User talk:1234567: Difference between revisions

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Therefore we have to discard modern commentaries claiming that Zaynab was “in late middle age.”<ref>[http://www.ispi-usa.org/muhammad/appendix2.html/ Akhter, J. (2001). “The Prophet's Marriages and Wives”] in ''The Seven Phases of Prophet Muhammad's Life''. Chicago: ISPI.</ref> While the Arabs might not have considered her “a young woman,” this is relative. She was still young enough to have been Muhammad’s daughter.
Therefore we have to discard modern commentaries claiming that Zaynab was “in late middle age.”<ref>[http://www.ispi-usa.org/muhammad/appendix2.html/ Akhter, J. (2001). “The Prophet's Marriages and Wives”] in ''The Seven Phases of Prophet Muhammad's Life''. Chicago: ISPI.</ref> While the Arabs might not have considered her “a young woman,” this is relative. She was still young enough to have been Muhammad’s daughter.


===How Old was Juwayiriyah?===
===How Old was Juwayriyah?===


Juwayiriyah’s age is only mildly controversial.
Juwayriyah’s age is only mildly controversial.


{{Quote|{{Tabari|39|p. 184}}.|According to Juwayiriyah: “I was 20 years old when the Prophet married me.”}}
{{Quote|{{Tabari|39|p. 184}}.|According to Juwayriyah: “I was 20 years old when the Prophet married me.”}}


{{Quote|Bewley/Saad 8:85.|Juwayiriyah died in 50 AH when she was 65.}}
{{Quote|Bewley/Saad 8:85.|Juwayriyah died in 50 AH when she was 65.}}


If Juwayiriyah was 65 in 50 AH, the year in which she was 20 would have been 5 AH, and the year in which she was born would have been 16 BH, which fell between 9 January and 28 December 607. (Although there is a variant tradition that she did not die until 56 AH,<ref>{{Tabari|39|p. 184}}; Bewley/Saad 8:85.</ref> this tradition does not state her age at death, so we shall ignore it.) There is indeed some evidence for a wedding date of 5 AH.
If Juwayriyah was 65 in 50 AH, the year in which she was 20 would have been 5 AH, and the year in which she was born would have been 16 BH, which fell between 9 January and 28 December 607. (Although there is a variant tradition that she did not die until 56 AH,<ref>{{Tabari|39|p. 184}}; Bewley/Saad 8:85.</ref> this tradition does not state her age at death, so we shall ignore it.) There is indeed some evidence for a wedding date of 5 AH.


{{Quote|Ibn Hisham note 918.|He married Juwayiriyah bint al-Harith ibn Abi Dirar al-Khuza’iya, who was among the captives of the Mustaliq of Khuza’a tribe.}}
{{Quote|Ibn Hisham note 918.|He married Juwayriyah bint al-Harith ibn Abi Dirar al-Khuza’iya, who was among the captives of the Mustaliq of Khuza’a tribe.}}


{{Quote|Guillaume/Ishaq 490.|[The apostle] attacked the Mustaliq branch of the Khuza’a tribe … He went out and met them at a watering-place of theirs called al-Muraysi …}}
{{Quote|Guillaume/Ishaq 490.|[The apostle] attacked the Mustaliq branch of the Khuza’a tribe … He went out and met them at a watering-place of theirs called al-Muraysi …}}
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{{Quote|{{Tabari|39|p. 182}}.|The Prophet married Zaynab bint Jahsh on the first of Dhu’l-Qada 5 AH.}}
{{Quote|{{Tabari|39|p. 182}}.|The Prophet married Zaynab bint Jahsh on the first of Dhu’l-Qada 5 AH.}}


This supports a date of 5 AH, though earlier than the eleventh month of Dhu’l-Qada, for the marriage to Juwayiriyah.
This supports a date of 5 AH, though earlier than the eleventh month of Dhu’l-Qada, for the marriage to Juwayriyah.


Unfortunately, this cannot be right. For a start, Ibn Ishaq disagrees.
Unfortunately, this cannot be right. For a start, Ibn Ishaq disagrees.


