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User:CPO675/Sandbox 1: Difference between revisions
→Punishment narrative miracles/destructions
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==== Seven people are kept sleeping for 309 years ==== | ==== Seven people are kept sleeping for 309 years ==== | ||
{{Main|Seven Sleepers of Ephesus in the Quran}}{{Quote|{{Quran|18|25}}|So they stayed in their Cave three hundred years, and (some) add nine (more).}} | {{Main|Seven Sleepers of Ephesus in the Quran}}{{Quote|{{Quran|18|25}}|So they stayed in their Cave three hundred years, and (some) add nine (more).}} | ||
==== The Earth will throw out things on judgement day ==== | |||
Islamic Commentaries explain this can include all kinds of things, including dead people (which in reality would have rotted and not necessarily be in the Earth (citation)), things to do with their crimes, treasure and metals, and others.<ref>See [https://quranx.com/tafsirs/99.2 commentaries on Quran 99:2]</ref> | |||
{{Quote|{{Quran|99|2}}|And brings forth the earth its burdens,}} | |||
==== Punishment narrative miracles/destructions ==== | ==== Punishment narrative miracles/destructions ==== | ||
Listed in Devlin Stewarts articles; https://www.researchgate.net/publication/382862079_Signs_for_Those_Who_Can_Decipher_Them_Ancient_Ruins_in_the_Quran | Listed in Devlin Stewarts articles; https://www.researchgate.net/publication/382862079_Signs_for_Those_Who_Can_Decipher_Them_Ancient_Ruins_in_the_Quran | ||
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==== Lightning ==== | ==== Lightning ==== | ||
The Qur'an states that lighting is a sign shown by god for fear(''khawfan'') and hope (''waṭamaʿan),'' however now we know that lightening is simply an electrical phenonoma caused by negative and positive charges in clouds or between the cloud and the ground build up and suddenly discharge, creating a bright flash,<ref name=":0">[https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-science-overview Understanding Lightning Science.] Safety. National Weather Service.</ref> (i.e. explained by science), it is difficult to see why it would give people hope. | The Qur'an states that lighting is a sign shown by god for fear (''khawfan'') and hope (''waṭamaʿan),'' however now we know that lightening is simply an electrical phenonoma caused by negative and positive charges in clouds or between the cloud and the ground build up and suddenly discharge, creating a bright flash,<ref name=":0">[https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-science-overview Understanding Lightning Science.] Safety. National Weather Service.</ref> (i.e. explained by science), it is difficult to see why it would give people hope. | ||
{{Quote|{{Quran|30|24}}|And among His Signs, He shows you the lightning, by way both of fear and of hope, and He sends down rain from the sky and with it gives life to the earth after it is dead}} | {{Quote|{{Quran|30|24}}|And among His Signs, He shows you the lightning, by way both of fear and of hope, and He sends down rain from the sky and with it gives life to the earth after it is dead}} | ||
=== Inanimate objects and animals worship God === | === Inanimate objects and animals worship God === | ||
Inanimate objects that do not have a consciousness capable of worshipping anything. (pre-Islamic parallel)? - ask academic | Inanimate objects that do not have a consciousness capable of worshipping anything. (pre-Islamic parallel)? - ask academic | ||
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Even their shadows do somehow. | Even their shadows do somehow. | ||
{{Quote|{{Quran|13|15}}|To Allah prostrates whoever there is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and their shadows at sunrise and sunset.}}Everything in the cosmos (presumably covering the vast amounts of near-empty space and elements) worships and | {{Quote|{{Quran|13|15}}|To Allah prostrates whoever there is in the heavens and the earth, willingly or unwillingly, and their shadows at sunrise and sunset.}}Everything in the cosmos (presumably covering the vast amounts of near-empty space and elements) worships and prostrates before him, as does every animal and angel, all allegedly fearing God ({{Quran|16|49-50}} {{Quran|22|18}}), including the birds, which do so while flying ({{Quran|24|41}}), and trees ({{Quran|55|6}}). | ||
The Qur'an states that lighting is a sign shown by god for fear (''khawfan'') and hope (''waṭamaʿan),'' however now we know that lightening is simply an electrical phenonoma caused by negative and positive charges in clouds or between the cloud and the ground build up and suddenly discharge, creating a bright flash,<ref name=":0" /> (i.e. explained by science), it is difficult to see why it would give people hope. | The Qur'an states that lighting is a sign shown by god for fear (''khawfan'') and hope (''waṭamaʿan),'' however now we know that lightening is simply an electrical phenonoma caused by negative and positive charges in clouds or between the cloud and the ground build up and suddenly discharge, creating a bright flash,<ref name=":0" /> (i.e. explained by science), it is difficult to see why it would give people hope. | ||
{{Quote|{{Quran|30|24}}|And among His Signs, He shows you the lightning, by way both of fear and of hope, and He sends down rain from the sky and with it gives life to the earth after it is dead}} | {{Quote|{{Quran|30|24}}|And among His Signs, He shows you the lightning, by way both of fear and of hope, and He sends down rain from the sky and with it gives life to the earth after it is dead}} | ||
==== Inanimate objects refused the task of being Gods followers, but humans accepted | ==== Inanimate objects refused the task of being Gods followers, but humans accepted ==== | ||
