Dhul-Qarnayn and the Sun Setting in a Muddy Spring - Part Two: Difference between revisions

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→‎External Links: Added a very well-researched blog on this topic, clearly laying out the early literal views on this in chronological order, and two minor sentences of extra points in the main article.
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m (→‎Wajada in Lane’s Lexicon: Just put the transliteration to highlight the right row - so no-one accidentally thinks by 2nd bottom row this includes the definitions row, and therefore that 'wajada' could be either rightfully/wrongly thought..)
(→‎External Links: Added a very well-researched blog on this topic, clearly laying out the early literal views on this in chronological order, and two minor sentences of extra points in the main article.)
 
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It is argued that if Allah claims that the sun really set in a spring, wajada would be omitted.<ref>Hesham Azmy - [http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/sun_setting_in_murky_water___by_hesham_azmy_ Sun Setting in Murky Water? Refuting a repetitive missionary allegation] - Call To Monotheism</ref>
It is argued that if Allah claims that the sun really set in a spring, wajada would be omitted.<ref>Hesham Azmy - [http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/sun_setting_in_murky_water___by_hesham_azmy_ Sun Setting in Murky Water? Refuting a repetitive missionary allegation] - Call To Monotheism</ref>


However, this passage is an account about Dhu’l Qarnayn, so we should expect each statement to be phrased in a way that makes clear how it relates in some way to him and what he did (in this case finding the thing that was the objective of his journey). We saw above various early commentaries giving reports of people explicitly stating that it was understood to mean that the sun actually sets in a spring.
However, this passage is an account about Dhu’l Qarnayn, so we should expect each statement to be phrased in a way that makes clear how it relates in some way to him and what he did (in this case finding the thing that was the objective of his journey). And to state the obvious, one cannot find the sun setting in a muddy spring if it didn't set in a muddy spring. We saw above various early commentaries giving reports of people explicitly stating that it was understood to mean that the sun actually sets in a spring.  


===Does verse 18:83 mean it is just Dhu’l Qarnayn’s recollection of the events?===
===Does verse 18:83 mean it is just Dhu’l Qarnayn’s recollection of the events?===


Another way of supporting the claim that the entire story is the point of view of Dhu’l Qarnayn is to use the last two Arabic words of verse 18:83 to suggest that this is meant to be merely how Dhu’l Qarnayn remembered it:<ref>[http://www.faithfreedom.com/anti_islamic_claims/zulqarnain.html The polemics, and not Zul-Qarnain, are in murky waters!] - Faithfreedom (''not to be confused with the [http://www.faithfreedom.org/ original FaithFreedom] site by Dr. Ali Sina'')</ref>
Another way of supporting the claim that the entire story is the point of view of Dhu’l Qarnayn ''(it is worth noting here that apologists are not proposing any other story of prophets in the Qur'an are from someone's imperfect perspective rather than Allah telling us their real historical account)'' is to use the last two Arabic words of verse 18:83 to suggest that this is meant to be merely how Dhu’l Qarnayn remembered it:<ref>[http://www.faithfreedom.com/anti_islamic_claims/zulqarnain.html The polemics, and not Zul-Qarnain, are in murky waters!] - Faithfreedom (''not to be confused with the [http://www.faithfreedom.org/ original FaithFreedom] site by Dr. Ali Sina'')</ref>  


{{Quote|{{Quran|18|83}}|They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnayn. Say, ‘I will rehearse to you something of his story.’}}
{{Quote|{{Quran|18|83}}|They ask thee concerning Zul-qarnayn. Say, ‘I will rehearse to you something of his story.’}}
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Even if there were not the problems explained above, it would be rather ridiculous to suppose that this passage is meant to be Allah explaining in his own words how he fits into someone else’s mistaken recollection.
Even if there were not the problems explained above, it would be rather ridiculous to suppose that this passage is meant to be Allah explaining in his own words how he fits into someone else’s mistaken recollection.


Given the fact that the story is actually meant to be understood as being told by Allah from Allah’s point of view, and the fact that wajadaha cannot mean he incorrectly thought or it falsely appeared as such to him, and that the things found are described literally, verse 18:86 means that according to Allah, Dhu’l Qarnayn reached the place where the sun sets and actually found the sun setting in a spring. Verse 18:86 would have had to include in the statement some words (some options were examined above) to indicate that this was just Dhu’l Qarnayn mistakenly thinking he had found it or his opinion of what it looked like if that is all it was from Allah’s point of view because this is supposed to be Allah’s account of the incident.
Given the fact that the story is actually meant to be understood as being told by Allah from Allah’s point of view, and the fact that wajadaha cannot mean he incorrectly thought or it falsely appeared as such to him, and that the things found are described literally, verse 18:86 means that according to Allah, Dhu’l Qarnayn reached the place where the sun sets and actually found the sun setting in a spring. Verse 18:86 would have had to include in the statement some words (some options were examined above) to indicate that this was just Dhu’l Qarnayn mistakenly thinking he had found it or his opinion of what it looked like if that is all it was from Allah’s point of view because this is supposed to be Allah’s account of the incident.  


==Is the story intended as a fable or metaphor?==
==Is the story intended as a fable or metaphor?==
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==External Links==
==External Links==


*[https://theislamissue.wordpress.com/2022/05/16/the-early-muslims-and-the-sun-in-the-spring/ The early Muslims and the sun in the spring] - The Islam Issue
*[https://web.archive.org/web/20130828002043/http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/235012104-apostates-why-did-you-leave-islam/page-3#entry2566325 Forum discussion showing Shi'ite hadith also confirm a literal meaning to the sun "setting in a muddy spring"]
*[https://web.archive.org/web/20130828002043/http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?/topic/235012104-apostates-why-did-you-leave-islam/page-3#entry2566325 Forum discussion showing Shi'ite hadith also confirm a literal meaning to the sun "setting in a muddy spring"]
*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVwizsojd1Y&t=28s Does the Quran really say the Sun sets in a muddy spring?] - The Masked Arab - ''YouTube video''
*[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVwizsojd1Y&t=28s Does the Quran really say the Sun sets in a muddy spring?] - The Masked Arab - ''YouTube video''
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