{{Quote|Guillaume/Ishaq 490.|[The apostle] attacked the Mustaliq branch of the Khuza’a tribe in Shaaban 6 AH.}}
{{Quote|Guillaume/Ishaq 490.|[The apostle] attacked the Mustaliq branch of the Khuza’a tribe in '''Shaaban 6 AH.'''}}


Further, it is certain that the raid at al-Muraysi and consequent marriage to Juwayiriyah took place not before, but ''after'', Muhammad’s marriage to Zaynab bint Jahsh. As Aisha tells the story:
Further, it is certain that the raid at al-Muraysi and consequent marriage to Juwayriyah took place not before, but ''after'', Muhammad’s marriage to Zaynab bint Jahsh. As Aisha tells the story:


{{Quote|Guillaume/Ishaq 494.|[Muhammad] cast lots between his wives which of them should accompany him. He did this on the occasion of the raid on the Mustaliq tribe, and the lot fell on me, so the apostle took me out.}}
{{Quote|Guillaume/Ishaq 494.|[Muhammad] cast lots between his wives which of them should accompany him. He did this on the occasion of the raid on the Mustaliq tribe, and the lot fell on me, so the apostle took me out.}}
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This makes it very clear that Muhammad was already married to Zaynab at the time of the slander, which arose before the warriors had even arrived home from the al-Muraysi expedition. He married Zaynab in late 5 AH, so Ibn Ishaq’s date of 6 AH for the raid must be the correct one. It does seem odd that Aisha would give the wrong sequence for two such dramatic and personally painful events as the raid at al-Muraysi and the Prophet’s marriage to Zaynab. However, it is more likely that, when asked for a date, she accidentally named the wrong expedition than that, recalling the crisis of her life, she could not remember whether she had been veiled or who had been slandering her.
This makes it very clear that Muhammad was already married to Zaynab at the time of the slander, which arose before the warriors had even arrived home from the al-Muraysi expedition. He married Zaynab in late 5 AH, so Ibn Ishaq’s date of 6 AH for the raid must be the correct one. It does seem odd that Aisha would give the wrong sequence for two such dramatic and personally painful events as the raid at al-Muraysi and the Prophet’s marriage to Zaynab. However, it is more likely that, when asked for a date, she accidentally named the wrong expedition than that, recalling the crisis of her life, she could not remember whether she had been veiled or who had been slandering her.


If Juwayiriyah was 20 years old in 6 AH, she must have been born in 15 BH (between 29 December 607 and 17 December 608). That would make her only 64 not 65 at her death in 50 AH. This is not a serious discrepancy, but it does mean that one of these ages is only an approximation. On balance, the younger age is more likely to be correct. Young people are usually accurate about their ages (“When my husband was killed, I was definitely 20, not 19 or 21”) whereas the elderly are more likely to use round numbers (“I think this will be my final illness, for I’m already about 65”).
If Juwayriyah was 20 years old in 6 AH, she must have been born in 15 BH (between 29 December 607 and 17 December 608). That would make her only 64 not 65 at her death in 50 AH. This is not a serious discrepancy, but it does mean that one of these ages is only an approximation. On balance, the younger age is more likely to be correct. Young people are usually accurate about their ages (“When my husband was killed, I was definitely 20, not 19 or 21”) whereas the elderly are more likely to use round numbers (“I think this will be my final illness, for I’m already about 65”).


Nevertheless, to be on the safe side, we shall take a two-year range for Juwayiriyah’s birthdate, between January 607 and December 608. The median is 28 December 607. She was married in Shabaan 6 AH, a median date of 2 January 628.
Nevertheless, to be on the safe side, we shall take a two-year range for Juwayi]riyah’s birthdate, between January 607 and December 608. The median is 28 December 607. She was married in Shabaan 6 AH, a median date of 2 January 628.


:::'''Juwayiriyah’s Median Age = 20 years and 0 months.'''
:::'''Juwayriyah’s Median Age = 20 years and 0 months.'''
:::'''Muhammad’s Age = 56 years and 9 months.'''
:::'''Muhammad’s Age = 56 years and 9 months.'''
:::'''Age Difference = 36 years and 9 months.'''
:::'''Age Difference = 36 years and 9 months.'''


The theme is becoming repetitive: Juwayiriyah was young enough to be Muhammad’s granddaughter.
The theme is becoming repetitive: Juwayriyah was young enough to be Muhammad’s granddaughter.


===How Old was Safiyah?===
===How Old was Safiyah?===

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