User:CPO675/Sandbox 1: Difference between revisions

* the dual s'''<nowiki/>'''uffi<nowiki/>x/ending in '''<nowiki/>'ayni'''' -ين means there are two of them, as apposed to singular or plural (3 or more in Arabic).

There is another interpretation for this verse which critics argue is the only one to accurately fit this verse on a literal reading, which is discussed below. This fits a prevalent antiquity (and pre-antiquity) view that was present across the region, and also held in biblical cosmology and later Christian/Jewish exegesis at the time of Mohammad, that this refers to a somewhat magical cosmic ocean surrounding the Earth.

{{Quote|{{cite web| url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7817/jameroriesoci.135.1.19 | title=Some Cosmological Notions from Late Antiquity in Q 18:60–65: The Quran in Light of Its Cultural Context. Tommaso Tesei. American Oriental Society. Vol. 135, No. 1 (January-March 2015), pp. 19-32}}|...the root s-r-b is found in three other Quranic passages—sarāb (“mirage”) in 24:39 and 78:20, and sārib (“to go forth or away”) in 13:10—sarab is a Quranic hapax legomenon, that is, it appears only once. One way to understand saraban is to read it as the accusative of sarab, which means “tunnel” or “subterranean excavation.” Then the phrase in v. 61 can be translated as either “and it took its way in the sea by way of a subterranean excavation” or “and it took its way: a subterranean excavation in the sea,” depending on whether saraban is considered an accusative of circumstance (ḥāl) or a second direct object (the irst being sabīlahu) of the verb ittakhadha.}}

The puzzled commentators have given rise to a number of conflicting interpretations by later Muslims<ref>''[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/18.60 Tafsir ibn Kathir Verse 18:60-65].'' Ibn Kathir <abbr>c.</abbr> 1300 – 1373.</ref> starting from the mid-8th century exegesis, who often came up with miraculous/magical stories to link the dead fish escaping with a tunnel (a summary is provided in the article). Tommaso states that such attempts to relate the path the fish takes in the sea to passage on land are direct consequences of the apparent discordance between the meaning of the word sarab, “subterranean passage,” and the place where it is said to be found: the sea. It seems the later commentators did not have the full story it arose from. With the story matching a common motif of the water of life surrounding the Earth that could give life to the dead:{{Quote|{{cite web| url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7817/jameroriesoci.135.1.19 | title=Some Cosmological Notions from Late Antiquity in Q 18:60–65: The Quran in Light of Its Cultural Context. Tommaso Tesei. American Oriental Society. Vol. 135, No. 1 (January-March 2015), pp. 19-32}}|..starting with the word saraban which has puzzled commentators + fish regaining life: All we know is that the fish breaks loose near a rock at the junction of the two seas and that this event indicates to Moses that he has reached the goal of his journey. When examined in light of a legend concerning Alexander’s journey to the Land of the Blessed, during which he fails to bathe in the water of life, the episode acquires more sense, however. Specifically, the fish’s escape represents an allusion to the resurrection of a salt fish after Alexander’s cook washes it in the water of life. Muslim exegetes introduced some elements of this legend in their explanation of the narrative told in the Quran. In fact, the fish’s escape episode is usually related to the motif of the water of life.  Western scholars, too, almost unanimously consider this story of Alexander to be behind the Quranic account. The motif of the source of life reported in the legend concerning Alexander should certainly be understood in relation to the life-giving characteristics that Near Easterners attributed to the sweet waters of the rivers...}}Islamic scholar Gabriel Said Reynolds also notes this 'junction between two seas' (and other verses mentioning the two seas) as likely meaning the waters of the heaven. He also provides a translation of the relevant sections from the Alexander Song in his 2018 book ''"The Quran and Bible: Text and Commentary",''<ref>[https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300181326/the-quran-and-the-bible/ T''he Quran and Bible:Text and Commentary''], New Haven: Yale University Press, 2018. Gabriel Said Reynolds.</ref> which seems to have influenced the story (''again see [[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Alexander Romance]]''):

{{Quote|{{cite web| url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7817/jameroriesoci.135.1.19 | title=Some Cosmological Notions from Late Antiquity in Q 18:60–65: The Quran in Light of Its Cultural Context. Tommaso Tesei. American Oriental Society. Vol. 135, No. 1 (January-March 2015), pp. 19-32}}|When at v. 63 the Quran states that the fish “took its way in the sea in a marvellous way,” it evidently refers to its wondrously being revived upon contact with the miraculous water. In fact, the enigmatic episode acquires sense only if read in light of the dynamic described in the legend of the water of life, and the extreme vagueness with which the Quran describes the episode suggests that its audience was expected to be acquainted with the Alexander tale...}}

{{Quote|{{cite web| url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.7817/jameroriesoci.135.1.19 | title=Some Cosmological Notions from Late Antiquity in Q 18:60–65: The Quran in Light of Its Cultural Context. Tommaso Tesei. American Oriental Society. Vol. 135, No. 1 (January-March 2015), pp. 19-32}}|..This version of the story of Alexander reflects a simple idea that follows the literal understanding of Gen 2:10–14, namely, that the earthly paradise could be reached by following the course of one of the four rivers. In fact, sources confirm that during late antiquity it was widely held that paradise was a physical place situated on the other side of the ocean encircling the earth. In accordance with this concept, it was generally assumed that the rivers lowing from paradise passed under this ocean to reach the inhabited part of the world. ..

