beyond Neptune) being the closest source, and the Oorb field far beyond Pluto (which is itself only theorised).

The inner edge of the Kuiper Belt begins at the orbit of Neptune and a distance of around 2.8 billion miles (4.8 billion kilometers) from the sun, with its main concentration of bodies ending at around 4.6 billion miles (7.4 billion km) from the star. It's thickness is approximately ~930 million miles (~1.5 billion kilometers / (10AU)).<ref>[https://www.e-education.psu.edu/astro801/content/l11_p8.html#:~:text=The%20Kuiper%20Belt%20is%20a,Belt%20is%20approximately%2010%20AU. https://www.e-education.psu.edu/astro801/content/l11_p8.html#:~:text=The%20Kuiper%20Belt%20is%20a,Belt%20is%20approximately%2010%20AU.]</ref> The Kuiper Belt is far larger than the main asteroid belt, up to 20 times as wide and 20 to 100 times it's mass according to Nine Planets. In fact, astronomers estimate there are hundreds of thousands of objects in the region that are larger than 60 miles (100 kilometers) wide or larger, and potentially trillions overall, however, the total mass of all the material in the Kuiper Belt is estimated to be no more than about 10% of the mass of Earth.<ref>https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/solar-system/kuiper-belt/overview/</ref>  Occasionally, one will break of from this orbit and reach the inner solar system, though for one to come anywhere near Earth is rare,<ref>https://www.space.com/comets.html</ref><ref>https://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/7721/how-near-to-earth-do-comets-pass</ref> and for two that also happen to be appropriately sized, to be near enough to be used as objects is near impossible, ''making them extremely sparse for use as weapons to pelt jinn from every side from.''

As mentioned briefly earlier, ''comets do not make flames or have fire at their head'', but ice melting and disintegrating under a barrage of solar radiation. For this reason, they only sprout a tail near the sun. In fact the tails direction more influenced by direction of the sun than the Comet trajectory.<ref>[https://www.lpi.usra.edu/education/explore/comets/background/#:~:text=Because%20sunlight%20and%20solar%20wind,is%20moving%20in%20its%20orbit. https://www.lpi.usra.edu/education/explore/comets/background/#:~:text=Because%20sunlight%20and%20solar%20wind,is%20moving%20in%20its%20orbit.]</ref> Comet ion tails are comprised of glowing lightweight gases ionised by UV light, this reflecting sunlight, not a flame.<ref><nowiki>https://www.google.com/amp/s/solarsystem.nasa.gov/asteroids-comets-and-meteors/comets/in-depth.amp</nowiki></ref> These do not match the ''flaming pursuing lamps of the jinn - which would be scientifically inaccurate''. When they are far from their stars comets are just cold dark space bodies movies on a highly eccentric ellipse path.

To burn up in the atmosphere to create an actual flame would require them being thrown distances of usually hundreds of millions of miles to finally create a flame near Earth, other than an unbelievably rare instance of close planet encounters.

'''Actual cause - Meteor Showers'''

As meteor shower occurs when the Earth passes through the trail of debris left by a comet or asteroid.<ref>https://www.nasa.gov/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/741990main_ten_meteor_facts.pdf</ref> It is extremely rare for them to cause I meteor directly, but right theory meteorites could come from meteors from them directly from the few 'near' Earth (it's extremely rare for one to come within 0.1AU of Earth),<ref>ttps://astronomy.stackexchange.com/questions/7721/how-near-to-earth-do-comets-pass#:~:text=It%20is%20rare%20for%20a,with%200.1%20AU%20of%20Earth.</ref> but none (meteorites) have been traced indefinitely.

Comets main meteors are caused by the earth rotating through the dust left behind

'''For reviewers - mention point of final section is to counter incorrect myth online that its is simply referring to heavenly bodies.'''