It is hard to know what was meant by this or why Allah would offer an inanimate object with no biology for consciousness (unless you think they're magic pegs in the Earth) that he already knew couldn't answer the task, nor how they refused it. (look at tafsirs (some such as al-Jalalayn say they could speak at that time: https://quranx.com/tafsirs/33.72, Ibn Kathir doesn't mention that but took it literally). | It is hard to know what was meant by this or why Allah would offer an inanimate object with no biology for consciousness (unless you think they're magic pegs in the Earth) that he already knew couldn't answer the task, nor how they refused it. (look at tafsirs (some such as al-Jalalayn say they could speak at that time: https://quranx.com/tafsirs/33.72, Ibn Kathir doesn't mention that but took it literally). | ||
it is hard to see why humans would accept this task with the risk of hell being involved, given our natural propensity for risk aversion.<ref>Kahneman, Daniel, and Amos Tversky. “Prospect Theory: An Analysis of Decision under Risk.” ''Econometrica'', vol. 47, no. 2, 1979, pp. 263–91. ''JSTOR'', <nowiki>https://doi.org/10.2307/1914185</nowiki>. Accessed 14 Feb. 2025. | it is hard to see why humans would accept this task with the risk of hell being involved, given our natural propensity for risk aversion as a species.<ref>Kahneman, Daniel, and Amos Tversky. “Prospect Theory: An Analysis of Decision under Risk.” ''Econometrica'', vol. 47, no. 2, 1979, pp. 263–91. ''JSTOR'', <nowiki>https://doi.org/10.2307/1914185</nowiki>. Accessed 14 Feb. 2025. | ||
See also: Kahneman, D. (2011). ''Thinking, fast and slow.'' ''Chapter 26: Prospect Theory.''</ref> | See also: Kahneman, D. (2011). ''Thinking, fast and slow.'' ''Chapter 26: Prospect Theory.''</ref> | ||
Tafsirs often say this applied to Adam - unsure why it would therefore apply to everyone? | '''''Tafsirs often say this applied to Adam - unsure why it would therefore apply to everyone?''''' | ||
{{Quote|{{Quran|33|72}}|Indeed We presented the Trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, but they refused to undertake it and were apprehensive of it; but man undertook it. Indeed he is most unjust and ignorant.}} | {{Quote|{{Quran|33|72}}|Indeed We presented the Trust to the heavens and the earth and the mountains, but they refused to undertake it and were apprehensive of it; but man undertook it. Indeed he is most unjust and ignorant.}} | ||
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{{Quote|{{Quran|41|11}}|Then He turned towards the heaven when it was smoke, saying to it and to the earth, ‘Submit, willingly or unwillingly.’ They both responded, ‘We submit willingly.’"}} | {{Quote|{{Quran|41|11}}|Then He turned towards the heaven when it was smoke, saying to it and to the earth, ‘Submit, willingly or unwillingly.’ They both responded, ‘We submit willingly.’"}} | ||
*Moreover, all the creatures in heaven or on earth, as a sign of their devotion to the creator, perform this act directly or by means of their shadows (Q 7:206; 13:15; 16:4.8-9; 22:18; 55:6). {{Quran|7|206}}, {{Quran|13|15}} (shadows inc), {{Quran|16|4-9}} (check), | |||
* Moreover, all the creatures in heaven or on earth, as a sign of their devotion to the creator, perform this act directly or by means of their shadows (Q 7:206; 13:15; 16:4.8-9; 22:18; 55:6). {{Quran|7|206}}, {{Quran|13|15}} (shadows inc), {{Quran|16|4-9}} (check), | |||
* Wind by allah - pre-Islamic allah poetry parallel in Sinai paper? | * Wind by allah - pre-Islamic allah poetry parallel in Sinai paper? | ||
* Mountains and earth couldn't deal with task of being human? Worshipping or something they were asked? {{Quran|33|72}} | * Mountains and earth couldn't deal with task of being human? Worshipping or something they were asked? {{Quran|33|72}} | ||
* he animals (every dabba, Q 16:49; 22:18) {{Quran|16|49}} {{Quran|22|18}}worship God by prostrating themselves, including the birds, which do so while flying (Q 24:41). {{Quran|24|41}} | * he animals (every dabba, Q 16:49; 22:18) {{Quran|16|49}} {{Quran|22|18}}worship God by prostrating themselves, including the birds, which do so while flying (Q 24:41). {{Quran|24|41}} | ||
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{{Quran|9|26}} (angels you can't see help) | |||
“You did not kill them, but God killed them, and you didn’t shoot the arrows when you shot, but God shot them.” {{Quran|8|17}} | |||
“Allah had helped you at Badr, when ye were a contemptible little force; then fear Allah, that you may show your gratitude. Remember, you said to the Faithful, ‘Is it not enough for you that Allah should help you with three thousand angels, sent down?’ Nay, but if you remain firm, and act aright, even if the enemy should rush here on you suddenly, your Lord would help you with five thousand angels, making a terrific onslaught. Allah made it but a message of hope for you, and an assurance to your hearts. There is no help except from Allah. The Exalted, the Wise.” (3: 123-126) | |||
* Simialr to pre-sialmic potery (sinai citation) wind is described as being sent by God, rather than scientific process off https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/wind/ predictability. | |||
* And bring down rain? ''Rain-Giver, Bone-Breaker, Score-Settler: Allāh in Pre-Quranic Poetry,'' New Haven, Connecticut: American Oriental Society, 2019. Essay 15. Nicolai Sinai. (https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:977914cb-d783-4949-aed4-f0b6c2eaa562/files/m34f1a166246ec073a79d42ea09d9cc1a) | |||
(It is) God who sends the winds, and it stirs up a cloud, and We drive it to some barren land, and by means of it give the earth life after its death. So (too) is the raising up. (Q 35:9) | |||
* ships that drown | |||
* Birds held up by God & parallel | |||
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==== Not random cause and effect; ==== | ==== Not random cause and effect; ==== | ||
{{Main|Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Predestination}} | {{Main|Qur'an, Hadith and Scholars:Predestination}} | ||