User:CPO675/Sandbox 1: Difference between revisions

Jump to navigation Jump to search

User:CPO675/Sandbox 1 (view source)

Revision as of 17:08, 30 August 2024

13,035 bytes removed ,  30 August
→‎Historical Jesus Practice
Line 213: Line 213:


== Historical Jesus Practice ==
== Historical Jesus Practice ==
Like many biblical characters, the Qur'an contains verses relating to the Christian [[Isa al-Masih (Jesus Christ)|Jesus (named Isa)]], whom it affirms was really a prophet of Allah and 'the messiah'; <s>though it is unclear what this means exactly, with many different Islam interpretations. [1]</s> (see Isa page for a theological discussion). Unlike in the bible, the Qur'an states he is just a human and not the son of God <nowiki>{{Quran|4|171}}</nowiki> (e.g. <nowiki>{{Quran|17|111}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Quran|2|116}}</nowiki>),


He is said to have preached 'the gospel/Injeel', similarly to how Moses was given the Torah (<nowiki>{{Quran|5|46}}</nowiki> and Muhammad the Qur'an. This has lead to the dominant Islamic position is that the New Testament we have (which contains 4 'gospels') is a corrupted/changed document that does not match his original teachings.[2] Therefore Muslims disregard the Christian Jesus as essentially an altered version of the real one, who allegedly was not actually crucified <nowiki>{{Quran|4|157}}</nowiki>[14] <s>nor ever claimed to be the son of God (e.g. <nowiki>{{Quran|17|111}}</nowiki> <nowiki>{{Quran|2|116}}</nowiki>), which ~600 years later was clarified</s>
However while Muslims may reject the biblical Jesus on theological/faith-based grounds alone, there has been much secular scholarship for more than 200 years seeking to reconstruct the real historical Jesus (independently from Islamic studies) from historical-critical methods rather than Christian theological/faith-based one's, whose results conflict with the Qur'anic one in key ways.
<nowiki>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------</nowiki>
The Qur'an includes references to Jesus (referred to as Isa in Islam), acknowledging him as a prophet of Allah and the Messiah, <s>but with unclear implications that have led to various interpretations in Islam.</s> Unlike the Christian Bible, the Qur'an portrays Jesus as a human being similar to other messengers, not the son of God (E.g. <nowiki>{{Quran|4|171}}</nowiki>, <nowiki>{{Quran|17|111}}</nowiki> and <nowiki>{{Quran|2|116}}</nowiki>). <s>He was also not  actually crucified <nowiki>{{Quran|4|157}}</nowiki>[14].</s>
It states that Jesus preached the gospel (Injeel) but suggests [[:en:Qur'an,_Hadith_and_Scholars:Corruption_of_Previous_Scriptures|it has been corrupted]], and though what these means exactly is debated (see: https://www.wikiislam.net/wiki/Corruption_of_Previous_Scriptures), however the mainstream Sunni view is that the Christian Scripture (known as the New Testament containing 4 'gospels'), does not reflect Jesus's original teachings. [2] 
While Muslims reject the Christian view of Jesus based on theological grounds, secular scholarship has also long sought to reconstruct the historical Jesus through critical methods <s>rather than faith-based one's</s>, of which the results differ greatly from the Qur'anic portrayal.
----
''<br />While it would be futile to try and summarise many academic works in a small webpage section, as always academics are cited for those who want to read more. This will cover some of the key findings.
'''Imminent Apocalyptic Preacher'''
Analysis of the sources written closest to Jesus's life <s>recorded by early Christians, while does not necessarily match the contemporary Christian view of Jesus, goes against the Qur'ans historical claims.  which the New Testament aims to record (even if not perfectly),</s> has lead to a consensus view that Jesus and his original followers believed the 'apocalypse',  i.e. judgment day in Islam; <s>the end of history where the forces of evil would be destroyed and the righteous would enter the kingdom of heaven,</s> would happen within his lifetime.
As biblical scholar Albert Schweitzer famously pointed out in his seminal 1906 work 'The Quest of the Historical Jesus', Jesus’s failed prophecy was not a small one-off tradition but a core part of his preaching.[3] Only in later writings did this message begin to be subverted for a metaphorical kingdom of Earth of those who join Jesus's followers believing in salvation and the resurrection [4] I.e. only the later books in the New Testament cannon began to reinterpret these apocalyptic messages as the expected return of Jesus didn’t materialize, suggesting a more spiritual interpretation of the "Kingdom of God." This reinterpretation is seen as an attempt to reconcile early Christian beliefs with the reality that the world didn't end as expected. [7]
Jesus was estimated have lived between before 4BCE[16] died approximately in year of 30 CE (for Jesus’ crucifixion).[17] The books that make up the New Testament, documenting Jesus's life and teachings, (and believed by Christians to be divinely inspired writings to cover his teachings, death and salvation) are again consensus to be written in order of seven authentic letters of Paul followed the first Gospel, Mark (~C. 70 C.E), two more inauthentic (source) letters from Paul, followed by The Gospel of Matthew and then The Gospel of Luke, (both~ 80-90 C.E.), five more inauthentic letters attributed to Paul (ibid), followed by The Gospel of John (~90-100 C.E.), with the Book of Revelations and several more inauthentic letters attributed to Paul after that.[5] The books/letters and their dates are as follows:[5]
Date Approximated Dating 1 Thessalonians (Pauls letter) C. 49 C.E. Galatians C. 49-51 C.E. 1 Corinthians C. 54-55 C.E. 2 Corinthians C. 55-56 C.E. Romans C. 56-57 C.E. Philemon 55 C.E. or 61-63 C.E. Philippians C. 59-62 C.E. The Gospel of Mark C. 70 C.E. 2 Thessalonians 70-90 C.E. 1 Peter 70-110 C.E. The Gospel of Matthew 80-90 C.E. The Gospel of Luke 80-90 C.E. The Acts of the Apostles 80-90 C.E. Colossians 80-100 C.E. Ephesians 80-100 C.E. The Epistle to the Hebrews 80-100 C.E. The Epistle to James 80-100 C.E. The Gospel of John 90-100 C.E. The Epistle of Jude 90-100 C.E. The Book of Revelation C. 96 C.E. 1, 2, and 3 John C. 100 C.E. 1 and 2 Timothy 90-120 C.E. Titus 90-120 C.E. 2 Peter 110-140 C.E.