..identification of the water of life with the rivers of paradise, as confirmed by Philostorgius and, more significantly, in the Talmudic version of the Alexander legend, and, on the other hand, the idea that these rivers lowed underground beneath the sea from paradise to the inhabited earth, as several authors report—it seems very likely that saraban in Q 18:63 is meant to describe the subterranean passage under the sea that the fish takes once resurrected by the miraculous water of the paradisiacal rivers...

In Quranic cosmology, this expression is possibly intended to designate a place that has a specific role in the passage of the heavenly waters to earth. In light of the above, one can imagine majmaʿ al-baḥrayn as the place where the heavenly and terrestrial oceans meet, and from where the sweet waters reach the earth, by way of an underground course alluded to by the expression saraban..}}

{{Quote|{{cite web| url=https://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=1&tSoraNo=55&tAyahNo=19&tDisplay=yes&Page=2&Size=1&LanguageId=1 | title=Al-Ṭabarī Tafsir verse 55:19}}|...On the authority of his father, on the authority of Ibn Abbas, in his saying: {The two seas meet.} He said: <b>A sea in the sky and earth that meet every year.</b> Others said: He meant the Persian Sea and the Roman Sea...}}And speaks of a cosmic waters that surround the Earth and heavens elsewhere.

{{Quote|Cosmology Entry. Space in cosmological context. Encyclopaedia Of The Qur’an. pp. 445-446. Angelika Neuwirth. 2001.|‘The cryptic qur’anic statement about the two oceans has engendered diverse interpretations, mostly attempts to vindicate the geocentric Aristotelean-Ptolemaic world view. Only al-Tabari (d. 310/923) presents an interpretation in accordance with the qur'anic evidence, the image of a world swimming in an ocean and being covered by another ocean above the highest heaven. Al-Tabart (Ta/si, xxvii, 75, ad Q 55:19) states that the two oceans are located above the earth and around it respectively, the upper waters being fresh and sweet (‘adhbun furatun), the lower salty and bitter (milhun waqun).}}

[https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Abbas/18.60 Tanwîr al-Miqbâs min Tafsîr Ibn ‘Abbâs] and [https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/18.60 Tafsir Ibn Al Kathir] commentary on verse 18:60, while not stating this comes from a cosmic ocean (but rather a nearby spring), also relate this story to a rock which contains the fountain of life reviving a dead fish, which pulls motifs from the near-East view of a magical cosmic waters with life giving qualities. ''(Once again it is worth pointing out the obvious that there is no magic fountain or rock on Earth that can revive dead animals).''

Separately, in the story of Gog and Magog, also linked to [[Dhul-Qarnayn and the Alexander Romance|Dhul-Qarnayn/Alexander the Great]] and this tale, some Shi'i traditions locate the barrier (of Gog and Magog) either behind the Mediterranean, between the two mountains found there, whose rear part is the encircling sea/ocean of the world (Bahr al-muhit).<ref>van Donzel, Emeri; Schmidt, Andrea. ''Gog and Magog in Early Eastern Christian and Islamic Sources: Sallam's Quest for Alexander's Wall.'' Leiden: Brill. pp. 81. <nowiki>ISBN 9789004174160</nowiki>, 2010. The full book can be read on the ''Internet Archive [https://archive.org/details/gogandmagoginearlyeasternchristianandislamicsources/page/n98/mode/1up linked here].''</ref>

{{Quote|{{cite web| url=https://quranx.com/Tafsir/Kathir/25.51 | title=Tafsir Ibn Kathir on Verse 25:51}}|(And it is He Who has let free the two seas, this is palatable and sweet, and that is salty and bitter;) means, He has created the two kinds of water, sweet and salty. The sweet water is like that in rivers, springs and wells, which is fresh, sweet, palatable water. This was the view of Ibn Jurayj and of Ibn Jarir, and this is the meaning without a doubt, <b>for nowhere in creation is there a sea which is fresh and sweet.</b>}}

* https://archive.wikiislam.net/wiki/Meeting_of_Fresh_and_Salt_Water_in_the_Quran - ''Previous archived Wikiislam page on the former site covering this 'miracle'''