{| class="wikitable"
|Date
|Approximated Dating
|-
|1 Thessalonians (Pauls letter)
|C. 49 C.E.
|-
|Galatians
|C. 49-51 C.E.
|-
|1 Corinthians
|C. 54-55 C.E.
|-
|2 Corinthians
|C. 55-56 C.E.
|-
|Romans
|C. 56-57 C.E.
|-
|Philemon
|55 C.E. or 61-63 C.E.
|-
|Philippians
|C. 59-62 C.E.
|-
|The Gospel of Mark
|C. 70 C.E.
|-
|2 Thessalonians
|70-90 C.E.
|-
|1 Peter
|70-110 C.E.
|-
|The Gospel of Matthew
|80-90 C.E.
|-
|The Gospel of Luke
|80-90 C.E.
|-
|The Acts of the Apostles
|80-90 C.E.
|-
|Colossians
|80-100 C.E.
|-
|Ephesians
|80-100 C.E.
|-
|The Epistle to the Hebrews
|80-100 C.E.
|-
|The Epistle to James
|80-100 C.E.
|-
|The Gospel of John
|90-100 C.E.
|-
|The Epistle of Jude
|90-100 C.E.
|-
|The Book of Revelation
|C. 96 C.E.
|-
|1, 2, and 3 John
|C. 100 C.E.
|-
|1 and 2 Timothy
|90-120 C.E.
|-
|Titus
|90-120 C.E.
|-
|2 Peter
|110-140 C.E.
|}
New Testament scholar Bart Ehrman also reports that the majority of scholars hypothesis there was also an earlier but lost Gospel known in scholarship 'Q' (named after the German word for “source” Quelle). to have existed, based off shared stories between the gospels of Luke and Matthew which do not come from the earliest Gospel of Mark, which may shared sayings appear to come from. It is believed they used Mark as a key source too.[6]
Bart Ehrman 2001 notes, through careful examination of the earliest and most likely authentic material (e.g. multiply and independently attested, dissimilar[15] and matching the context), we can see early Christians believed and saved the beliefs and saying of Jesus's imminent apocalyptic sayings [9]
Beginning with the earliest writings on Jesus, the authentic [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pauline_epistles letters of Paul], <s>(explain what Paul's letters are)</s> we see some explicit references
* 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 (~C.    49 C.E.): Paul writes, "According to the Lord’s word, we tell you    that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord,    will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord    himself will come down from heaven... And the dead in Christ will rise    first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up    together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air." Paul    includes himself and his contemporaries in the group who will be alive at    Christ's return.
* 1 Corinthians 7:29-31  (~C. 54-55 C.E.): Paul advises,    "What I mean, brothers and sisters, is that the time is short. From    now on those who have wives should live as if they do not... For this    world in its present form is passing away." This sense of urgency    indicates Paul believed the end was near.
This is continued in the Gospels, in fact, the very first words Jesus utters in the first gospel (Mark ~70CE) to be written are, “The time has come. The kingdom of God has come near. Repent and believe the good news” (Mark 1:15).
(Mark 13:3-31) …after describing what will happen in the apocalypse… 29 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it[d] is near, right at the door. 30 Truly I tell you
And he said to them, “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see that the kingdom of God has come with power.”
(Mark 9:1)
“Whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in '''this adulterous and sinful generation,''' of that one will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.… Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see that the Kingdom of God has come in power” (Mark 8:38–9:1).
This continues in the next Gospel, the Gospel of Matthew (~80-90CE).
(Matthew 10:23) When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.
(the Son of man was a cosmic judge for the hour[8])
(Matthew 16:28) “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
(Matthew 24:3-34)  31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.
(Matthew 3:2-10) 2 “Repent of your sins and turn to God, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near.. ..10 Even now the axe of God’s judgment is poised, ready to sever the roots of the trees. Yes, every tree that does not produce good fruit will be chopped down and thrown into the fire.
In Luke we continue to see early apocalyptic traditions, however as Bart Ehrman notes, we begin to see a 'de-apocolyting' of the message in Luke, [10] who edits earlier traditions from Mark and the earlier lost 'Q' source, so that it is ho longer Jesus's generation, but the next generation that the eschaton will arrive.[11]
(Luke 21:7-33)
…29 He told them this parable: “Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30 When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near. 32 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
(Luke 9:27) 27 “Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God.”
(Luke 12:40) 40 You also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.”
(you must be ready - even though it's an unexpected hour? - rather than just e.g. death)
These are very unlikely to be added by Christians after the fact, as of course didn't happen, so would not naturally be words one would want attributed to their saviour..
What we do see is in the The Gospel of John writing (~90-100CE), several decades later again, and after the 40-50 years later after the first and second generations began passing away, the message of Jesus is  de-apocalycised much further [12] In fact, the imminent apocalyptic message is completely absent in John, as it became more apparent it isn't happening, and so 'kingdom of heaven only now becomes a metaphor.[7] So we can see the development of a Jewish preacher who believed it was imminent changing over time - with the initial view of early Christian snot matching the Qur'anic portrayal who of course could not have preached this given God would know it was not the end of the world soon.
Later apocraphyla written after the Gospel of John denies it further, and explicitly condemn the view [13]


'''Jesus's Ethical teachings and their apocalyptic context'''
'''Jesus's Ethical teachings and their apocalyptic context'''
Line 416: Line 221:
''As a corollary, people should give all they have for the sake of others. In our earliest accounts Jesus not only urges indifference to the good things of this life (which, when seen from an apocalyptic perspective, are actually not all that good-since they too will be destroyed in the coming Kingdom), he rails against them, telling his followers to be rid of them. And thus, when a rich person comes to Jesus to ask about inheriting eternal life, upon finding out that he has already observed the commandments of God found in the Law he hasn't murdered, committed adultery, stolen, or borne false witness, for example-Jesus tells him, "You still lack one thing: go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven" (Mark 10:17-21).'' Ehrman, Bart D.. Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium (p. 168). Oxford University Press. AND Dale C. Allison Jr.. The Historical Christ and the Theological Jesus (Kindle Locations 834-837). Kindle Edition.  
''As a corollary, people should give all they have for the sake of others. In our earliest accounts Jesus not only urges indifference to the good things of this life (which, when seen from an apocalyptic perspective, are actually not all that good-since they too will be destroyed in the coming Kingdom), he rails against them, telling his followers to be rid of them. And thus, when a rich person comes to Jesus to ask about inheriting eternal life, upon finding out that he has already observed the commandments of God found in the Law he hasn't murdered, committed adultery, stolen, or borne false witness, for example-Jesus tells him, "You still lack one thing: go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven" (Mark 10:17-21).'' Ehrman, Bart D.. Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium (p. 168). Oxford University Press. AND Dale C. Allison Jr.. The Historical Christ and the Theological Jesus (Kindle Locations 834-837). Kindle Edition.  


Followers are essentially told not to save money, only focusing on preparing for heaven.
Followers are essentially told not to save money for long-term goals or the next generation, only focusing on preparing for heaven.


Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal; but store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. (Matthew 6:19-21, NRSV)
Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal; but store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. (Matthew 6:19-21, NRSV)
Line 480: Line 285:
He says instead:
He says instead:


''We should rather be looking for repeating patterns and contemplating the big picture. ture. We should trust first, if we are to trust at all, what is most likely to be trustworthy.''
''We should rather be looking for repeating patterns and contemplating the big picture. We should trust first, if we are to trust at all, what is most likely to be trustworthy.''


Dale C. Allison Jr.. The Historical Christ and the Theological Jesus (Kindle Locations 823-824). Kindle Edition.  
Dale C. Allison Jr.. The Historical Christ and the Theological Jesus (Kindle Locations 823-824). Kindle Edition.  
CPO675
537

edits

Retrieved from "http://wikiislamica.net/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/138444"

Navigation menu